macandally

I am with S&C on this and always have been. We live in a culture where we want everything yesterday, fast food, coffee shops, chip and pin, nobody wants to wait for anything anymore. I think the only thing Houllier was guilty of was trying to change things too fast, but if anyone thinks that changes arent needed to move the club forward then I am not sure of their thought process.

McLeish is a horrific appointment and the fact he reportedly said that he was "the only man brave enough to take the job" winds me up. Hughes would have come, Sanches Florez would have come and both would have been better appointments.

I will be surprised if McLeish is here at the end of the season. Pacifying a changing room of overpaid and underworked supposed pro's is not enough to maintain a job, he needs to deliver and the quotes from today are two fingers up at the Villa faithful to me. A bad workmen always blames his tools and McLeish is doing that already. Someone like Moyes would eak out peformances from this team.

I hope that Gus Poyet is given a chance to manage a club of our stature. He is young enough to identify with the younger players, played at the highest levels and appears to have a modern and progressive coaching philosophy. It would be a medium to long term project (5 year plan, remember that!) but it might just give us a chance of achieving something in the future over and above mid table mediocrity.

Before the money mongers start interfering, how much have Arsenal spent in maintaining a constant champions league push over the last 10 years?

I really enjoy reading this thread and the rewriting of history in regards to Houllier by a couple of posters. What makes it so enjoyable though is the fact that the over the hill, useless, disrespectful clown who served up some of the most gutless tripe I have had the displeasure to witness in my 30 odd years following this great club is gone and isn't ever coming back.

Amen to that.

Houllier was a disaster and a disgrace to the club. I hope he has a happy retirement but that it is as far away from this club as possible.

If he were still in charge the man would have achieved this season what he nearly did last season - take us down.

McLeish for me, every time.

No he wasnt, talk about talking shite.

At least you have matchdays to look forward to now, battling for that all important draw, 9 men behind the ball and waiting for bent to pull the trigger from a Collins punt, I mean through ball.................good times............

Yeh, but you just knew we'd get all this crap as soon as McLeish lost his first game, didn't you.

I expect some people have had their posts ready in draft since the day he was appointed.

If that was directed at me, I think I anticipated this type of situation and wrote about it on here before our first game.

I cannot see how anyone failed to see what is coming. We have a manager who cannot manage, who was "poached" from our nearest rivals and who has an abysmal record in the premier league.

Want in gods name was anyone expecting? A surge to the champions league? Get real.

Those who tried to justify the appointment of this guy, or who somehow feel our position is satisfactory are now digging up the likes of "posts ready in draft since the day he was appointed" when actually, there are some that saw this for what it was from day one. A mindless decision.

In my opinion, we were battered at Everton and if you think we put some monumental Churchillian effort into getting back into it when 2-1 down you must be watching a different game to me.

That chance came from a moment of quality from Albrighton and a good finish from Gabby against the run of play. We didnt have them pinned back, they werent there for the taking, it was fortuitous to say the least.

If you take solace in that being fighting spirit, then good luck to you, your going to need it.

No one mentioned a Churchillian effort, just a fighting spirit. But they way you put it I'm surprised the players bothered to try and equalise then or even defend whilst getting said battering.

If you dont think that coming from behind twice in any game is showing a fighting spirit then I guess you will always be one to moan.

Then I guess I will always be the one to moan, particularly when we lack any shape, cohesion and desire to be winning games.

To me, where are currently stuck in an abyss, not moving forward, slowly getting sucked down. No focus for the club, no plan apart from cut wage bill, it is aimless shite.

Slowly getting sucked down to where? We're 6th. There are 14 teams that haven't started as well as us. Jesus Christ, what will your reaction be when we actually lose a game? Surely you can see that 'we are currently stuck in an abyss' is absurd?

Get some perspective, it could be alot bloody worse - my family are Sheffield Wednesday fans!

OK John, prehaps you could give the reasons I am missing to be cheerful.

Where are we going as a club, what are the players striving for?

I'm not saying we should be cheering from the rooftops, but it's far too early to be quite so downbeat. It's very early days and this level of criticism isn't merited, being 6th in the league and undefeated.

I hate to disappoint you John, but I was this downbeat the moment that we made this managerial appointment. I struggled to see how anything good at all could come from it and so far, I have not been disappointed.

You see 1 loss in 6 games as a steady start, I look at who we played and how we played them and it worries me immensely. This was our easiest start for years and yet we have failed to take advantage of that.

In my opinion, we were battered at Everton and if you think we put some monumental Churchillian effort into getting back into it when 2-1 down you must be watching a different game to me.

That chance came from a moment of quality from Albrighton and a good finish from Gabby against the run of play. We didnt have them pinned back, they werent there for the taking, it was fortuitous to say the least.

If you take solace in that being fighting spirit, then good luck to you, your going to need it.

No one mentioned a Churchillian effort, just a fighting spirit. But they way you put it I'm surprised the players bothered to try and equalise then or even defend whilst getting said battering.

If you dont think that coming from behind twice in any game is showing a fighting spirit then I guess you will always be one to moan.

Then I guess I will always be the one to moan, particularly when we lack any shape, cohesion and desire to be winning games.

To me, where are currently stuck in an abyss, not moving forward, slowly getting sucked down. No focus for the club, no plan apart from cut wage bill, it is aimless shite.

Slowly getting sucked down to where? We're 6th. There are 14 teams that haven't started as well as us. Jesus Christ, what will your reaction be when we actually lose a game? Surely you can see that 'we are currently stuck in an abyss' is absurd?

Get some perspective, it could be alot bloody worse - my family are Sheffield Wednesday fans!

OK John, prehaps you could give the reasons I am missing to be cheerful.

Where are we going as a club, what are the players striving for?

In my opinion, we were battered at Everton and if you think we put some monumental Churchillian effort into getting back into it when 2-1 down you must be watching a different game to me.

That chance came from a moment of quality from Albrighton and a good finish from Gabby against the run of play. We didnt have them pinned back, they werent there for the taking, it was fortuitous to say the least.

If you take solace in that being fighting spirit, then good luck to you, your going to need it.

No one mentioned a Churchillian effort, just a fighting spirit. But they way you put it I'm surprised the players bothered to try and equalise then or even defend whilst getting said battering.

If you dont think that coming from behind twice in any game is showing a fighting spirit then I guess you will always be one to moan.

Then I guess I will always be the one to moan, particularly when we lack any shape, cohesion and desire to be winning games.

To me, where are currently stuck in an abyss, not moving forward, slowly getting sucked down. No focus for the club, no plan apart from cut wage bill, it is aimless shite.

The players show absolutely no signs of fighting for him, if anything, performances have been dull and uninspired with little by way of fighting spirit.

Twice behind at Everton

Did we at any stage look like we wanted to go out and win that game?

We just dont look like we have the desire to go and win games, full stop.

But you said about fighting.

If they didn't want to fight for him or the team, they would have rolled over and lost?

The simple fact is that if Mcleish wasn't the ex Small Heath manager a lot more people would be saying, give him time.

A lot are also biased based on his past track record, which is obviously not great.

But everyone deserves time to succeed or fail imo.

In my opinion, we were battered at Everton and if you think we put some monumental Churchillian effort into getting back into it when 2-1 down you must be watching a different game to me.

That chance came from a moment of quality from Albrighton and a good finish from Gabby against the run of play. We didnt have them pinned back, they werent there for the taking, it was fortuitous to say the least.

If you take solace in that being fighting spirit, then good luck to you, your going to need it.

The players show absolutely no signs of fighting for him, if anything, performances have been dull and uninspired with little by way of fighting spirit.

Twice behind at Everton

Did we at any stage look like we wanted to go out and win that game?

We just dont look like we have the desire to go and win games, full stop.

Seriously this is a knee jerk reaction thread if ever i saw one and surprisingly another go at the board.

McLeish will be here next season and the players like him and are fighting for him which didnt happen under the last manager and their will be a lot worse teams in the league come end of season

Zatman this site is all about opinions so please dont take this the wrong way, but I disagree 100% with every aspect of that post.

McLeish was the wrong man from the outset and was brought in by somebody on the board who needs slapping.

If he is still here next season, I will seriously fear for our premier league status.

The players show absolutely no signs of fighting for him, if anything, performances have been dull and uninspired with little by way of fighting spirit.

McLeish is probably about the only decent manager

I stopped reading there!

It may come to the point that we cannot afford not to.

My next question would be, can we afford to get rid of Paul Faulkner.

People who are hiding behind this "unbeaten start" mantra really are sticking their head in the stand.

We have been ordinary since pre-season, the system does not match the personnel, there is no plan B and our England international striker may as well sit and watch the game from the holte end for the service he is getting.

There is no drive, ambition, motivation, desire, hunger or willingness in that team. It is just not there, at all. That comes from the manager but is a testiment to the players.

ONeill - Holiday camp mentality with more time off than Jon Waynes safety catch. Acceptable due to results.

Houllier - Professional attitude, fitness program, training schedule- Unacceptable due to player revolt

McLeish - God knows but nobody on the playing staff appears to give two figs for AVFC.

Pees me off no end.

I am going to go left field here and say that we should get through this season and get Gus Poyet in, strip and rebuild this squad with some youth and enthusiasm and hope to god we can have some sense of medium to long term direction.

The bottom line is that just as nobody wanted Houllier, nobody wanted McLeish

I wanted Houllier, definitely didnt want McLeish.

Was always a dead man walking.

Dead man walking.

How people can justify this guy managing our club is beyond me.

Meanwhile back to Delph, who appears to be the new target of abuse.

Stop playing the kid as a holding midfielder, he is not experienced enough to play the Xavi Alonso role and too lightweight to hold the area in front of the defence. We knew we needed a DM all summer and brought in bloody Jenas, a box to box mid.

We have real problems in midfield and to give us some balance, we should play a solid three in there, but its finding out which three as half the midfielders we have are the luxury "link men". Bannan, Ireland and to some degree Delph would prefer to play this role as arguably would Jenas. That leaves our wide men and Petrov who is good for 60 minutes.

Would like to see:

-------------------Petrov-------------------------

-----------Delph-------------Jenas---------------

Albrighton---------------------------------NZogbia

-------------------Gabby--------------------------

Let Bent get over his injury as its starting to look like he has a must play clause!

Petrov and Delph can't play together as a 2. Delph is shit, it should have been him subbed instead of Petrov.

Petrov and Ireland in a 2 man CM.

That would just have very little defensive energy.

Delph is not looking too hot because that muppet McLeish is asking a playmaker to play as a DCM - that's just not his game!

Hallelujah.

Good player, wrong position and acting as Petrovs legs which is allowing Petrov to wonder into areas that usually he would not be fit enough to recover from.

Worked against Everton, doesnt usually.

When you realise we are a selling club these days and have not got the cash of the big boys, Mcleish is doing OK with an average prem squad and wea are still unbeaten, look at wolves today, that's a team that the supporters should worry about, no manager could make a top 8 side out of this squad, someone of you need a good word with yourselfe...jeeesus

I was going to take the time to construct a response, but realistically you are in denial. Look at who we played, lower mid table teams at best. If you remember, that wolves team got a 0-0 at our place.

Get your head out your arse FFS. Unbeaten crap!

What a tosser you are mate, Newcastle are 4th in the prem you idiot and are not a bad side, we have not lost yet and are 7th, WTF do you expect, we have lost our best players and have an average prem side...numpty.

Thanks for pointing out we had lost our best players, that fact had escaped me!! You have the **** cheek to call me a tosser when you think Newcastle are a good side and that bore draws against relegation fodder are satisfactory. **** wake up.

You want to satisfy yourself with scraping draws against mid to bottom of the table teams and justify that as progress then fill you boots. To me, you are delusional. I expect a manager who knows how to coach and can get the best out of the following:

Given (Irish International)

Hutton (Scottish International)

Dunne (Irish International)

Collins (Welsh International)

Warnock (England International)

Delph (U21 International)

Petrov (Bulgarian Captain)

NZogbia (French International)

Gabby (England International)

Bannan (Scottish International)

Bent (England International)

Its not a great team, but there is enough attacking quality there to beat the likes of Newcastle, Wolves, etc etc. They just need proper coaching by someone who knows his arse from his elbow. That sort of rules out McLeish.

Play them either side of Delph and that would be some midfield!!

Delph has quality, trouble is, its swamped with an aging Petrov and lightweight Bannan/Ireland next to him. He is the physical prescence, on his own, in a four man midfield. Thats never going to work.

When you realise we are a selling club these days and have not got the cash of the big boys, Mcleish is doing OK with an average prem squad and wea are still unbeaten, look at wolves today, that's a team that the supporters should worry about, no manager could make a top 8 side out of this squad, someone of you need a good word with yourselfe...jeeesus

I was going to take the time to construct a response, but realistically you are in denial. Look at who we played, lower mid table teams at best. If you remember, that wolves team got a 0-0 at our place.

Get your head out your arse FFS. Unbeaten crap!

Having watched another 90 minutes of dross I am confused and therefore have to ask:

Do our players actually know each other?

Do we have a game plan?

Do the players actually want to play for McLeish because it doesnt appear so?

Do the players know what McLeish wants them to do as it doesnt appear so?

I have never liked McLeish, which I will not hide, but he needs to go and soon. Ridiculous appointment, dire football and all credit to Pardew as he had a weaker team playing better football. Newcastle moved the ball well, were fluid with their movement and made us look like we are, ordinary.

Played off the park on our own patch.

Rubbish

I was scathing at half time and in fairness, we were lucky to even be in the game after 45 minutes.

Half time team talk worked, but we need to compete for 90, not just 20 minutes per game.

Very lucky and still cannot see what McLeish brings with respect to offensive play. We lucked clueless for most of the game. Screamer again from Petrov (about all he did) and one quality delivery for the goal, all game.

Sorry, Petrov's been alright for me but Delph is having a nightmare. We need to hang onto the ball and stop playing long balls as soon as we get it. We are giving them way too much space.

I'm usually one to find positives but apart from Bannan who has been tidy, they have all been terrible, including Bent who's first touch goes further than a Jean Makoun pass!

Yeah, much prefer to watch Petrov sat in his comfort zone of a 10 yard circle whilst the rest of the midfield have to work around him.

Petrov is awful, the midfield as a unit, awful. One pass, two pass, lump it forward. Every time. Not interplay as there is no movement, no idea how to progress the play forward apart from lumping it.

I think McLeish just buys attackers and expects them to turn up and do their stuff. Is there actually any coaching going on at the club?

I hope McLeish introduces his forward line to the rest of the team, that would be a start.

Dire, just what I expected from this dick. Keep your defense, whats the point if the rest of the team dont appear to know each other.

Threaders, what are we, four games in. If this guy is in this job at Christmas it will be a joke.

I cant think of one strength Houllier had

I cant think of one valid point you have made against Houllier to support your case?

It is obvious you dont like him, fair enough. There are those that bother to try to put across reasoning for their stance, other than, "I dont like him". I am wondering though, why bother.