ozvillafan
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Posts posted by ozvillafan
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CC > Healers > DPS just as Team Setup > Gear > Skill
If you cant reach your enemy in an arena, well then its you tactic which is wrong, not the spec or class. Thats also why you have teams who base their attack in riding in, burst and hoping to catch people by suprise.
You can just as easily Frost Shock to snare targets aswell.
Oh puh-lease.
Let me guess - you played enhancement for as long as you played resto, right? That makes you an expert then, right?
It's not stretching to say you have played every class in every spec and it goes without saying that you know more on the subject than anybody else does.
For your information:
- Frost shock is on diminishing returns. Its on the GCD along with every other shaman talent, including totems. If you cannot counter-CC it to keep the enhance shaman away (even if they charge in) then you need to learn to play.
- Charging in works fine, if the other team has no warrior and no CC'ers. You can guess how many times that happens. (Hamstring, MS, Pounce, Sap, Gouge, Kidney shot, Charge, Bash, Sheep and any flavour of fear. Remember, I'm charging in on a target - I dont have time to drop both grounding and tremor).
And please, tell me exactly how many enhancement shamans there are in the top rated arena teams of any size.
Now why is that? Is it:
"Team Setup > Gear > Skill"
or is it
"If you cant reach your enemy in an arena, well then its you tactic which is wrong, not the spec or class."
I'll give you a clue - it has NOTHING to do with tactics or skill.
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More balancing by forums it seems.
After counterspell and the global cooldown, resilience on dots, MS on drains, 'tax' removed on Frostbolts and Fireballs and threat reduction for Paladins the reaction from Shammies has lead to Blizz withdrawing the hard nerf.
Every time Blizz react to a forum campaign they are just giving people motivation to do it again and again and again! (link)
Spoken like a true warlock. And this is exactly why shamans rampage the forums.
You are conveniently forgetting that the reason shaman are NOT given any CC is because of 3 things:
1) Earth shock interrupts
2) Frost shock snare (currently on DR)
3) Grounding totem
Our ability to drop/cast these 3 things on (relatively) short cooldowns and heal meant CC would make us overpowered - at least that's what the devs tell us.
Now comes 2.3:
- Frost shock is off DR, seeing as how EVERY other snare did not suffer from DR. Hooray!
- Grounding totem is now destroyed upon redirecting ANY spell (so why it still pulses every 10 seconds is beyond me)
- Earth shock becomes useless after the first cast for 13.5 seconds
- Our burst tree (elemental) gets a massive burst nerf.
... and we STILL have no CC.
The ignorance you display about the shaman class is shared by blizzard. That's why we get upset. These changes essentially broke the class in PvP - a class which is already gimped. It needed to be reverted to make it possible for us to do something in PvP outside bloodlust and healing.
Meanwhile, Kalgan gets warriors Improved Intercept talent swapped with weapon mastery. Hardly surprising when you look at the weapon mastery nerf and Kalgan's warrior's talents
Go figure.
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No idea what you are getting worked up about. Enchancement shamans can do stupid damage which ive experienced both on my warlock and my priest, but the Shaman vs priest fight was very unbalanced and no intended imbalance, which is why they are fixing it.
If you only kill priests it might be your gear though. Playing with good geared enhancement shamans in BG's and arenas, and with a dedicated healer they hammer through **** everything with ridiculous burst damage.
You may have played resto - but you've never played enhancement.
I am a good geared enhancement shaman. And I dont only kill priests - but its the only class I rarely (if ever) lose too, along with other shaman.
2-handed only rips thru people with no resilience. Outside that, it's useless. If it does "ridiculous burst damage", then you need to gear up.
And spam healing is great (I personally have a priest shielding and healing me in 5v5) but useless if you cant reach your target or spend your time kited. Remember that shaman have:
- no way to enter melee other than walk up to you
- no CC
- no anti-CC (outside trinkets and that awful pre-emptive, easily dispelled, range limited, pulsing tremor totem).
If I manage to beat someone, it's for 1 of 2 reasons:
1) I massively outgear them
2) They dont bother either CC'ing or focus firing me.
If you have a problem with enhance in arena, then I'm afraid you have CC'ers that have no clue.
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Yes like i already said. Without beeing able to insta counter anything or CC, while beeing purged you are ****. Enhancement needed a nerf against priests atleast. It was an unbalanced fight which never was supposed to be that unbalanced.
You're kidding right? You're the only class I can consistently take down, outside other shaman. Nobody else has a problem with enhance shaman. Period.
But shaman should never beat anyone, amiright?
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Well i usually have time to hit panic buttons when a rogue nails me. I can fear, trinket insta or something similar. With a shaman its ride/run/jump whatever windfury 1 million damage, no casts, no workable CC etc.
Maybe he was just similarly geared and had you focus fired.
Seriously - there is a class that actually has a problem with Shaman in PvP? Windfury, eh? So not just shaman - but the worst shaman PvP spec?
You wouldn't be the only clothy class with long cast times, would you?
Nevermind. Blizz is fixing that. Shaman are obviously still OP and should not be able to kill anyone 1 on 1. After all, the game is balanced around 5v5, right?
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Yeah, but it wont affect individual Priests, Mages or Warlocks as much as our silence effects are on a longer cooldown than the diminishing timer.
Sure, it will stop triple cloth teams just taking out a healer in the arena but it will screw all aspects of Shammy PvP. One of the reasons Shammies have next to no CC because of their ability to lock down casters (ES and Grounding juggling) which is now gone.
Dont get me started.
Too late.
Banned from the US shaman forums for questioning random deletion of threads that mentioned the words:
"Shaman", "2.3", "Diminishing Returns" and "Earth Shock".
This could get ugly.
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Yeah, but it wont affect individual Priests, Mages or Warlocks as much as our silence effects are on a longer cooldown than the diminishing timer.
Sure, it will stop triple cloth teams just taking out a healer in the arena but it will screw all aspects of Shammy PvP. One of the reasons Shammies have next to no CC because of their ability to lock down casters (ES and Grounding juggling) which is now gone.
Dont get me started.
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While not representative of this forum, this is soooooo Wow forums:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFk0wMNuhvI
Apologies if posted before.
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Dame, now your annoying me. Opinions pretty please
Funny - I think you got opinions.
They are both good. In fact, there are 7 other good classes.
Work out which playstyle you prefer: Casting spells, healing, melee, tanking or a bit of all these (hybrid) and then choose your class accordingly.
There is no wrong or right. Only choice.
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Wowstats for latest Maggy and Lurker kill
I reckon we'll e doing Gruul, Maggy and Lurker in one night from next week.
Very nice! Gratz
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Casters and healers still need their weapons for dps and healing though, just because they don't often phsically hit stuff with it, doesn't make it any less vital.
Sorry - late back to this thread.
Get a healer/caster and take away their weapons. Can they still do their job?
Now do the same with a rogue or warrior (or even an Enhance shaman).
That's why melee weapons are cheaper.
You cant take weapon cost and logically conclude that "blizzard favour melee" while conveniently forgetting that they had to remove 360 degree cleaves and sweeping strikes and change the glancing blow penalty because it was proving pointless bringing melee classes outside tanks to raids/instances.
And yes - Enhance shamans lose going toe-to-toe with warriors/rogues unless they outgear them. And that is how it should be.
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You also have to love how Blizzard continue to favour melee and especially rogues.
Favour melee? Pfft.
Melee classes do their damage through their weapons. Healers and casters do not. As such you'd expect the weapons for melee classes to be <= healers weapons in terms of cost.
Even so:
- Rogue Arena MH + OH = 3750 pts
- Warrior Arena 2H = 3750 pts
- Priest Arena Gavel + OH = 4275 pts
- Enhancement Shaman Arena MH + OH = 5250 pts.
Go figure.
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Should have seen me and Tarj defending the FW graveyard in AV tonight. Us and a couple of others lasted bloody ages in a full on zerg.
Lucky for you there wasn't an equally geared rogue and druid focus firing you.
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Not really. They are probably just shit players.
rofl
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TRL - I'll be honest. I didnt bother reading your latest exposition. There's little point.
I'll let you go on believing you know everything about the class and arena while Riss, si and myself continue to win arena games against druids/rogues.
Actually I had a blast last night in AB against a Rogue, druid and (lawl) pally at the mine. Focus fired the entire time. Gouge/kidneyshot/cyclone/rooted/kicked/HoJ (but not blinded, for some reason) while the others around me eventually picked them off. We never got the flag (got farmed, basically) and it took 1 mana tide totem, a mana pot, and them rezzing 3 times before they finally managed to kill me. It was a hoot. They were /beg emoting in the end.
But then you'll rubbish that as them being undergeared, not knowing how to play or me spinning bullshit. Maybe they were undergeared noobs - I dont know. Best fun I've had being focus fired, though.
As for the Aussies - you played a very good spoiling/possession game and the Aussies crumbled. I still remember John Eales kicking a goal from the sideline in pouring rain after the siren in NZ to win the Bledisloe cup - despite not being the best kicker in the world.
What I wouldn't give to have a captain with that sort of nerve again.
Oh, and Johnny missed a few! What are you going to do for points now?
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Haha you said all that, but answered nothing.
You said i never had played a resto shaman, i had. You were wrong.
You never said ive played a shaman healing in the arena. I had. You were wrong again.
And when you are healing yourself under a stealth class zerg like that, while your partner is cc'ed, you wont be able to stand it unless you have fuckloads of resilience.
You wont be able to heal, so wether you think you can or not isnt relevant. Stealth classes are DESIGNED to make you UNABLE TO HEAL.
Yes all classes benefit from stamina and resilience, but none as much as healers. Tell me, do you target warriors in the arena? SL locks? Frost Mages? No, you target healers. Because a healer makes or breaks the fight. Ergo. resilience survivabiliy is a fuckload more important for a healer then any other class.
Thanks for coming. Tune in for next class of enlightenment.
No one can ever beat you in an argument, can they? Because when you are faced with defeat, you change the parameters.
- I argued that a warrior/shaman team does not have as hard a time against a druid/rogue team as you expect. I even went through the scenarios of the fight.
- You asserted that we have absolutely no chance, despite 3 others telling you otherwise.
- I said that mail, a shield and earthshield made a huge difference against physical attacks. I asked if you played the class since your original statement hinted that you may not have. You said you had. Great.
- You then repeated your assertment that we had absolutely no chance. You based this, I assume, on your experience playing with a shaman.
- I then explained I had more experience than you at said class. PvE, PvP, Arena - you name it. I then repeated - more in depth - the things that can be done with a shaman. You returned to the fact you had played the class in this post. mmmkay.
- You now went on to argue that the CC'd other player meant you couldn't last. This despite my original argument saying that a free warrior means no problem since a druid/rogue team then cannot focus on just you. Heck, I even repeated that in my last post in italics but you still ignored it. mmmkay.
- You now proclaim that all healers are focus fired first, therefore stam/res is more important to them than any other class. I'm afraid this is pure bullshit. If we have reliable CC, we use it on the healer (unless there is a warrior, then he gets it). And then burn down in this order
Hunter
Warlock
Shammy
Rogue
Any healer class
Any other class
Warrior
I can explain why, but doubt you care enough to read it.
But of course I said all that and "answered nothing".
So to clarify before you declare victory again:
An "equally geared" rogue/druid combination - even if they "know what they are doing" - does NOT have an easy time against a shammy/warrior team. That was the original argument. That is what I have been trying to ram home along with Riss and Si - even with scenarios of the fight...
... but it's like throwing stones against a brick wall. Nothing sticks.
Finally, in early response to your next post - since I see no point arguing the matter any further against your vastly superior knowledge of the class and all things arena - I'll bring it down a notch in terms that hopefully even you understand:
NO U
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Unfortunatly for you i have played a resto shaman. And done so in the arena aswell while im at it. Oh you argument didnt go well there.
Try healing yourself through two classes with stuns, kick, possible AT. You will never get the chance to heal. Have you actually played arena before? Doesnt sound like it. If you think a stealth combo will actually let you heal, then you dont have a clue. Thats why resilience is the major stat for any healer along with stamina.
Boneblood. Khaz'goroth server. Armory link. Been playing it since December 2005.
I dont do alts.
So have I played in Arena? More than you.
Have I played with a warrior? Check out my massively high rated 5v5 team (lawl). Had the same mortal strike warrior in 2v2 and 3v3 (he has since left those teams).
Equal gear? Outside the Medallion, I have NO healing PvP gear (all my PvP gear is for enhance. Yes... I know). So if anything, I am undergeared - even at the sub 1500 bracket.
Guess what? No druid/rogue combo I have come up against has ever "burned me down" while the warrior is free in 2v2.
Earth shield.
Trinket.
Warstomp.
Natures swiftness.
Natures Guardian.
Uninterruptible heals.
Thanks for coming.
That's right - they obviously all had no clue. :roll:
Stamina and resilience, eh? No shit, sherlock. Name me a spec/class that doesn't benefit from that in PvP.
Oh - and if I need priest advice, I'll be sure to look you up.
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Earth shield - not dispelable by this combo - along with mail and a shield will easily outlast their damage/CC.
Oh they will. And the underlined jumbo is just wrong. A druid/rogue combo **** over riss with equal gear level will rip him apart. And just assuming Si breaks free a tad to early they can pop maxed combo points to keep him **** to death.
Uhuh.
If Si breaks early (and I forgot about beserker, thanks rev) a shout has them running in all directions.
That aside, any CC applied to Si should he "break early" is
a) trinketable
not placed on Riss, giving him time to break out and heal. As for the underlined jumbo - yep, the mail and extra armour from the shield obviously do bugger all against pure physical attacks, right?
And I didnt even bother mentioning natures swiftness or natures guardian.
Played a resto shaman before, have you?
And yet you continue with your assertions that they could not possibly win even after being refuted by Riss, Si and now me (2 of us which actually have played resto shaman in arena).
Fantastic.
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An equally geared rogue + druid combo will cream you in the arenas.
They are a VERY strong combo - but I am going to side with Risso and Si here.
Assuming Si is sapped and uses his trinket, that leaves 2 options for the druid/rogue combo:
1) Focus fire Rissok
2) Rogue focuses on Rissok, Druid CC's Si.
(Of course, they could focus fire the warrior, but that just makes it too easy for Riss to heal through, even if they attempt to CC him first.)
Earth shield - not dispelable by this combo - along with mail and a shield will easily outlast their damage/CC. So
1) Si is free to rip the rogue a new A
2) Only 1 person is hitting rissok and earth shield has that covered.
Once you have outlasted the initial burst, it's over. If they want to stealth and try again when cooldowns are up - good luck. Riss will heal to full, have full mana (with mana totem dow) and now both Si and Riss are less susceptible to their CC.
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Druids are a pain to play.
They do everything but not great at anything.
1) They heal but unless you are resto spec its not as good as priest or a shammy
2) They tank but are a pretty basic tank
3) The cat form is a rogue but with not many of the abilities.
Balance druids aren't as good as mages.
Some of the best abilities only work outdoors.
I only stuck with him as I was in the 40's when I realised there are better classes.
I am next going for my rogue on TM.
Druids are the strongest of the hybrids, imo.
Ever try to kill a druid in PvP? If they stay in the one form, it's piss easy for the very reasons you mention.
If they know what they are doing and change forms constantly - good luck. You can't snare them, they have instant HOT's which even heal when dispelled and they have CC in every form (pounce, charge/bash, roots, cyclone) bar travel. They make one of the strongest combinations for 2v2 in arena and are viable in every arena group.
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Love the BG's. The fact that it's random is half the fun. AFK'ers kill our chances of winning in some, which sucks a little.
Cant stand Arena, though. Take a few OP'd classes, add spec and tradeskill and you beat anyone, regardless of skill. I should not need to massively out-gear my opponents to stand a chance. "Balanced" my arse.
We gave up trying to tank the summoner with his hounds- instead banging 2 tanks on him and it worked much better. Hes the key I think.As soon as that guys down its a piece of cake as long as you can keep the mage tank up.
Thanks for the advice, Max.
We put the 2 guild OT's on Olm and HKM went down at the second ask. Awesome.
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Ive seen Kara cleared now and we got Maulgar.
It was all just the pull, on most attempts we barely got 1 of his adds down before the wipe. We did it with just 23 people too -with one person in greens on his first raid (recruitment is a bitch).
We'll be trying Gruul, but we hope to mix it up by trying lurker, doomwalker and voidreaver.
Might get lucky and get some trash drops.
There is also the boredom of farming kara- I hate curator---> aran.
Gratz on HKM.
We are in a similar situation. Kara is on farm and getting boring/repetitive. Recruitment is difficult, especially as no one in the guild give it enough attention (bar myself).
We are only just starting Gruuls and wiped constantly on HKM for 2 hours the other night. The pull is good and we get the priest down - but I swear the warlocks in our guild give Nelf Huntards a good name. How hard is it to enslave a demon and push 2 buttons (taunt and dispell)?
But no. We had felhunters tanking the wrong target. Felhunters dying within 5 seconds. Melee running around trying to tie down Olm who is running us into Krosh and Kiggler's AOE, then death coiling raid members at will. If we had 1 warlock who actually had a clue, we'd have had HKM down on the first shot.
*sigh*
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I think you have hit the nail on the head - but I think you are looking at it from an English bias.
English football has always been a bit rough and tumble. Physical. Driven. Demanding, even. But as you are now attracting more foreigners to your league, they are raising the technical side of your normal game. Here, the "better" players you mention were brought up in a culture of move-and-pass, not blood-and-thunder. it's not so much kicking a ball in anger as it is coveting possession and caressing passes.
This makes it difficult for the English players. Especially for those who have come up through the lower divisions - where it is still 100 miles an hour death-or-glory stuff.
So is it a matter of the rich clubs never being caught by the also rans? No. Not if you start educating your youth in a more technical brand of football. Until that happens, though - you will only see 4 teams ever challenge for the title.
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Warriors holding threat and generating rage too easily?
Rogues topping the DPS meters?
Enhancement shaman a worthy addition to your melee DPS group?
No need to panic - Blizzard are hotfixing it
not placed on Riss, giving him time to break out and heal.
World of Warcraft
in Games and Gaming
Posted
Arguing with you is pointless, isnt it? Whenever a point is made, you change the parameters.
1. Playing a class on somebody elses wow account means you know jack shit. Live with it.
2. FFS - I was responding to your "You can just as easily Frost Shock to snare targets aswell" bullshit. Dont start spouting more bullshit to cover your ass. You are wrong.
Oh, and NOBODY elses snare suffers from DR.
3. This is what I was responding to:
"If you cant reach your enemy in an arena, well then its you tactic which is wrong, not the spec or class. Thats also why you have teams who base their attack in riding in, burst and hoping to catch people by suprise. "
Understand that there is NO tactic that makes it any easier for me to get into melee. Once dismounted I am extremely easily kited/CC'd. That was my only point.
Dont start with the 5 other classes zerging/CC bollox - I'm one of the 5 and not listed in the 5dps CC zerg you mentioned!
4. The point is this: Enhancement sucks for PvP. Period. We can take down 2 classes easily everytime 1 on 1 - priests and shaman. Nobody else.
Yet you think that is justification for "fixing" shaman with diminishing returns on Earth Shock interrupts. This is what started this whole stink.
Quote, because you wont believe me:
Enchancement shamans can do stupid damage which ive experienced both on my warlock and my priest, but the Shaman vs priest fight was very unbalanced and no intended imbalance, which is why they are fixing it.
But Arena is NOT about 1 on 1. As such, even priests and shamans find it relatively easy against Enhance. The fact that there are very few high rated enhancement shaman is testament to this and thats the reason I raised it. (Gratz on finding one btw. I can link a few too, if you think that makes any difference).
Get some perspective - diminishing returns on ES essentially broke shaman DPS PvP specs (elemental and enhance) completely. That was the reason for the protests and for blizzard changing their mind.
As for all specs being viable in PvP... who cares? Simple fact is Enhance is the worst PvP spec. I'm fully aware of that. I never asked for buffs - I just refuse to take more nerfs because of healer QQ's.