Con

Sorry for pushing it a bit far with my re-evaluation of Gigg's playing career. I do believe what I say but sometimes I post things that I know I probably shouldn't because it will wind people up.

Sometimes that can be entertaining, sometimes you can go too far and it is plain annoying to read and my most recent statements deserve the dustbin.

However, although I can get carried away with the contrary opinion, I do believe Giggs as a player was vastly over-rated by fans and cannot be called a great player like Zidane or Ronaldo.

I believe his greatest legacy is his 30s, adapting to a new position and keeping his fitness for top level football until he was 40. That is a great achievement.

None of this affects my opinion of Giggs as a coach and manager. He could be a great manager.

We should remember that Van Gaal is working with Giggs and Giggs is essentially heir apparent, so I don't expect there will be a problem with Van Gaal fitting in. Because of the situation he may have been told his role is to be both a manager and mentor and that Giggs will take over in a few years.

Giggs was a phenomenon consistently the best player in the league & champions league matches. If bale has 1/4 of the career as giggs he will be lucky. Giggs had 23 years at the absolute top of football playing for the one of the biggest football clubs on the planet and saw off countless heirs to his throne and even held off sum aged 41

LEGEND

Giggs lucked-in to play alongside Scholes, Beckham, Cantona, Ronaldo, Keane etc and to be managed by Fergie. Just because he was a fitness freak who lasted until 40, doesn't mean he was the best of the lot. He was arguably the least talented at football but the best athlete - although Beckham had more stamina.

Quick, but Giggs couldn't cross or shoot like Beckham or Scholes. Couldn't tackle like Neville or Butt. Giggs was a fast runner who could dribble. That's it really. Once he got near the net he was a headless chicken. Rather like Gabby, the highlight reel show only the times the ball hit the net.

Journeyman means went to loads of clubs.

At a young age his skill and pace scared teams, that they had to double up on him meaning the likes of beckham and kanchelskis had more space to operate. You need to look beyond stats alone to see how a player performs

If it's space that Giggs needed, and we know fast runners like that, when Ronaldo came on the scene he should have had acres, yet he never got near the numbers Ronaldo posted from the same position.

Anyway Beckham was played on the right so I don't know how Giggs could have created space for Beckham because he played on the left.

Con giggs was nothing like agbonlahor. 

He's not literally Agbonlahor but he's a more skilful version of the same kind of one-club journeyman professional.

Look at the skill he had at a young age. He used to flip the ball over his head whilst running at pace. 

 

 

 

That sounds useful. Just consider how many goals he scored that way during his career... uh, nevermind.

He was a key reason that utd won so many titles during the 90's. He learnt to adapt his game when his body was getting older.

 

 

Just one player, of many, and the last to retire. I'd give him credit for being a fitness freak.

 

 

 

Yeah, but Albrighton will be concerned Leicester will do a QPR - rich promoted team and relegated in the first season, weighed down by the money bags that brought them up.

I'm genuinely not sure if you're being serious?

Actually I'm wrong - it was QPR's second season. Same point though.

Why go to a club that's destined to be managed by Harry Redknapp?

I don't think you've followed Leicester very well since their takeover if that is what you believe mate

 

I don't know anything about Leicester and not claiming otherwise. I'm just suggesting what might concern a transfer target of that club.

 

Yeah, but Albrighton will be concerned Leicester will do a QPR - rich promoted team and relegated in the first season, weighed down by the money bags that brought them up.

 

I'm genuinely not sure if you're being serious?

 

Actually I'm wrong - it was QPR's second season. Same point though.

Why go to a club that's destined to be managed by Harry Redknapp?

 

You also ignore the fact that he was always in the team.

 

Yeah, he was the Agbonlahor of Old Trafford. Pacey, eager, always ready to blaze over another great goal-scoring opportunity.  Not brilliant enough to sell to a better team, too good to sell to a worse one.

Some players don't need to score 30 goals and have 15 assists each season, only a few are capable of that. David Beckham was a very good footballer and (of course) one of my favorite players of all time given that I was a teenager when he was at his best, but Ryan Giggs has always been better, more consistent and important to the team. Beckham had the looks and media frenzy around him all the time which made him visible, unlike Giggs who always stayed in the shadow because it suited him very well. 

 

 

Ryan Giggs wasn't one of those players and wasn't capable of that. What did he do then? Just enough to earn a place in the team.  Beckham scored more and was wanted by Real Madrid. While Giggs was chaperoning the likes of Ashley Young, Beckham got to play alongside greats like Zidane, sunning it in Spain. I know whose career path I'd prefer to have.

You mention 8 vs. 6 goals like it's a huge difference, of course it isn't. The wide midfielders in the 90's and 00's didn't really contribute that much in terms of goals, something happened when Cristiano Ronaldo broke through and scored 30+ goals in the league for Man Utd when mainly operating outside the box. You had Robert Pires of course, magnificent player in his prime, but he only scored 14 goals as a record - which he did three years in a row. The other years he was down on 9, 7 and 4 for Arsenal. Giggs managed 13 and 11 back in the early 90's.

Quite right. Giggs didn't break the mould. He was typical of his generation of player. The best Welsh winger of his generation, possibly the best British winger unless I've forgotten about anyone.

 

Like I started this post, he was always in the team. For most of the seasons, the first player on the sheet every single time - you don't get there by being just an average player. Giggs always contributed tactically and because of his smartness, not just goals and assists. He was helping out at the back, he was smart going forward and he created chances for others every single year.

 

 

 

Increasingly as he got older Giggs had experience. By virtue of being in the same place for a long time no player other than Neville and Scholes, until they retired, knew Old Trafford and Fergie better. He was also a symbol of the club's success - a mascot, if you like, that could inspire the younger players. His strong work ethic was also a valuable trait to have around the dressing room.

 

You mention Gareth Bale as well, what's your point? Bale has the natural ability to become one of the absolute best players this game has ever seen, alongside Messi and Ronaldo from this generation. Surely enough, his injuries will probably ruin his prospects in the long run, but comparing him with Giggs is nonsense. Being Welsh is not really a very interesting denominator, if Ronaldo or Zidane were Welsh you would have said the same thing. Bale being great and potentially historically great, has got nothing to do with Giggs being great as well.

 

 

 

The point is Bale is another Welsh winger who is a far more potent attacking weapon than Giggs ever was. He has become greater than Giggs already in his short career.  Just look at the quality and number of goals he scores. Oozes world class. Giggs tried hard and just about managed world class-ish by the end of his career, although I will accept that before Ronaldo came on the scene Giggs did look world class.

 

If his career ended ten years ago? What? The man played and was one of the best players on the pitch when United lost to Real Madrid last year in the Champions League, at the age of 38 or 39 or whatever it was. You cannot just discard ten years of his career! Even so, if he retired at the age of 30 he would still be remembered as the player that won the Premier League 8 or 9 times as well as the Champions League. A great player in his prime and an absolute professional, compared to all these idiots with abysmal tattoos and flashy Aston Martin's at the age of 21. I will be sad to see him go, and it's a travesty that he didn't curl in that free-kick at Old Trafford when he played his last game two weeks ago. That would have been some finish to the greatest career in football.

 

 

 

I think you're over-doing it but you're entitled to your opinion.

Yeah, but Albrighton will be concerned Leicester will do a QPR - rich promoted team and relegated in the first season, weighed down by the money bags that brought them up.

Surely Giggs' longevity has to be factored in? To play at the top level for as long as he did is quite an achievement and something more talented players were not able to do.

That's what I do. 

If you end his career at 30 it's a great career but not in the world class bracket.

His 30s were years when he actually managed to improve as a player, as well as stay fit. In this and only this sense he was a model professional.

World class-ish. Lacked a bit of something to be truly world class but had more than enough to separate himself from the ordinary Man Utd player.

 

 

 

Giggs didn't have an end product enough of the time.

 

From age 20-33 he scored on average 6 goals per season.

Not that it's worth bothering to argue, but between from 1993 to 2006 I make it nine goals per season. 

 

 

Premier League only. 

 

Any particular reason? Presumably we're not counting his non-Premier League trophies then either?

 

Premier League only is a fair comparison.

If Giggs gets all the credit for the trophies, where does Fergie come in? Giggs was a bit-part player. That doesn't mean he won't be a great manager. Just remember when Ronaldo came on the scene thinking that Giggs was actually pretty shit.

 

Giggs didn't have an end product enough of the time.

 

From age 20-33 he scored on average 6 goals per season.

Not that it's worth bothering to argue, but between from 1993 to 2006 I make it nine goals per season. 

 

Premier League only. 

BTW my goal stats Beckham vs Giggs were for the Premier League only.

If we ignore half of his career, his career wouldn't seem so impressive? No shit.

 

With observations like that you ought to be on ITV's pundit list.

 

He got found out early and wasn't the same player.  How do you go from 11 and 13 goals a season as a 20/22 year old to 5-6, or half the amount?

Stayed at Man Utd riding the coattails of the Fergie Years. Took the easy option without the challenge of a new team in a better league.

His 30s were the years I most appreciated Giggs as a player. 

It's also up to Albrighton whether he wants to stay.

He will know the system we played last season might limit his opportunities. He will know Villa have Grealish and Robinson coming through. If he's ambitious he might accept an equal wage somewhere else that guarantees more football.

If he goes anywhere it will be Everton.

Giggs didn't have an end product enough of the time.

From age 20-33 he scored on average 6 goals per season.

In comparison, Beckham scored on average 8 goals per season.

When Ronaldo arrived at Old Trafford he blew Giggs out the water. Bale is much better now than Giggs ever was.

If his career ended at 30 - which it didn't partly because he was a great athlete - he would be remembered for a couple of great seasons early in his twenties then lack of end product.

As I said before, doesn't mean he's not world class-ish. He adapted his game. He had various other in-demand qualities to make up for his lack of end product.

 

If Albrighton can cut it (which I agree) why is his contract not being renewed?

Can't afford his wages.

 

He's wanted by Roberto Martinez.

I rest my case, M'Lud.

 

 

Infact zog needs to play if we got financial restraints lerner should order him to play hutton zog and bent

How very insightful of you.

Just pointing it out mate lambert should grow up bloody bomb squad. Bent was our saviour dont think hes woth 3m if im honest our record signing made to feel worthless by an inept manager lambert fir me cannot turn it round his style of football is woeful he will still buy youngsters who just wont cut it. Lowton westwood bowery total muck.Lambert should have guzan vlaar okore delph and tekkers in his side. Villa need to get 10 players in he wont be givdn the cash so bargain basement again.

 

Westwood raised his game last season. Kozak, Bacuna and Albrighton also look like they can cut it. I also like Weimann considering he is still very young.

Guzan

Vlaar

Okore

Delph

Westwood

Albrighton

Weimann

Benteke

Kozak

Ideally we need an addition 2 defenders, 1 midfielder and 1 striker.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmnUtGQIM14

 

Best goal evs.

 

We've all wanted to do it.....

Sign him!

I love how careful he was scoring that goal. The ball was still rolling toward the goal as he head it over the line.

Giggs has also retired from playing. 

 

13 Premier Leagues

4 FA Cups

4 League Cups

2 Champions Leagues

9 Community Shields

1 Fifa World Club Cup

1 European Super Cup

1 Intercontinental cup

 

953 games for United and 168 goals.

64 games for Wales and 12 goals.

 

Quite a record.

Giggs played in a good team. Would he get on Pele's all time great lists?

While he was fast and had good dribbling skills through-out his 20s he lacked finishing and his crossing was pretty woeful - at least compared to Beckham. 

If he was in any team other than Man Utd his goal-scoring and assists would be right down.

To his credit in his 30s he actually continued to improve - his passing range got better and proved able to play in centre of midfield on occasion.

He was also an able team leader and in terms of training and fitness a model professional.

Overall, world class-ish, but if he got an injury at 30 and had to retire we probably wouldn't put him in the same bracket as say Beckham, which would we do now.

 

 

I believe the Admn guy on TBAR that it was the 2 texans. But for some reason the deal fell through. We are now looking at other bidders so its taking longer, but I think its all in process. Hopefully his recent ITK will come to life in the next couple of days.

Yes, that's how I see it. Wonder if they pulled out due to the leak?

It's pointless pulling out after the leak.

 

Not if they had to because one of their wives objected to the deal.

I would die with happiness if we were taken over by a Bollywood Billionaire. Imagine the half time shows, and the food. There would be dancing!

 

we would have more imaginative set pieces. 

if the defensive wall could do that...

this did not happen

If we get Klinnsman we may get some bargain signings from the MLS.

Iniesta was 30 4 days ago. Is that over?

 

It's over 30.

And Puyol missed euro 2012.

 

 

 

So he did.

 

Anyway, did anyone say youaregay?

 

 

 

No, unless you are.

Can Aguero and Messi play together? 

Aguero has developed into a great carrier of the ball. They both can't do that job.

Argentina need Messi to sit in the middle of the park in a Xavi role dictating play, making just the occasional run.