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El Zen

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Posts posted by El Zen

  1. You could always start on snuff instead, the Scandinavians are crazy on that.

    Well, if all smokers quit smoking and started doing snuff instead, the general health would increase dramatically so that isn't really a bad idea.

    It is absolutely insane that snuff is banned all across Europe, when cigarettes are not.

  2. It's making them walk outside to do it that I don't agree with - even if I enjoy smokefree pubs. I'd enjoy car free roads too if I wanted to walk on roads, doesn't mean I should be allowed to get it.

    It's the concept of putting the smokers' liberties above the liberties of those who suffer from passive smoking I don't get.

    Noone will suffer physically if they aren't allowed to smoke inside a pub or restaurant, but many people (if not all of us) will suffer physically if a person decides to light up at the table next to you.

    Non-smokers, asthmatics and others should not be restricted from going to the pub or restaurant because of other people's bad habits.

  3. Michelsen,

    why do smokers deserve less freedom than you, i didnt say smokers should have more freedom, just the same as everbody else. this is not a dictatorship, although it feels like it

    But if a pub is full of cigarette smoke, the smokers have effectively taken away my freedom of choice to enter that place, again not to mention asthmatics and other allergies.

    Smokers on the other hand, don't choke up and have trouble breathing if the air inside the pub is smoke-free. And if they absolutely have to smoke, they have the option (or freedom of choice if you will, to go outside for three minutes.

  4. and i thought we lived in a democracy, freedom of chioce

    So why do smokers deserve more freedom than me? Not to mention those who suffer from asthma and allergies?

  5. Plus, the health benefits would save the NHS quite a bit anyway.

    A study was done on this in the Czech Republic on whether banning smoking would benefit the country/economy and they found that smoking killed people off at an age well before they ended up in hospital with 'old people' diseases. So smoking, apart from bringing in obscene amounts of taxes, actually 'culls' the population too. A double whammy. Otherwise it'd be pensions this, adult nappies that..

    Then again smoking can cause diseases that'll make incapable of working and in need of extensive medical care constantly. These people won't be able to contribute to society, and cost a fortune to keep alive. This study may serve some useful points for the pro-smoking brigade, and maybe it is correct on some points, but I don't think it's worth paying too much attention to it. I think it is safe to say that banning smoking will not have a negative impact on tha national economy.

    I'll stop this now, as it's getting a bit too cynical discussing the economic benefits of people killing themselves off with tobacco and tar :)

  6. As the government rake in huge amounts of tax from smokers I wonder what effect this will have on the economy going forward IF smoking numbers drop ?

    No need to worry, I'd imagine. In Norway, we have higher taxes on cigarettes and have had a considerable drop in cigarette sales and consumption. I can't say we've noticed a dramatic impact on the economy, Tony, I really can't :P

    Plus, the health benefits would save the NHS quite a bit anyway.

  7. Had it in Norway for a few years. Lots of complaints initially but now a considerable majority seem to accept the fact that a smoking ban is a good thing.

    I love it personally, as I'm very sensitive to cigarette smoke. I can't imagine how much people whjo suffer from asthma and other allergies must appreciate the ban.

    (The point about places having to close down is basically a myth, and I don't get those who're complaining about BO either as I sure haven't noticed any significant difference there).

  8. So if standing is the thing that makes a difference, how come other teams don't have trouble creating better atmospheres.

    I honestly don't think there are too many places where the atmosphere is significantly better than at the Villa. When we've travelled over to see the Villa we've usually tried to get about a bit and visit different stadiums, and I must say that a packed Holte End filled with hope of renewed glory is second to very few places in the Prem. The atmosphere all around England is generally very far from where it used to be, back in the days of terracing. While I appreciate the safety concerns and that something had to be done after Hillsborough, it is evident that "safe standing" can only be a good thing as proven in Germany and various other places around Europe including my native Norway.

    However, you're not entirely wrong in saying that the mood plays an important role in creating a decent atmosphere. When things were at their worst under Doug Ellis, even the best of us went apathetic and just couldn't be bothered anymore. You need something positive to fight for, and we've got that now so I predict an improvement both in terms of attendance and atmosphere, but the atmosphere around the stadiums of English football will not be as good as it should be until we're allowed to stand up again for reasons already explained.

  9. What difference does standing make?! It's still the same people in the crowds, still the same desire to be singing or concentrating on the game.

    It's whole lot easier to join in with the singing if you're allowed to stand up. Trust me, if you haven't experienced the atmosphere in a standing up section of fans, you've been missing out.

    The point is that getting a new chant started relies on the support of a few like minded people around you, the beauty of standing is that a chant can be started by a few mates who regularly meet ie stand in the same spot. It is no coincidence that the developement of songs at VP has largely stood still for the last 10seasons. If you get a chance watch the DVD from Old Trafford Villa V Everton 1975 and you will be amazed at the vocal support from the Villa fans!

    Absolutely. Good post, mate.

  10. What difference does standing make?! It's still the same people in the crowds, still the same desire to be singing or concentrating on the game.

    It's whole lot easier to join in with the singing if you're allowed to stand up. Trust me, if you haven't experienced the atmosphere in a standing up section of fans, you've been missing out.

  11. Nothing morerepetitive that 'shit on the city' and 'Holte enders n the sky' (the crap short version that is).

    These songs aren't repetetive by nature, as they aren't structured to be repeated over and over again (like the PAOK chant definitely is). However, I obviously do agree that "shit on the city" in particular is sung too much by some people.

    its not going to change unless standing is allowed but I can't see that happening

    Absolutely agree with this.

  12. what annoys me is the people who critisise what others come up with and fail to come up with a reasonable alternative.

    Sorry, but let me get this straight. If I don't really fancy a song you or anyone has come up with, I have to come up with my own song before I get to have a say?

    FWIW, I think a version "land of hope and glory" could make a decent anthem for us.

  13. That's all fine, Julie, I have no problems with what you're saying. I just don't like the song, for so many reasons. And YES, I have clicked the youtube-linky-thingy, but I honestly wasn't that impressed at all.

    I'll repeat my initial point though; Standing up is the most important tool if you want better atmosphere and more singing. Coming up with new songs is fine and all that, and I do appreciate the effort, but it won't make much of a difference if people aren¨'t allowed to stand up and sing them.

  14. The Scouse have movement at Anfield called 'Reclaim the Kop' where they are trying to inject European style support into English Football

    Please God, no! European style support is repetetive, lacks the humor and spontanious banter we love about the English support culture. I see people keep mentioning the PAOK chant and JulieB keeps trying to promote the VIVA song. I guess this is going to sound a bit harsh, and I honestly do appreciate that you're trying hard to get something going, but I really hope the Holte End won't adopt these songs. For me, this is one step closer to someone banging a big drum and before you know it we're like the Pompey fans with their two "song" repertoir.

    British fans are unique. They're funny, they're creative, they sing about tradition, have actual songs and they make a lot of noise. The key to bringing back the noise and atmosphere in British football is STANDING UP. Simple as that.

    We're not arguing against the spontaneity and humourous banter, we're saying that we should also have a good decent chant. Holtenders in the sky and "villa villa villa villa" are so lame, they are embarrassing. Villa fans don't make a lot of noise....the one game we did was against SUFC and we stuffed them. That is why so many people on here are keen to get new (and actually decent) chants/songs, it actually makes a difference.

    Holtenders in the sky is great, but anyway. I'm not saying we shouldn't get new chants and songs, but I don't think "eurostyle" e.g. PAOK and VIVA is the way to go. For me they represent a kind of atmosphere that I wouldn't want at Villa Park, because they are repetetive and simply quite dull. This is only my oppinion obviously, but I think we would rue the day we've ended up like Notlob and Pompey fans.

    Songs and chants should go in more traditional English tunes and rhymes. Can't beat that imo.

  15. The Scouse have movement at Anfield called 'Reclaim the Kop' where they are trying to inject European style support into English Football

    Please God, no! European style support is repetetive, lacks the humor and spontanious banter we love about the English support culture. I see people keep mentioning the PAOK chant and JulieB keeps trying to promote the VIVA song. I guess this is going to sound a bit harsh, and I honestly do appreciate that you're trying hard to get something going, but I really hope the Holte End won't adopt these songs. For me, this is one step closer to someone banging a big drum and before you know it we're like the Pompey fans with their two "song" repertoir.

    British fans are unique. They're funny, they're creative, they sing about tradition, have actual songs and they make a lot of noise. The key to bringing back the noise and atmosphere in British football is STANDING UP. Simple as that.

  16. Benitez actually has purchased quite a few right backs, but Finnan keeps proving to be the best option. I really rate him and would love to see him come to Villa, but I just can't see Benitez being silly enough to let him go.

    Unless they get Alvez that is.

    True, I guess, but even then I for one would try very hard to accomodate both in the squad.

    I would absolutely love to be proven wrong though and see Finnan sign for us. I guess these days we can't rule anything or anyone out anymore, can we? Feels good :)

  17. Naked Gun in the absense of any Monty Python films. :P

    The man was asking for stupid comedies. Now Monty Python may be silly, certainly, but never stupid :winkold:

    Not really my favourite genre this, but someone mentioned Three Amigos and I have to admit that Chevy Chase and Steve Martin have made me giggle a couple of times.

  18. 2. Re. the West Ham issue: The Club will support the FA position...

    Then let's just say that I strongly disagree with the club.

    Moving on from that and looking forward to a new season, I have a question regarding pre-season friendlies. What sort of online coverage will be provided for the pre-season games? I'm sure there are many of us who won't be able to attend any games, but would still love to be able to follow perhaps the most interesting summer in this club's history.

  19. I read a peice in the paper about Bellamy following the golf club incident. He was honest about his anger issues and he came across as a genuinely nice guy, though that could just be the 'spin'. He's one hell of a talent, I'd be happy to have him.

    We do need another striker. 3 just simply isn't enough.

    I agree, and I think Bellamy and Carew could work very well together. Both are very mobile, strong and comfortable on the ball, and at the same time they compliment eachother in that Carew is better in the air whereas Bellamy is a better poacher than Big John.

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