Woodytom

I can not take another minute of this guy aimlessly booting the ball up field.

Thought he was the best player by a country mile.

6 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

I just don't see the need to sell any of them frankly. 

I think there's a need to balance up the side. I think Jordan is one of our better players and because of that forces his way into the side. 

Despite our upturn in fortunes which I'm obviously delighted with, I still find the team woefully unbalanced and I'm still left not really knowing where half the team is playing. 

I disagree with regards your point on versatility. I don't think he is necessarily versatile. More that he is not demanding of a specific role. That's why I think he will always be a bit of a luxury player who happened to stand out in our darkest hour.

43 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

Hasn't really offered much at all yet...

Out of 2 players offering very little I'd prefer to keep the player who at least has a bit of an excuse with injuries and who, should he begin to offer something, it will be different to the 3/4 players already offering something in attack.

Plus I think we would get more money for ayew.

12 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Actually I always found the intense criticism of Heskey a bit much, particularly any personal jibes. Same here. 

I don't think Westwood is very good but I also don't think he deserves to be personally attacked or especially booed. 

There weren't many that did but fair enough if you weren't one. He certainly wasn't defended anywhere near the level Westwood is (I remember well as I used to defend him). He certainly offered a lot more than Westwood imo.

I feel the booing is a bit of a moot point on here as I'm not aware of any posters who do boo him?

I'm worried that we've got money. I'm worried that we will do something stupid like spend 30m on yannick bolasie 

1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said:

Complete and total guesswork, but maybe it was as a confidence booster for Rudy given how little pitchtime he's had recently?

This was my thought.

Interesting story and  i hope both are better soon. Something different but quite weird happened to me on the drive down yesterday.

Me and Mrs woodytom have a bit of a thing where we take display signs literally. For instance, il be driving down the motorway and she will make sure that I actively check my fuel levels if we pass a sign that says 'please check your fuel'. (I'm obviously fully aware of my fuel levels at the time, but we must obey the sign...... I know the long winter evenings must just fly right).

Anyway, so I'm coming down the m42 yesterday and I start seeing SOS signs. I come up with something that I deem an appropriate reaction with regards our game and think I must remember that for next time she is in the car.

Then I think, no, il pull over in the layby and text her about it.... This took me about 2 minutes.

About 2 minutes down the road I come to a complete stand still as just up in front had been a crash involving 3 cars. Missed about ten minutes of the first half as a result but wish those involved are ok..

1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said:

Because they keep **** happening. Just because you don't hear them doesn't mean they aren't happening.

Jesus **** Christ.

I wouldn't let it get to you. certainly not this much. 

I went the game yesterday for the first time in a long time and one of the things I took note of was this and I didn't hear a thing. And I wasn't too far from Steveo.

Even when he **** up there really wasn't anything of note as the crowd were that convinced that lambert was offside.

Honestly, the crowds response to Westwood yesterday was probably the only thing more anonymous than his performance 

7 minutes ago, tismyk said:

Didn't hear any boo`s for him saturday

Me neither. even when he made the mistake. Not sure why people keep banging on about the boos. 

2 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

I think the way he plays football is wonderful. I really do.

If you think that's OTT then that's your prerogative.

Right well that's not what you originally said but fair enough.

In my line of work..... when we refer to customers (as want of a better word), as model customers they go above and beyond what is expected of them. 

I don't think Ashley Westwood does that. I don't think he pushes himself one bit. could he have developed? god knows. I don't think he's tried. I think he's become comfortable in his surroundings which whilst understandable is not commendable and actually as a result.... he's gone backwards.

A model professional is someone who others look up to. who wants to look up to someone who has got worse?

6 minutes ago, Zatman said:

yeah I do agree on Westwood being a model professional. you dont have to be brilliant to be that but you have to show more than your ability. Kevin Kilbane would be a good example model professional for me without having a lot of natural talent also Gary O'Neil, James Morrison or Glenn Whelan

Ashley Westwood isnt

Kevin kilbane is a great shout.

4 minutes ago, DK82 said:

Do you think it's his fault the club wanted him, played him, paid him and skimped and saved on transfers so one of the only option is Westwood?

I'm guessing it is his fault. He planned this since he was 6. Evil man.

Not his fault in that I blame him but in that he should have been aware of what might have been expected from him as a result. 

1 minute ago, HanoiVillan said:

James Milner is a regular for the side who sit 2nd in the Premier League and has accrued 61 caps for England over the last seven years. He is absolutely one of the best players in this country. And Cristiano **** Ronaldo is one of the best players ever, let alone what country he plays in. 

If you're disappointed by our players not reaching those standards, I guess it makes sense that you're constantly disappointed by our players, but it doesn't make sense that you direct 90% of that criticism at Ashley Westwood because none of our other players are as good as Milner or Ronaldo either. 

I could have named a host of players much better than James milner. I chose James for his consistency, his determination to improve, his obvious effort, his off-field behaviour, his ability to adapt to different positions and not only get on with it but make the position his own. And then obviously he's talented too.

Here we seem to be referring to asgley Westwood as a model professional because he tries hard and isn't a complete bellend like a lot of players at villa park recently.

Brad friedel would be abother good example imo.

Just now, TrentVilla said:

So what is 'it' and how have you concluded that Westwood falls short?

Second paragraph of my initial post on the subject.

5 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

So, in other words, to be a model professional, you have to be amongst the best players in the country. 

No. James milner is a long way off being the best player in the country. And Cristiano Ronaldo doesn't play in this country.

It's a bit more than just giving your all and not talking bullshit on twitter. Typical low standards expected of football players strikes again.

19 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

For me pretty much week in week out he is a 5/6 out of 10 player.

Do you think that is acceptable for a senior player at this level on 35k a week? 

Ashley Westwood is a poor player with a commendable attitude.

That's not the same as being a model professional imo.

3 minutes ago, Dave J said:

Here here I find it incredulous this guy gets the stick that he does and you know who gets a free passage- all this guy ever does is try his best, which may or may not be good enough- but he's always given his all and is for me a model pro - goodness only knows what the guy must think privately about certain other players 

Ah the model pro claim again. A model pro does more than give his all. 

To be a 'model' you are an influence to others in terms of effort, performance, attitude, desire, development, ability to adapt.

James milner, Cristiano Ronaldo..... They are the types of players I think of when I think model professional. continually look to improve and maximise their potential regardless of the environment. They keep their condition in absolute tip top shape and always deliver in effort and more often than not, performance as well. 

19 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

It is a strange old thread this and I am amazed at a time when for the first time in years we are doing well that this thread is one of the most popular.

The general consensus seems to be that he is not a good player who we could do with knocking down the pecking order in January.

Where the debate rages is the amount of abuse he is getting especially at games and I gotta be honest I don't get it. Westwood has never disrespected the club, never tweeted bullshit against us the fans, never made the media rags for the wrong reasons. Pretty much in the whole time he has been here I believe he has done his best and game in game out gave his all in terms of effort. His only crime is that his best most of the time hasn't been good enough. The fact he has still found himself a regular in the side isn't his fault though. It is the fault of numerous managers, and/or an owner for not providing the funds to replace him with better.

Therefore for me blame Lerner, blame Lambert, Sherwood, RDM but don't blame the lad who is being picked, as the current manager deems we don't have better, and who is doing his best and don't abuse him at the games as that certainly isn't going to enhance his performance.

He is criticised for his consistent poor performance and his constant mistakes.

Nobody is criticising him for not trying his best.

It really is inconsistent this football fan lark. I don't remember too many times where Emile Heskey didn't try his best..... nor did he do the club harm. Yet he was constantly criticised by the fans and nobody battered an eyelid. 

Not all his fault as you quite rightly put but he signed a 35k a week contract so must, in my view, take some responsibility for his lacklustre displays. I don't blame him for signing such a lucrative deal for a poor player, but face the consequences when you don't perform.

Just now, striker said:

I'd be letting McCormack go before Ayew.

Not for me. McCormack can offer something that are other strikers don't. Ayew Is similar to adomah kodjia and grealish 

5 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I think it's natural for fans to be slightly over the top with praise for their own players, and defensive if people are over the top with criticism of their own players. 

Doing the opposite seems a very unnatural stance to take with your own team. But that's just me.

I agree.

But I wouldn't say 'utterly wonderful' is slightly OTT as it stands. Jack has really starting to grow on me and I thought he was excellent when he came on v Brighton and that he played well yesterday.

I actually thought yesterday's game across the pitch in terms of quality was quite poor. A lot of aimless booting from both teams. That said, jack's run and pass to gabby was outstanding. 

He's certainly a positive atm but I think it'd be naive to take for granted just how hot n cold he can blow..... and I think terms like 'utterly wonderful' (whether to be taken with a pinch of salt or not) totally ignore the inconsistencies he's shown previously.

7 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Most people manage to take superlatives with a pinch of salt.

Yet most don't do the same with criticism