alienvillan

As much as I would like to see MON doing it the Ron Saunders' way I still don't think we have a squad that can challenge the big4 - or should I say the top4. And we certainly don't have - at the moment - the performance to do that.

'There's no point beating Chelski & Liverpool, if we can't beat rubbish like Wigan, Blackburn & Wolves'

What if losing to Wigan and Blackburn tells the real story? What if winning against Chelsea and Liverpool were just accidents?

I'm probably the most negative poster on here. I am the real villain!

But every game and result tells us where we are and who we are.

As far as having anything good to say about anyone at the Villa, well, the ball boys do a good job. :winkold: Concerning our manager and present squad, nope!

Yea, thought so. Is it safe to conclude that you've never had anything good to say about any Villa squad and manager you've watched?

I hate to admit it but I belong somewhere in that category.

Big Ron's 4-4-2 and Dwight Yorke in Brian Little's 5-3-2 have been the best that I have seen. Some good play during Gregory's reign and David Platt scoring in Taylor's 5-3-2 was nice also but other than that it has been ... well, not as good as I had wished for.

But I liked Doug Ellis!

Out of topic: I think Platt and Sidwell have something in common, a lot of running and less creating. The difference in Sidwell runs more sideways and Platt did it back and forward. Platt scored a few more goals also:)

So Platt was a real box-to-box player, Sidwell isn't.

Well, we beat Liverpool (away!) and Chelsea and I think that gave us a lot of confidence. And in our minds those results brought us - our faith in our squad - much closer to those of the big4.

And indeed, there isn't a massive amount of difference between the squads. But Stoke won at White Hart Lane, Wigan beat us. Maybe their squads are not as strong as our (or Spurs's) squad, but as I said - the squad is only a toolbox.

But Torres and Gerrard make the difference.

Our squad is better than Liverpool's squad without Torres and Gerrard. Those two are the difference for them. If we had them we'd be challenging for the league.

But that is a massive "if". They are fabulous players.

I guess Wolves fans would be saying "Our squad is better than Villa's squad without Agbonlahor and Young".

A strong squad is only a toolbox, that's not enough. It's how you use your tools.

Boys, Jekyll & Hyde here!

When we lose it's because of bad tactics, stinker players, poor performance and everything else.

When we win, we win the wrong way.

IMO. Beat that!

I voted go the last time and i am voting go this time. Just don't think we play the type of football that should grace Villa Park. I don't think we will gain the success we all crave playing the Martin O'Neill way and he has wasted millions on transfers. He has taken 4 years to build a solid defence and we still lack creativity in midfield and that 20 goals a season striker. Even when such a striker becomes available, he refuses to buy him. Bent's success at Sunderland should be giving O'Neill nightmares and that very player might jump up and bite O'Neill in the arse!

I want to see the type of football that 'Big Ron's' 90s team played and gained success with it. 'Big Ron' had an eye for the player who could do that something extra and win matches. Martin O'Neill views that type of player with suspicion and although we have gained some very creditable results and league finishes, i do believe with a more forward thinking manager at the helm, we would as far as quality of squad and Cup success is concerned, be much further forward.

I hope i have to eat a huge lump of humble pie at some stage inside the next year which will end the 'five year plan.' However, i sincerely doubt it and i believe O'Neill has taken us as far as he can!

I agree!

IMO our performances have not been top4 or Champions League class.

And I think Big Ron's style of play was fantastic!

And I too hope you have to eat a huge lump of humble pie at some stage - although I'll be eating the same pie myself.

But I'm still voting for MON to stay!

I want to see if MON is right, I want to see how far he can take us. I want to see if it still can be done by Ron Saunders's style.

Because I don't think we'll ever be spending the same amount of money on one single player than those big4 clubs, and pay huge wages.

I believe MON and RL have the same vision. Instead of big star players, buy youth and hidden talent.

But I don't think our recent signings are that great. They haven't shown me anything special yet. And I won't be fooled by a couple of goals scored by CBs. I need more evidence on their quality. (Further pie eating?)

I know that you are just responding to Kiwivillan's remark, but quoting a home win against Pompey is hardly a ringing endorsement of a team selection when that team arguably has its sights set on CL qualification. This is made even less appropriate by the fact that, IMO, Pompey probably matched us in that game with the exception of a silly foul by Belhadj and a great solo effort by Gabby.

This is a bit like saying forget the crap run at the end of last season with Gareth and Stan in the CM positions because we did manage to beat Hull at home in those 15 games, even though again they pressed us hard for the last 20 minutes of that game without any real threat up front.

For a very long time, according to many of our posts, the biggest reason for our misery since last February seemed to be the signing of Heskey.

Now it seems like it has been proved wrong because the reason now is (or was) Petrov (in 4-4-2).

I don't think there is any single player we can blame for our last season's downfall or this season's bad results.

And I don't think, when we have had good results this season, that there is any single player we can thank for not being in the team.

IMO the reason's have been, and are, tactical. The formations are part of it, so are the player selections, but after that the biggest factor is how you prepare yourself, how you approach the next game, what is your goal, what is in your mind when you step out of the dressing room before the kick-off. It's mental. Do you want to win or is a draw good enough?

And last season was mental disaster, IMO. Stoke 2-0 and a few minutes left, Arsenal 7 (or was it even 9) points behind. We just stopped playing, we couldn't handle the pressure. Nothing to do with Petrov, nothing to do with Heskey and nothing to do with 4-5-1 (or 4-4-2). Being 4th was just too much. We had already finished 4th in February.

For the rest of the season our tactics were defensive and we struggled. We conceded many late goals, not because of tiredness but because of catenaccio and just giving the ball away. It was like: Close your eyes, kick the ball and hope for the best, almost 90 mins. Brainless. Torture. And that begun when still eleven PL games left.

Imagine Arsenal - would they stop playing if they needed only a couple of points when five games left. No way! They would try to win as always. They finished 4th, we finished 6th.

Besides, we were never that good.

And this season with 4-4-2, maybe Sidwell should do more creative work in CM, Petrov is alone there. No wonder he gets tired.

I think Petrov can play in a 4-4-2 with the right players, but he is better in a 4-5-1 formation. Also in a 4-4-2 formation he looks **** after 60 mins.

IMO Petrov lookes **** after 60 mins because half of the time he is the only CM on the pitch.

Sidwell is so passive, always the easiest pass to the nearest team mate. And max. 10 passes/game. What kind of midfield player is that. No dribbling, no creativity. He must be the most passive midfielder in the whole professional league system, maybe amateurs included.

And then you moan about Petrov getting tired. Because he works like a horse.

IMO Petrov-NRC in the best CM.

This is the most interesting and the most exciting game of the decade. And I don't know what to say, and I don't know what to expect. And I don't want to know what to expect.

Unfortunately I won't be able to experience the intensity, the atmosphere at Villa Park. :cry:

Barry, Barry & Barry.

This was easy. Almost frustratingly easy. As a midfield maestro he was one of a kind. This just shows what kind of player we lost. He had class. Gdmn and I thought I'd got over it.

Merse is probably nr1 choice for the right wing. And Boateng was good defensive midfielder.

Barry, Barry Barry + Barry. I guess I'll be watching his moves on Monday, never mind our 4-5-1 midfield, I'll be watching Barry. And so do you!

At the moment a home game against Portsmouth must be the safest way to test if 4-4-2 from current squad is good enough to win games.

Then again, if Portsmouth score the first goal it could be struggle. But Portsmouth must also be the safest way to test if we can turn 0-1 to 2-1. Test or not, opposite side to score the first goal will happen again some time. 4-5-1 is probably the safest way to avoid that so it's interesting to see what MON decides.

Wish list:

1. Win!

2. Win big!

3. To witness this: MON: "When we start to really open up, going forward we are an absolute dream to watch."

4. 4-4-2

5. If 4-5-1, to see Sidwell dribble.

6. To see scoring opportunities created by other players than just AY

7. To see MON jumping!

I expect us to finish 7th or 8th. So top4 top5 and top6 are out of my mind. That is the reality check for me.

If we finish higher or if we are in the FA Cup Final then I will be extra happy.

I've decided to change my ways, goodbye pessimism! There is no point in moaning, it only gives me headaches. From now on I will just try to enjoy it, game by game. Less thinking and more positive enthusiasm.

For me to try to understand the game and to wrestle against MON's transfers, tactic and philosophy is too painful, especially when thing are not going well. And to expect things not to go well beforehand is the most painful state. So is the battle between ignorance and opinions.

Yes He's the MON!

At what point would you start to re-think your position on Martin O'Neill?

That point was the Wigan game. But he has two weeks to fix that, with a couple of quality signings. OR if our style of play changes. I don't mind losing (I'm an idiot) but our tactics - there is no innovation, no creativity, no intelligence, it's boring, relegation class.

Or if we just somehow start winning games, that would also fix it.

How far does your support go at a critical time in our (and other teams') chase for the top 4?

Forget about the top4. We were never that good, not even close. That was living in a dreamland.

Maybe last season and this season we could have had some chance, though, if Barry had stayed, if Laursen and Bouma would be fit and running, and if we could have had a couple of top-quality signings. And if ManC didn't have oil money.

But that was asking too much.

As the previous said: "My support for Villa is the same whether we're 1st or 20th in the league".

Being negative has got nothing to do with support or not supporting. This site (VT) in mainly mental therapy, a way to let it out, socialize. And on the contrary actually, this VT-pessimism (of mine) is a desperate tool to say something is wrong (IMO).

And I don't think we could stop supporting even if we tried.

What does Martin have to do (or not do) before you begin allowing yourself to think 'Hold on a second Martin sort it out'? Surely your support only goes so far? Only goes to a point? I want to know what that point is.

If I understood the question my answer is above.

We have high profile players ...

I don't think we do, except A Young. Especially our central midfield, there we have seven players without any profil. Reo-Coker might do as a holding midfielder but the others, they are all the same. Every player should be very different to each other, they should have special qualities, special skills, and they should complement each other. How do Delph and Petrov and Milner complement each other?

Giggs, Scholes, Keane, Beckham - that's the way it should be. On a little smaller scale.

I just want to know just how loyal the loyal ones are...

So, there is possibility to lose one's credibility here ...?

If you don't approve MON's methods you are less loyal?

Rant is becoming luxury .

Ashley Young did have a poor game but i don't think his lack of decent distribution was solely down to his lack of vision on the day. Every time he got the ball there were two or three wigan players around him and little support from his team mates. The rest of the midfield seems static when ashley has the ball and no one seems to be willing to give him an option other than to try to bundle his way through masses of opposition players. He played badly but i think our general performance highlights just how much we rely on him to pull off a bit of magic. Revert to a 5 man midfield and encourage some more movement from the players and we'll see a more dangerous Ashley Young.

I agree with this.

The problem is that we have only Ashley Young - as a creative play maker, there is no-one else. And Ashley knows it, too.

He has too much on his shoulders and he is probably trying too much.

It it doesn't help that opponents know this, too. Keep Ashley quiet and you keep the whole Villa team quiet. And there he is, against three opponents every time he get's the ball.

And there is no way of stopping this. Except one: We must sign TWO clever midfield dynamos.

I worry that in MON's previous seasons we have started well then fallen away later in the season. A bad start now and I wonder if he is capable of motivating that side we saw on saturday?

I don't think motivating would do the trick. I don't think the problems can be solved with this squad. We need someone like Paul Scholes in midfield. We need Bouma back. We need better left sided CB. We need Robbie Keane type creative striker. And what's almost worse, we need also back-ups for them.

We have now Petrov, Sidwell, Reo-Coker, Gardner, Delph, Salifou, Osbourne in the middle and non of them is a leader, a play maker, and none of them ever will be.

And none of our strikers can help our central midfielders, there is absolutely no contact, no connection. Milner is not creative, he is defensive. The only way to create goal scoring opportunities is Ashley Young's crossballs. And when Carew out, Wigan happens.

This was a bit off topic, but what can you do?

But motivating is not the key. If MON doesn't sign WS, vdV or anyone else, he has lost his grip on reality.

Stay. I haven't changed my mind but I am about to. This was only the first game of the season, so.

Without dramatic changes in formation, line-up, tactics and even attitude there will be no changes. The performance was so simple, no imagination, no creativity. That was League Division 1 style 30 years ago. Simple dull 4-4-2 formation with no idea. There has been no change since February. We need to reboot and update!

My instant thoughts after (and during) Wigan game: This means relegation.

Off topic:

I watched PSV vs. Ajax and every player in every position was better than any Villa player in any position. There are quality players out there. Wenger bought Vermaelen, ... who? By now he is already top4 class.

Yes!

But I have faith in this:

Milner ------ Reo-Coker --- Petrov ----- A Young

Albrighton - Sidwell -------- Delph ----- Downing

Gardner --- Osbourne ----- Salifou ---- Bannan

So the negatives will always be on top, you don't see the happy ones.

I thought the happy happy ones were the 'MON knows best' contingent??

And I guess the unhappy ones are the 'we know best' contingent? :nod:

Wow. The unhappy fans are winning this! Amazing...

Well, when you are not satisfied you are loud and moaning and when you are satisfied you just don't bother .

So the negatives will always be on top, you don't see the happy ones.

But I'm sure when August 15th hits us and silly season is over most of us go like this and !

YES!

Optimistic and expecting 6th position! [Goal No1 : Being reasonable!] :|

Optimistic and waiting for new signings! [Goal No2 : Having faith and trust!] :shock:

And keeping optimistic! [Goal No3 : Getting behind your team!]

It's nice to speculate again!:

--- Friedel ---

L Young --- Davies --- Cuellar --- Bouma

--- Sidwell --- Petrov

Milner --- A Young --- Downing

--- Agbonlahor ---

Who is Barry?