AvfcTheObsession

Do really like the manager, but hope we finish above them next season.

Bit of a rivalry seemed to start, maybe they didn't like someone bigger coming down to the Championship and flashing the cash.

In some ways we are similar historic clubs but I just remind fans who say they are bigger that we nearly always get bigger crowds than they do, have won more and spent a lot, lot more of our existence in the top flight (even if you compare the last 100 years only since Leeds were formed).

1 minute ago, Mjvilla said:

So, we win lots and it's Grealish. We lose lots and it's the manager. Sure

I haven't said that. This discussion started with Mantis' post that he remains unconvinced about Dean Smith being a good Championship manager, due to the way we played when we didn't have the services of the best player in the division for an extended run last time. I'm in the same camp, I believe Dean to be average rather than good at that level, hence constantly finishing in average positions with Brentford, compared to how they are doing now, as well as the awful form without Grealish as mentioned.

35 minutes ago, Mjvilla said:

I went to Bristol city at home last season (my only game), all the talk before was Grealish was out and we were sure fire to lose without him. 

We absolute smashed them. Should have won by 6/7. Their keeper had the game of his life. It's been my favourite game to go to in very recent memory. I don't go very often. 

This myth that we looked awful without Grealish, is a myth. 

That was very much the exception rather than the rule. We won only one other game without Grealish out of the 13 he missed in that run through injury.

On 04/07/2020 at 15:16, useless said:

I don't think Suso himself scouts the players he has agents and scouts that he has contacts with. One name that doesn't seem to get mentioned in all of this is Ben Hackney, he's meant to be our Head of Recruitment, came from Barnsley in April of last year.

Hadn't heard of him at all, 'Senior Player Recruitment Analyst' is his title according to his LinkedIn. I'm assuming he reports into the Sporting Director, our man Suso.

On 02/07/2020 at 14:25, Tomaszk said:

They've gone for it because they spent more than they've ever spent.

They set a new transfer record seven times.

They spent 85% of everything they brought in when they usually don't.

 

	Fees paid	Fees received	Net spend	% of income spent
2016/17	4.63	12.96	-8.33	35.73
2017/18	5.4	13.65	-8.25	39.56
2018/19	5.9	31.46	-25.56	18.75
2019/20	31.5	36.63	-5.13	86.00

It's OK to just say you want Smith sacked. You don't have to go backwards and find issues with things he's done before.

Frank looks a good coach to me but he's clearly got a better set of players to work with. I love that he knows how to play more than one formation, I wish Smith did. Unlike Aston Villa, Brentford don't buy bad players for their manager to try and form a team out of, they buy good ones who improve the side straight away.

Well, clearly before they sold that £36m of talent the summer just gone, Smith had them to work with, so I don't think it's unreasonable to think he could have done better, considering Frank is now 3rd in the league having really improved their defensive side of the game, something Smith wasn't able to do in 3 years there.

My concerns over Smith are whether he was just a pawn in the game at Brentford, and whether the recruitment and board strategies there are the real key to the success, and the much maligned '2 wins in 13' last season when Jack was out, despite having a Championship team containing the likes of Mings, Mcginn and Abraham. I have sympathies with Smith as the recruitment this summer from Suso was poor for the money spent. My gut is that we need to aim higher than DS, in order to get Top 2 next season.

They did, but is that any different to previous years when likes of Egan, Hogan, Jota, Harlee Dean, etc. have left and needed to be replaced.

18 minutes ago, weedman said:

I mean clearly in terms of net spend this year was the most they've spent out of your examples there

 

Also they signed players like Pontus, a player in his prime that likely won't go up in value, its completely against their usual model of signings unknown youngsters to resell for £20m to us a year later. It was solely to have a crack at promotion this year and is not comparable to the team Smith managed. It's like comparing man city managers pre and post takeover and saying "well they both managed man city", the conditions are so different they may as well be different teams. 

By £500k, clearly immaterial. Pontus was a different type of signing yes, after he phoned them as he knew his Leeds career was over and wanted to move there and they agreed with him. Vast majority of their signings were under 23 even summer just gone, but the new head coach has got them a lot better organised defensively than they were previously, which has been key.

17 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

Myth? How have you come to that conclusion? Because you disagree?

Are you saying this to try and reaffirm criticism of Smith out of interest? Just wondering.

Outgoings on transfers for Brentford:

 

2016/17	£4.63m
2017/18	£5.4m
2018/19	£5.9m
2019/20	Over £31.5m

Not a myth I'm afraid. Very much fact. This is the year they've gone for it.

They didn't buy gems who could develop, the bought gems ready to go right into the team.

Want to know when they signed their seven most expensive players ever? The summer of 2019.

How have you come to the conclusion they've 'gone for it' this year when they've done the same as they always do, spend the majority of what they bring in, but always have a negative net spend. They sold more star players last summer so had to spend more to replace them, but they did what they always do, brought in more than they spent, the exact same thing they did in 17/18 when Smith was there.

negative net spend summer just gone: £8m.

18/19 had a bigger negative net spend £25.5m.

17/18 negative net spend £8.5m.

They spent money on 8 players last summer, only 2 of them older than 23, Jansson was the main exception to the usual young players from abroad policy. There has been a slight change in policy in signing some others from bigger clubs, but it was still mixed with signings from Barnsley, Sparta, Piast Gliwice, Blackburn, Troyes.

17 hours ago, Zatman said:

This summer was the most Brentford ever spent in a transfer window by a huge distance

Not in terms of net spend.

19/20 negative net spend £8m.

18/19 negative net spend £25.5m.

17/18 negative net spend £8.5m.

Their model is always very similar, bring in more than you spend, the summer just gone was very much in line with 17/18.

2 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

They know what they're doing everywhere yes. This year was however the first time ever they've decided to spend some serious money. 

They deserve success.

Their signings of Jansson, Pinnock and Norgaard, has formed their new core of CB CB and DM. They were 28, 26 and 25.

EDIT: Just to say as well, if we didn't go up we needed these three positions. What are the chances we'd have ended up with three players this good for £12m? Absolutely **** zero with Suso at the helm.

I've seen this myth a couple of times now. They did no different to any other year, sold star players (Konsa this time, previously Jota, Hogan, etc) and brought in a number of gems from abroad, and still ended up with a negative net spend.

On 30/06/2020 at 10:57, Stevo985 said:

But we’d have a far better squad this time around. 

And we’d have a LOT of money to replace Jack with a quality Chanpionship midfielder. Let’s go out and buy Knockaert for example. He’s consistently one of the best players in the championship. 
 

People are taking like we’d drop down, lose our best players and not sign anyone. 
 

Smith did well at Brentford, got us promoted. I don’t know why people don’t think he could get one of the best squads in the league, which I think we’d have, promoted again

We also had a good squad last time around, but were stuck in mid-table until Grealish came back, we all agree we won't have him, or someone of that quality to do that next time.

Mings, McGinn, Hourihane, El Ghazi, Abraham were all in that team where Smith could only win 2 out of 13 games, I just see it being play-offs at best if he stays, and I want to aim for Top 2 given we'd have a large budget like you say.

I'm finding myself questioning how well he did at Brentford finishing 9th and 10th for 3 seasons, when they have carried on with the same model and are now 3rd. Maybe he was just average.

54 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

Ffp has been waived. Next season is the season to invest money into a club. If the owners don't spend 100 million plus it is unlikely that they are serious about investing in the club for the future. That is not including any money we get from grealish. 

It hasn't been waived for the EFL has it? I heard UEFA relaxed it, which affects all of the top leagues.

The owners have already showed me how serious they are with the hundreds of million they've already lost/spent on the club in such a short space of time.

57 minutes ago, Raver50032 said:

I'm sure there are league regulations about playing a much weakened team as well, so your hopeful thoughts are wasted I'm afraid. It's all about United and Palace at home, and managing a draw at Goodison. We need to do enough to make sure that Hammers away means something to us.

Nyland - never wear the shirt again please, a walking calamity waiting to happen.

And Arsenal at home, they are pretty poor this season (still favourites against us of course), but we simply have to take points against games like Arsenal at home if we are to stay up.

United, Palace & Arsenal (H) and Everton (A) - I think we will need 5-6 points at least from these to go into the final day showdown with a shot at survival at West Ham.

1 minute ago, Stevo985 said:

He got us promoted last season. With a worse squad. And a record breaking run of victories. 
 

I don’t  understand why people think he couldn’t do it again. 
 

the key question to me isn’t if he could get us promoted. It’s whether he could keep us in the Prem second time round

For me it's the fact he was never anywhere near the Top 6 with Brentford, and the fact we won 2 games out of 13 last season under Smith when Jack was injured, that injury lasts another couple of weeks or so, and we don't go up.

33 minutes ago, peterw said:

for all those that voted for Dyche, you do remember that he was relegated in Burnley's first season in the Prem, went down, came back stronger and Burnley have looked decent since. What's to say smith wouldn't follow the same path?

For me, the difference is I hardly remember Dyche having much money at all to spend when he first brought Burnley up. Granted, he'd have been unhappy with a return of 30 points, but Smith has had well over £100m to bolster the squad, and not been able to mould them into a cohesive, organised unit. That, along with the fact his Championship finishes are something like 9th, 10th, 10th and 5th (80% of the season with us), are why I would rather trust someone like Dyche next season to get us back up if we drop, I'd feel much more confident with someone with experience of Top 2 or pedigree abroad (Bielsa/Nuno types) than Smith. Brentford have also kicked on massively since he left and are 3rd, still with a shot of 2nd this season having been a lot more organised defensively under their new boss, despite again a negative net spend this summer.

Yes it did fail but was over 10 years ago, no way of knowing how this will pan out.

Key to whether it works is how successful the club is, relatively speaking. With a financial advantage if the club was to be on the up gain promotions then I'm sure people wouldn't lose interest with having the app at hand.

Quote

"This is all about people with a dream of owning a football club. To turn football on its head and take it back to the people."

This weekend, an English non-league club could have new owners - more than 2,500 of them.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47386953

Interesting new concept. Actually think it could work in the non league, massive revenue for a 6th or 7th tier club with thousands on board. Set to be a vote on Midlands team tomorrow for takeover.

We still don't really play to a system that suits Gestede (I'm not saying we should, he's not good enough to be accommodated), so I'd rather see him on the bench despite the injuries we have.

Maybe Grealish at the tip of a diamond just behind RMC and Old Kodjia on Sat.

Richards (injured/doubtful) - not that anyone sees it as a loss I'm sure

De Laet (out for the season) - assuming he just wasn't mentioned as it's such a long-term lay-off

Don't worry about whether you have 'made it' by a certain age or not, or feel down about how much you are earning just because you have friends or colleagues earning more than you.

It's always worth thinking long-term, never give up on a dream because of the time it will take to accomplish it, the time will pass anyway.

Nah, I don't believe it. It says 'Birmingham City fan from Rugby'. Sha fans always tell me all of their fans are from the Second City, but Villa fans come from Worcestershire, Warwickshire and the likes.

50 minutes ago, Czechlad said:

Half of their wins last season came against the clubs who were relegated. Now there are not terrible clubs to beat up on. 

Yep. Also as VillaChris pointed out, they normally get a win against Newcastle before Xmas which kickstarts them, and take 4-6 points off them over the season.

7 hours ago, kurtsimonw said:

I remember there being a bit of talk about that Kone moving to a better club this summer. Quite amazed at how crap he is. He'd make Lescott and Richards blush at his lack of ability and effort.

He looked good last season though when he was motivated under Big Sam.

Reminds me of Gana, if he followed his path and went to Everton I think he'd look decent again.

If I were them my order of preference would be:

Pearson

Lambert

Tactics Tim

Although Pearson is unhinged I think he has the potential to do the best job, Lambert has only really done an impressive job at one club (Norwich), although some people may disagree and think he did well here. Sherwood is hopeless in the transfer market (Richards as captain, Lescott and Gestede) to be the spine of our team in the Prem, thanks for that. That's before we mention his 'tactics' and the Cup Final and Soton away spring to mind even during his 'purple patch'.