barry'sboots

4 minutes ago, mickjacobjr said:

We have Traore Bailey bidace buendia all can play wide plus Watkins if stuck 

I'd love it if we finally got Damsgaard who we have been linked with.  From what I have seen he has the intensity to his game that El Ghazi lacks.  This would give us great options out wide with flexibility and mean that we could make changes during a game without dropping the intensity/threat.

47 minutes ago, Czarnikjak said:

You can get excellent value for £17m if you spend it wisely. Bertrand Traore and Emi Martinez cost about £17m for example. Traore is definitely a better player than Elghazi, I don't have to explain what Emi brings.

Actually half of our starting eleven cost less or around £17m (Martinez, Cash, Konsa, Targett, Luiz, Mcginn).

Back in real life, I don't see anybody actually paying £17m for him in this market, it's all just rumours.

I'd take anything over £10m.

On 24/08/2021 at 14:30, omariqy said:

Way I see it is we have one of the best back 5’s and forward players outside the top 4/5 teams. Our issue is still quality in depth and the midfield. McGinn on his day can be up there and likewise Luiz - issue is consistency. We are probably a top midfielder away from being on that level. 

If I was to categorise them

Top 6 to 8 players

Martinez
Cash
Konsa
Mings
Targett
Young
McGinn
Luiz
Bailey
Buendia
Ings
Watkins
Traore

Unknown

Sanson
Tuanzebe

Need improving on

Steer
Guilbert
Hause
Hourihane
Nakamba
El Ghazi
Trezeguet
Wesley
Davis
 

Prospects

Ramsey
Chuk
JPB

I wouldn't disagree with much of this, except I think Hause is good enough as a second choice left sided CB for a team competing for the 5th-10th spot.  I think Steer may be good enough for a second choice keeper but we haven't seen much of him recently so hard to know and I would say the same of Guilbert.

22 minutes ago, RicRic said:

Well everyone wanted Buendia as RW right midfield etc after the watford game and he was moved there for the game against Newcastle and lets be honest he was non existent and didnt do anything more there and didnt take on any of the defenders, he would be wasted there IF he does not bring that pace and speed in that area whereas Bailey would be causing destruction. Time is the essence so he will need to impress sooner or later because we need all areas to be utilised greatly, bidace has to be given a start soon as LW, he needs to be more clinical in the final third however and make better decisions but he causes tremendous problems for the opposition and will certainly be more of a dynamic nuisance than El-Ghazi

I think (hope) that there are three factors:

1. He's getting over an injury

2. He's not yet fully fit

3. He's not helped by the fact that he hasn't got legs around him - I think Watkins' running would make Buendia look better (as at the start of pre-season - accepting it was only Walsall) and Bailey's pace (or possibly JPB) on the left hand side will also stretch the defence/create more space for Buendia to operate in.  Equally, I think if we could get the balance right in our midfield then this would make Buendia's job easier/him look better.

23 hours ago, MJ_1874 said:

Tielemans - stats are about the same as McGinns (the disrespect on his name is criminal) 
Maddison - A number 10 comparable to Buendia, we'll see who end up creating the most this year
Ndidi - Defensive machine would love him
Rice - Overated can tackle ok but no where near to Ndidi's level.  Doesn't really contribute much else. £100m for him a joke.  Would prefer Bissouma.
Soucek - Weird player, ok at tackling and scoring goals but that's about it.  
Benrahma - Comparable to Bailey/Buendia/Traore we'll see who scores/assists more come the end of the season

So no we are not a million miles away from these two teams.  We are lacking a true Ndidi type player which we all know.

Tielemans - stats are about the same as McGinns (the disrespect on his name is criminal) I'm SJM's biggest fan BUT he was inconsistent for large parts of last season.  If he can recapture his pre-injury/Scotland form I think he can be great for us and on a par/better than Tielemans
Maddison - A number 10 comparable to Buendia, we'll see who end up creating the most this year I don't see Buendia as a "10" and most Norwich fans would say the same I believe.  Maybe with a strong "6" in there (an Ndidi) this would afford Buendia more licence to roam/create? Maddison as a "10" every time for me.
Ndidi - Defensive machine would love him 
Rice - Overated can tackle ok but no where near to Ndidi's level.  Doesn't really contribute much else. £100m for him a joke.  Would prefer Bissouma.  I think he's good.  I would take Bissouma over him though and definitely wouldn't value him at JG levels.
Soucek - Weird player, ok at tackling and scoring goals but that's about it.  Great second sitter/box to box 8.  Maybe not an elite/top 4 player but outside of that he does a great job and really complements Rice and a "10".
Benrahma - Comparable to Bailey/Buendia/Traore we'll see who scores/assists more come the end of the season I think he is probably better as a "10" than our three (although I haven't really seen Bailey play there!)  We will see how Buendia and Bailey do - I hope that they can eclipse Benrhama.  I think he is a more consistent threat than BT but he has had the benefit of playing in England longer.  I think/hope that BT will be a better, or at least more consistent, version of himself this season.

So no we are not a million miles away from these two teams.  We are lacking a true Ndidi type player which we all know.

I think both sides have a better "6" - we know that's our major weakness and I hope that it is addressed.  They both also have a better blend imho with proper "6"'s, "8"'s that are comfortable as second sitters/double pivots (whatever you want to call them) whilst also happy breaking forward/scoring and "10"s.

Leicester have better quality overall but I think, if we buy a strong "6" and SJM and Luiz can recapture their best form, we can more than compete with the above midfields.  And if we can bring in McKennie  and Sanson comes through (personally, I would like to see Jacob Ramsey go out on loan and get 30+ starts this season) then we would have real options/strength. 

20 hours ago, AXD said:

Same could be said about Norwich, who even have more experience in the PL. I'm not saying Brentford can't do well and perform like sheffield or wolves in their first season, but more often newly promoted teams struggle. Especially those coming up through the play-off final. Our own club as an example: on paper we had a good team with mings, mcginn, heaton and one of the greatest talents in England with Grealish. A good manager, strong support, wealthy owners,... everything to succeed and we still struggled because the step-up to the PL is massive. For every Sheffield (1 lucky season was followed by a horrible one) or Wolves, you have twice as many Fulhams, Norwichs, WBAs or even to a lesser extent Newcastle or Brighton (lower mid-table at best).

So yes any team has the potential with a bit of luck, but to state this as a certainty is farfetched. I hope for Brentford to avoid relegation, but expect a difficult season. Happy to be proven wrong.

I agree with est1874, I think Brentford are the best positioned (assuming they don't suffer injury to key players) to stay up of the promoted teams:

• They have a front foot way of football that is well developed and well drilled - a little like Leeds but more pragmatic (at least to the initial Leeds).  There was a recent TIFO article that explained really well the way that they play and recruit into that style of play.
• As mentioned above, their recruitment is very smart.
• They have kept their best players from the Championship (last season) and have built a consistent squad over their time in the Championship and haven't had to make wholesale changes like we and Fulham did.

It will be really interesting to see their progress.

You mentioned Sheff U - I think their big issue in their second season was largely down to poor recruitment, the loss of Henderson and a few key injuries early on?  Once they had lost that momentum they were always playing catch up.  I also think their game was better suited to playing in front of crowds - huge support at home and backs to the wall/never say die away from home?

20 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

The 6 players who played in midfield last night:

Tielemans
Maddison
Ndidi
Rice
Soucek
Benrahma

Not one of our midfielders would start ahead of those.

Anyone saying that what we have gets us anywhere near a top 8 finish is off their tits.

We need 2 new players in there. Or 1 and we settle for somewhere around 11th.

Just depends how patient the board are for success. 

I think SJM (of Scotland form, pre-injury in the first season and last couple of games is on a par with these) and I think Dougie (of post project restart) is also, but neither have been consistent recently (Dougie is obviously still very young).  I am not sure yet where Sanson sits.

We certainly don't have a Rice or Ndidi type though and that is a key requirement for me.  Another "8" (McKennie or Rafinha) would give us another quality option for a 4-3-3 which I think suits SJM/our personnel better.

I agree with your view on position etc..

18 hours ago, jacketspuds said:

Playing devil's advocate a bit here, but you said that you think the current squad can finish 5th-10th. When Grealish was out last season our form was pretty terrible, and we now find ourselves in a position where we don't have him in the team anymore.

Surely in order for us to finish as high as 5th, we would need all of our new attacking signings to hit the ground running. Ings looks like he has but we can't expect the same of Buendia and Bailey who, in my view, are going to be crucial for replacing what Grealish gave us.

I'm expecting Traore to be better this season now that he has settled in, but we would do well to finish in the top half at the moment.

 

We are 10th now and I'd gladly take that at the end of the season IF we don't do any more business.

1 minute ago, HalfTimePost said:

Ah I'd missed TSS naming the club, last I saw from them they were saying they'd release the name of the club once he was given the go ahead. Shame that!

Southampton will have a very interesting (and young/developmental) full back pairing with Small and Livramento.

11 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

That would be some window, I would love that but I suspect that there is as much chance of my wife asking me if I would mind if she brought her hot friend back to our house for a threesome. 

I know - I don't expect it to happen ... the signings that is, I'm really not sure as to how realistic the threesome option for you is!! 

But it seems such a shame when they are all available and at "sensible" prices; we have the FFP headroom, as I understand it, following Jack's transfer; and that net spend is a drop in the ocean for our owners and is relatively small given the investment to date.  It seems like another opportunity to take a big step on their stated aspirational 5 year plan that we potentially look like spurning? 

I hope that we are both surprised with the final week of the window ... and you with some hot threeway action!  

Three signings - Doucoure, McKennie & Damsgaard - and three out - Nakamba, Hourihane & El Ghazi - for me would be a great window (excepting the loss of he who shall not be named!).  All do-able it seems and would give us a net outlay for the window of circa £40-50m.  That would, imho, give us many more options for rotation/cover/impact subs with two good options for every position (4-3-3) and move us from a 10-15th placed team to a 5-10th placed team.

12 hours ago, mikeyp102 said:

Ive just noticed it’s the Buendia thread, so getting in topic, he’ll grow into the team especially with Traore and Bailey running the wings outside him.

I don't see him as a "10" from everything I have read and seen.  I think he is a right winger that drifts centrally.  Lots of Norwich fans saying the same i.e. that he never played well when used as a "10".

I think we'll see him on the RW in either a 4-3-3, as at the weekend, or a 4-4-2/4-4-1-1 with Ings and Bailey up top.  Traore will be the back up/rotation - which is not a bad position for us with two quality options on the right.

I think we'll see a better Buendia when there is pace around (Bailey and Watkins) to stretch the opposition back line and create the space for him to operate in.

7 minutes ago, Steero113 said:

 

I think if he had scored 25 league goals from Central Midfield they would have changed their mind. 

Again, I get the point on Connor, but 25 goals from CM would be a second tier record in all of the 130 years of the league...

I guess that is the point - he would have to over compensate with goals for the lack of product elsewhere on the pitch.

3 minutes ago, Steero113 said:

I mean that's fairly over the top but I take the general point you're making. 

I don't think it is over the top - I would have gone with a higher number.

I guess the proof of the pudding is asking the Swansea fans if they would want him back?

Like El Ghazi, CH can hit a ball but he is just two yards off the pace and lacks the energy or intensity to play at a high level UNLESS you can build your team around him and just let him do what he does.

35 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

You could be right, mate.

I still think a loan for Chuk would do him good. 

Personally, I would probably keep him around this year as cover/bench option (a bit like Ramsey was last year) and, unless he does something stunning, would look to loan him out next season to a top half Championship side to play 30+ games and really prove himself/develop with a view to bringing him back as a fully fledged first teamer (assuming he develops as we all expect) the following year.  Similar to how Liverpool have developed Elliott??

3 minutes ago, AVTuco said:

Don't sign any more 15 million players. They're useless, we got enough of them already. A real bang or nothing.

Didn't we buy Konsa for £12m - I know he still needed a bit of nurturing - and Martinez for £17m?  That's some pretty good value around the £15m mark??

We aren't "yet" (hopefully) big enough to compete at the real bang end of the market and I personally believe we can build successfully the way we are going.  I think Doucoure at £15m is partly a function of the position of the French clubs and the market.  From what I have seen/heard, I would certainly be happy with this £15m??

5 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

Is it? I thought they were all fleeing to places  like Cornwall and Shropshire?

1. Not many PL clubs readily accessible from either of those places?

16 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

I suppose it’s about getting the right balance @Phil Silvers between now and the future. Live for today but keep one eye on the future sort of thing. 

The thing that the right sort of quality player, with a bit more experience,  brings is not just what he brings to matches but what he gives to the younger players. Playing with better players around you has all the obvious advantages but it’s the things that we perhaps don’t see that can be a huge bonus for the future.
 

The club is steadily growing, players are individually improving both as players and as team mates. “Be a good team mate”, is one is Dean’s favourite phrases. I think the club take this type of philosophy seriously. We’re putting together a group of people, from NSWE, senior members of staff, coaches, recruitment, analytics guys, commercial staff, groundsmen, maintenance guys and of course don’t forget Doris, who are all pulling in the same direction. Whatever their individual role may be, large or small, they’re all singing off the same hymn sheet. 
 

I think this is a very exciting time for the club. Of course people in such a large group will have various individual needs and ambitions, but they have to be achieved under the broad spectrum of what the club is trying to achieve. If that’s not possible then there’s always a club somewhere, possibly in the north west, that might be more suited to the individual in question. 

Spot on.

I also think people sometimes ignore the benefit that a younger player might get by going out on loan to a less pressured environment and getting regular minutes.  Billy Gilmour will go out to Norwich and play 30 games + this season and come back to Chelski a much better player (as Mount did before him), where he will either be capable of participating or will be sold for decent money.  Harvey Elliott had a great experience at Blackburn and is now back and keeping Thiago on the bench. 

The big clubs don't stop their buying to allow the kids to come through, they continue to bring in quality and then challenge their youngsters to be better than that quality or, worst case, sell them on for decent fees.  I hope that we are about to start acting like a big club!  There are pathways as Elliott and Curtis are showing at Liverpool and Foden is showing at Citeh but there should not be guarantees and the development plan/pathway should always be tailored to suit the individual.  I think the development of our youth alongside continued strong recruitment and development of our coach/manager will define how successful NSWE will be and there is no room for romanticism in there.

14 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

I don’t really think he’s improved at all tbh. Genuinely, I don’t. 

I'm with you 100%.  As said above, I don't hate the guy either and would always support him if I was at VP but I don't think he is anywhere near good enough to be a part of our squad if we (or I should say the owners) have the aspirations I believe that they have.

HITC features a tweet from Aston Villa Statto:

"Number of times an Aston Villa player has mis-controlled a pass this season: Anwar El Ghazi - 11 Danny Ings - 4 Jacob Ramsey - 4 Matty Cash - 3 Tyrone Mings - 2".

This is just symptomatic of El Ghazi's game from my perspective.  He just lacks intensity.  I always feel that he might have a goal in him and certainly can take a penalty but he adds nothing outside of this for me.  No assists last year is telling for a wide attacking player.

I would love to see him sold - I thought he cost £8m and I would sell for this or above which I think his goal output alone might justify - and replaced with Damsgaard, who we keep getting linked with.  This would give us four quality wide options in Buendia, Traore, Damsgaard and Bailey, who are all interchangeable to an extent, with JPB as a very credible fifth option/bench cover.  We would potentially have a really exciting bench then - as wingers and "9"s are typically the key subs used to change a game.  However, even if we don't sign Damsgaard (or equivalent), I would still be happy to see him depart as I believe that Young and JPB offer better options.

5 minutes ago, sne said:

Doubt he is good enough with the ball to be starting games at DCM/midfield but late in the games if we are defending a lead it might work in a pinch. 

From what I remember of the last time he was here his biggest weakness as a CB was his aerial ability but hopefully he's improved that since then.

I agree.

He certainly wasn't great at RB when Bruce was playing him there as he struggled to get forward/play the ball.  Not helped, I'm sure, by having Jedi inside him at CB!!

Equally, I am not sure we should be looking to develop his game in an area of the pitch that is crucial to us when he will make mistakes there as he learns and we won't necessarily benefit from his learning longer term as he is only on loan with no option to buy.

Great as a third/fourth choice CB that could also allow us to switch to a three at the back if needed but, as much as I like Axel as well, I wouldn't look beyond this at this stage. 

I didn't get to watch the full game as was out - just caught snippets.  Is he now of a standard that people are happy with him as a potential starter in a 4-3-3 when we are chasing for top half OR would people rather we invested in a, say, Rafinha or McKennie (giving us three/four experienced options at "8" depending what we do at "6"/how you see Luiz) and let Ramsey go out on loan for 30+ games with a, say, Swansea or Bristol City?  He clearly benefitted from the less pressured environment at Doncaster where he was able to add goals to his game.

Personally, I would rather he developed in a less pressured environment in the Championship for 12 months and then came back a more experienced player (or was sold on for a profit depending how the other four worked out).  

On 15/08/2021 at 14:34, Villa_Vids said:

In my opinion, he is done. We both have to move on. Does not have that fight in him when the going gets tough during a game, I saw no reaction in the second half like I did in the other players. I believe that is a huge part of being really successful in English/British football. He is one of the best technically, nobody would dispute that claim but there is no heart in him. I would love to be wrong, and he turns into a consistent reliable winger. Highly unlikely. Time for Smith to make a tough decision and move him on. We need to be ruthless if we want to challenge at the top.

I've said it before but for me he is the Hourihane of the wide players.  He has a good shot on him (albeit it has become a bit too predictable as he tries to cut in and shoot every time) but he offers nothing else.  As you say, he has no heart for a fight.

No assists last year says it all.  If I was Watkins/Ings and saw AEG's name on the team sheet, I would sigh heavily!

If Roma really want him and will pay anything above £10m for him I would snap their hand off (he's obviously played with Tammy before) and I would re-invest in Damsgaard or McNeil - 4 wide players of Buendia (I don't see him as a "10"), Traore, Bailey and Damsgaard with JPB in the squad/on the bench/covering injuries would be quality.

Again, as you say, I think he could have a good career in a more technical league.

9 minutes ago, VillanousOne said:

It's annoying that we are playing winnable games at a time when fitness, lack of preseason, lack of cohesion (some of these players have still never played together) and injury is ripping is a new one.

Presuming Bailey won't start then:

                  Ings

Anwar --- Ramsey --- Buendia 

Doug --- McGinn

Targett (or Young) -- Mings -- Konsa -- Cash

Martinez

Is about is a good as it gets and to be honest we'll still struggle with that side, it will be even worse if for some reason he persists with Young on the left wing and Anwar on the right.

 

Just interested - why would you start El Ghazi ahead of JPB??  On the basis of pre-season, I would have the kid way ahead of him.

Just now, Delphinho123 said:

There will be a mini meltdown in here tomorrow if we lose, which is a real possibility. 

Some of it will be justified and some of it won’t. 

I fully expect us to struggle tomorrow because everything points to us doing so. 

I think, if Smith gets his selection right tomorrow (imho - a 4-3-3 with the same midfield that ended the Watford game, Ash at LB, and Buendia (RW) and JPB (LW) either side of Ings) we should have enough to beat the Geordies BUT I don't believe he will if last Saturday is anything to go by!