VillaFaninLondon

7 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

because we've spent big money and gerrard said he wanted his business done before pre season

i think the only way we see new signings is if someone like dougie leaves

But we haven't in recent times - last summer we actually spent less than we brought in by about 5m. This summer net spend of approx 25-30m so far. Including Digne in January that's a net spend of around 50m over the last two summers. 

4 minutes ago, PaulMcGrath_5 said:

Preece reckons we aren't interested in a midfielder--pinch.of.salt.

Pinch of salt indeed, Preece knows absolutely sod all, even Gregg Evans has more insight than him. But like a broken clock that is right twice a day, I fear he will be right on this occasion. 

8 hours ago, tomav84 said:

dread to think what this place is going to be like when the transfer window slams shut and we haven't signed another player

hate to break it to some on here, but that's a very real possibility

i think young signing an extension puts the search for another LB on hold for a start

You're not breaking it to anyone, that's the reason we're getting annoyed because it is a very real possibility and it gives off the impression that everyone at the club is happy to continue finishing midtable which is where we'll finish if we go into next season with the current squad.

I personally feel we are sadly done for a couple of reasons: 1) Gerrard said he wanted his business done before preseason games started; and 2) there have been no decent links to anyone for at least a month.

The only thing giving me hope is Gerrard said that this summer window would be really exciting for the club (which would contradict what we have done so far) and the fact that we are usually very quiet about who we want so we may be doing a lot of stuff under the radar. 

I'd give the window a 6/10 so far. Certainly not been bad at all as we have signed two quality players in positions we needed to improve, but we still haven't solved Luiz and Carney's contract situations, and need at least one more player to go into the first team (a box to box midfielder) especially if Luiz goes but even if he doesn't. If we were to sell Ings for example and bring in a striker better than Watkins that would improve the window even further and the icing on the cake would be another CB but I don't see this happening and think Mings will be given one more season. We have also only sold Trez, Targett and Kalinic so far and we still have El Ghazi, Davis, Hause (who's now bloomin injured so probably won't get sold) and others on the books. So a 6/10 feels about right. 

1 hour ago, paul514 said:

We assume they are a serious threat because of their owners but they haven't been spending more than we have.

Not yet.

1 hour ago, villa4europe said:

What is converting regularly though? 

We've never had a player score 20 goals in the PL

Ollie has 14 and 11 in 2 seasons, Benteke had 19, 10, 13, Carew had 13, 11, 10, I probably don't need to do gabby... Angel had 1, 12, 1, 16, 7, 3, 4 even Yorke had 11, 6, 6, 17, 17, 12

Give him 3 more full seasons here and he'll have more PL goals than Gabby 

Sure but come on, Gabby should not be a benchmark for a quality striker. The guy had 2 maybe 3 seasons of promise, but ultimately turned into a very poor player. He's only heralded as some kind of 'legend' because of his goals against the Noses. And Ollie would still need to score around 50 goals in 3 seasons to better his record which I don't see happening. 

Benteke is more of a benchmark and probably would have scored 20 at least once for us if: a) he wasn't playing in a poor team that was battling relegation every year; and b) didn't have his injuries in his 2nd and 3rd seasons with us. He scored 42 PL goals in 89 games so practically 1 in 2. Watkins is about 1 in 3 in a better team. 

Yorke's stats are blighted by a couple of things: 1) he started as a right winger for us and only moved to striker in 95/96; and 2) he usually played in a two up front with either Savo or later Collymore. He scored 46 PL goals in 103 games for us playing as a striker which again is practically 1 in 2. 

Maybe I'm being a bit harsh on Watkins as we haven't exactly had world beating strikers over the years, but there were some who said he could become like a Vardy for us. I just don't see him ever being that reliable at all if I'm honest.

20 minutes ago, Xela said:

The top 6 is miles out of reach for us at the moment. 

7th would be winning the league for us. 

I don't disagree, the spending of the top 6 really is off the scale at the moment. Even Spurs throwing money around like there's no tomorrow, God knows where they're getting their money from, Levy is usually extremely tight fisted. 

I do think the longer we go without getting into Europe the harder it will be though, purely because Newcastle are now a serious threat. 

26 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Why would Hickey want to move to a club where he needs to wait *3-4 years* for serious game time, when he can instead move to a club who will give him game time next season and finished above us in the table? And don't you think that there will be another talented young left back we can find when we go looking in 1, 2 or 3 years' time?

Are you a closet Brentford fan?

12 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I'm not really disputing that Jesus is a worse/better player than Watkins - just that spending £45m on Jesus does not mean we have a drastically better striker.  I think you're completely wrong in your "little secret, he would be by far" bit - and there's nothing that demonstrates that Jesus would outscore Watkins in a season; partly because he never has.

Obviously no-one knows whether Arsenal were or were not interested in Watkins but part of the reason they have gone for Jesus is because he was available.  Man City have signed Haaland - they don't need Jesus and are happy to recoup £45m for him.

 

Also, you're not comparing apples with apples there.  To do so would be to look at their tallies whilst playing in that central striker role.  Jesus scored 1 in 8 there last season, Watkins scored 10 in 31 - and Watkins plays in a much inferior team which creates nowhere near the same number of chances.  1 in 8 a clear improvement over 1 in 3 "by far"?  I'll take your word for it.

Fair but on the other side of that argument you could argue it's a lot harder to stand out and score/assist regularly in that City side because they have so many good players. Look at Grealish FFS, 3 goals and 3 assists last season playing in a 'much better' team compared to 6 goals and 10 assists for us the season before. Watkins is the focal point of our attack so should be scoring regularly. And while we're obviously not at City's level, we have enough creativity for a decent striker to be converting regularly IMO.

Anyway this is a fairly moot argument as I'd much rather we bring in a no 8 to replace McGinn before bringing in another striker, but I think we need to try to upgrade both.

34 minutes ago, Mazrim said:

Bailey has played as a striker and could conceivably perform that role for us as we typically play one striker who needs to be able to pull wide. Please assume I know all about our own players.

And Mercurial as in changeable in form and mood (more so Bailey), but fine. Lets say inconsistent then.

Do you honestly think there's no level between Jonathan David and Mbappe?

I'm not sure he has played up front much but to be fair I'm not against the idea. I still want Bailey to come good and given Gerrard won't play with any recognised wingers that might be the only chance Bailey has of playing every week. 

Mercurial in my mind suggests a gifted footballer with all the skill in the world but who only turns up when he wants and doesn't put the effort in, someone like Taarabt or more recently Pogba even. Don't think Ollie fits that description, in fact the opposite, I think he always puts the effort in but he's just not that good.

I'd just like to know who these strikers you mention are who are a level above. David is widely considered one of the best young strikers in Europe yet is widely scoffed at on this forum, I don't really know why.

57 minutes ago, bobzy said:

With the probable exception of Haaland, all of those signings are "risks" and all of them are north of £45m.

Jesus is a decent player, but he hasn't outscored Ollie Watkins in the Prem and is basically the same age.  Why should we be spending a very sizeable chunk of money on a player who is not guaranteed to improve us?  There's just no need for that sort of gamble when we already have good strikers.

So you genuinely think Jesus would not be an improvement on Watkins? I'll let you into a little secret, he would be by far. That's why Arsenal went for him rather than Watkins because he's a better player.

Scoring stats between Jesus and Watkins are irrelevant because Jesus has played out wide quite a lot for City and has also had far fewer minutes than Ollie has had for us. 

Let's compare apples with apples, over the last 2 seasons these are their stats:

• Watkins: 6278 minutes, 25 goals, 7 assists: a goal or assist every 196 minutes
• Jesus: 3927 minutes, 17 goals, 12 assists: a goal or assist every 135 minutes

That's ignoring the general abilities of both players - Jesus is much better technically than Ollie and links up much better with his team mates. The only thing Ollie has over him is his pressing but I wouldn't say there's much in that either. I actually think if Arsenal play Jesus as an out and out striker he will score 15-20 goals a season without fail. 

Nunez after Haaland was probably the most clinical striker in Europe last season. It's a very low risk Liverpool are taking and I'm pretty sure he'll do very well. 

Richarlison maybe so and Spurs have probably overspent a bit there, but playing in a better side he should do well and he'll be an amazing player to bring off the bench or for rotation. 

20 minutes ago, Mazrim said:

Bailey and Watkins are similar mercurial 'need a bit of fine tuning' players and we already have them.
I think we should go straight for a level above that, and we may well do.

Bailey isn't a striker and the last thing I'd describe Watkins as is 'mercurial'. 

I'd love to know who the level above striker is that you're talking about because we ain't going to be getting Mbappe or Vlahovic. It will come with an element of risk, as most transfers do these days, but that's where clever scouting and diligent legwork come in. 

45 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Lol, there are more " prestigious " clubs than us, struggling to find elite strikers, and players for certain positions.

Unless some of you just want us to keep exciting unknown names coming through the door just because, like in our first season back?

Arsenal - Jesus

City - Haaland

Spurs - Richarlison

Liverpool - Nunez

Someone like Jonathan David could easily turn into a 20-goal a season striker with the right fine-tuning. Would certainly have more confidence in him doing it than Ollie or Ings anyhow especially as he's still very young. Only problem is he will cost 40m+ and it looks like we don't want to take the risk. 

52 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

not including this summer wolves have spent £30m less than us in the last 5 years, more importantly they spent some of it whilst still in the championship and didn't have to build a team from scratch, they had a head start on us

but I think the main thing you're missing is that money isn't enough, it doesn't guarantee progress up the league and I've not seen 21/22 wages yet but 20/21 we were 12th in the wages league so we weren't top 10 payers - at some point the management has to factor in, especially as we have changed manager

add to that I personally think palace have bought really well for a few years now and they'll be competing with us this year, good young team 

Yes this is true but you more you invest and the more you pay in wages it’s perfectly reasonable to expect a return on that. It's also a bad sign for the club if we're investing but not actually progressing to where we should. 

I’d also like to see your sources for those wages, I really can’t believe that we’re the 12^th highest in the league, I thought we were around 10^th before the start of last season and that was before we signed Ings, Carlos, Digne, Coutinho, Kamara etc who are all on over 100K per week. I’d say our wage spend is easily the top 10 in the league and most likely top 8 now.

Teams can spend big money and still be sh*t, just look at Everton, but we don’t want to be like them. We want to be a well-run club that spends its money well and performs at the level it should be performing at (even better if it’s performing above that level).

29 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

I think we should be 2 or 3 places up the league in management alone, the squad is there, strikers in particular, Gerrard has to make them 2 work, we have top 10 strikers options he has to give them the confidence and training to get them firing

add to that, again striker in particular, he now needs to get the squad together and have a good look at it, see who has come back fit, see who has come back better, i know he said he wants to do his shopping before oz but i think he needs a month to assess his options and see what's already there, Archer jumps out at me so does KKH

then we can go shopping again, replace who we can sell, the 3 england U19 boys wont be ready, sanson and luiz create a problem because im not sure we will shift them easily, next summer and the next couple of summers isn't so much a rebuild its integration 

I think we're a new CM and a fully fit motivated well managed team away from top 10 personally, at some point Gerrard has to do his job! that could be the difference this summer

I know we've lowered our expectations massively and we are competing against a lot of teams, but top 10 should be a given with what we have invested in this squad. We should have done it last season with our squad. Wolves have spent less than us yet have managed it three times in four seasons since promotion (albeit with some help from Jorge Mendes and his clients). 

With the wages we are now paying top 10 should be happening whether we recruit anyone else or not IMO. Of course it doesn't help that Newcastle have come along with all their billions now but we should still be getting ahead of the other teams without our resources like Brentford, Palace, Brighton etc. 

I think our ambition has to be Europe and top 7 and right now we are very unlikely to achieve that. 

Just now, Steero113 said:

Leicester are looking like losing Tielemans and have signed the square root of f**k all so far. 

They have a number of ageing players in their squad. 

If we have a forum full of moaning myrtles after signing two huge improvements, imagine how there fans must be feeling. 

They need a massive July in terms of signings to be "fighting for that final European spot" imo. 

Tielemans still there. If he leaves Leicester are usually very good in the market and will likely replace him well. They also have no Europe and despite having what was considered a 'poor' season last season they still finished 8th. 

I actually think Leicester are probably regressing a bit and agree with you on that, but still would have to them finish above us as it stands. 

6 minutes ago, hippo said:

You really think a couple more players will bridge that gap ?

We signed 2 additional players to make an impact at first team level.  Most of our players are international or borderline international.

Top 10 imo should be achievable with what we have. 

Beyond that it's the law of diminishing returns - you would have to spend massively more to get top 6 let alone top 4.

Let's not forget before NSWE we were an absolute basket case of a club - top 10 is fine with me.

If they are of significant quality and an improvement on what we have at CM and ST then yes. I think we'll certainly be on a par with Leicester and West Ham who IMO will be fighting for that final European spot. 

1 minute ago, Mazrim said:

Kamara, Coutinho, Carlos, Olsen and Young.

Two of them are new (Kamara and Carlos). Three were here last season (one from the start and two from January). 

I don't understand why people get so b*tchy on this forum, it's as if you say something even moderately controversial (which complaining about lack of activity really isn't) then you get called out for it.

If next season we are competing for Europe with the current squad and we have a successful season I will hold my hands up and admit I was wrong, but I think deep down everyone knows that will not be the case and we will be midtable again. It's not attacking the club to say they have to do more to bridge that gap.

What will really anger me is if Luiz is sold and we don't sign a quality replacement because that will really not be on. 

1 minute ago, Steero113 said:

                 Martinez

Cash   Carlos   Mings   Digne

                  Kamara

        McGinn      Ramsey

Buendia   Watkins   Coutinho

 

Would like to see a possible rotation/replacement for SJM at CM but other than that I am delighted with our first 11 thanks. 

Off the bench we have countless options. 

We DON'T need an upgrade at striker, nor are there any available that would come to us that would materially be an upgrade on Watkins or Ings. 

 

That's always the excuse.

6 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

We've signed 5 players

The moaning is boring 

5 new players? Who? 

We've signed 2.

6 minutes ago, Steero113 said:

It's like Carlos, Coutinho and Kamara don't exist.... 

Not enough for us to make significant strides. Midtable again, we may be lucky to finish 10th. I hope I'm wrong but I don't think I will be.

3 minutes ago, Tayls said:

We are definitely nearly done. We might get one more through the door but that will be all. Finances are obviously being tightened a tiny bit in terms of transfer fees. I mean, £50-60 million so far isn’t to be sniffed at, and if we do get one more, let’s say that’s £80million. Not bad is it? 

Ashley Young signing for another season, whilst I love him, it’s not exactly representative of the super progressive/aggressive new style of play we were all hoping for with some ‘big’ name players in their prime, or close to it. 

For me it’s simple, the mega money just isn’t there. 

We've spent 45m and brought in c. 20m. Our net spend so far is 25m and we finished 14th. Really not enough at all to improve considerably which is what I thought the plan was next season.

6 minutes ago, MWARLEY2 said:

Hickey  whether of the right quality or not is a first XI player. It is obvious who is our first choice.our 25 mill french left back Lucas Digne who if he carrries on the same form he ended last season in , will get about 15 assists. And that our first choice rb is Cash who was our player of the season. 

It isnt as simple as buying up all the talent. Its about utilising the talent once bought.  

This lad has been playing full seasons of football at a young age  . He is never going to come and sit on thebench for 75 percent of the season. 

Its the exact reason Targett left us. 

It's not buying up all the talent, it's having a squad that can compete in all competitions and with the five subs rule next season, injuries, suspensions etc Hickey would get plenty of games. As usual most equate it to being about the player not happy to come and sit on the bench when in reality I reckon the club just didn't want to spend a significant amount of money on a squad player even though it is what is needed for us to be competitive. Ashley Young was not good in most games he played last season apart from a couple of assists early on when Gerrard came in. 

I'm more concerned however that they are happy with the first 11 as it is now and we won't see any upgrades to CM or ST which means Watkins and McGinn playing every minute of every game again.

3 minutes ago, PaulMcGrath_5 said:

 

He said it best. 

I just have the foresight unlike you to realise that limited activity this window and not fixing our issues once again will mean next season will be seen as yet another 'transition' season where we'll be stupidly inconsistent, frustrating and will ultimately end in disappointment once again. The life of a Villa fan I suppose, constant disappointment.

1 minute ago, nick76 said:

Why would Hickey come here though and essentially wait for 3-4 years when he can likely get a starting place now at Brentford?  Even if we had matched the bid, I’d be surprised he would come here as back up than starter at Brentford.

But he can cover multiple positions so we'd clearly give him plenty of gametime while he;s maturing. 

Even so Brentford have Henry who's quite highly rated over there so although he's got more chance of starting at LB for them, it's hardly a given.