Pimlico_Villa

1 hour ago, terrytini said:

Ok it’s a fair question !

Key would still be performance.

Consecutive poor performances would worry me much more than consecutive defeats.

But I guess around 6/7 consecutive defeats- if allied to some below par performances ( which I think it’s fair to think they would be, one couldn’t argue that many defeats were luck/ tactics/ bedding in)...would most likely dent my optimism.

Only dent though.

I don’t think that many consecutive defeats is particularly unlikely, nor intrinsically harmful. 

It won’t  be how many we lose in a row that matters.

I personally wouldn’t view it that way anyway.

If we are, after all, better than 6 /8 sides in this League it may well not fully show until the final third of the Season.

Its very common for - especially mid table teams - to front load or back load their points.

So I would look more at say 12/12/16 points across each third of the season.

Say 13/12/13 games.

So I’m looking for 12 Points from our first 13 games.

So, back to your point, if we Won 4 of those we could lose 9. Irrelevant whether that’s 9 in a row or not.

Hence 2 defeats. Or 3 by Friday, or 4 by next week etc, won’t bother me much if we look ok.

I struggle with the logic there. If we are playing well but still  losing, doesn't that make it a bit futile?

He’s in desperate need of a dedicated striker coach. Would love to see Terry convince Drogba to come in and work with him for a month or two. Has the right physical ingredients but needs some specific Premier League coaching. 

1 hour ago, VillaCas said:

After all the overblown excitment of the transfer window where many were looking forward to top ten or higher finishes, we are down to earth with a bang - the top teams (Spurs), even on a bad day will wear you down and the middling teams (Bournemouth) have discovered the killer touch and organised resistance that is required to win points

At the moment we are in adjustment mode - mistakes that are inconsequential in the Championship, U23 or Belgian Leagues are critical in the PL - Against Bournemouth we did not start with the concentration required and only really got going 15 mins in when it was too late.

I beleive that Elmo and Taylor are playing because DS and Terry realise that you can't change everything at once - Heaton, Engels, Luiz, Trez, Wesley are all finding their feet with a new club, the rest are getting used to the speed and athleticism of the PL - Only Mings, SJM and perhaps Engels seem to have settled quickly

I didnt buy into the hype during pre-season - we (seem to have) bought some solid players and they gelled well against limited (Leipzeg apart) opposition but the cauldron of the PL is a different matter entirely. £130m (?) spread over a dozen players only buys "solid" not "spectacular". 

We obviously do not have unlimited resources BUT another winger and another striker (or even just one wide forward) woud have made all the difference. Our bench does not give many forward options - imagine how differnet it would have been if we had Maupay and Benhrama to bring on (or start). AEG and Jota look like bit part players so far. We've not seen Nakamba but we have cover in midfiled so I'd have prefered to spend that money on a forward option instead

The players have the ability to get much better. Jack in particular is too good a footballer not to take lessons from the first couple of matches and adjust his game - at the moment I think he is trying too hard and as players around him adjust and improve he will go from strength to strength - we do need to get better quickly though. If we continue on for a while without a win, the nervousness and frustration could find players going backwards not forwards

For me it will all stand or fall on Wesley - lets hope the scouting team have got it right and he delivers what is expected. He's trying hard I think but I've been unwhelmed with what Ive seen so far. Not many occasions where you can think "wow hes going to be a player". If Smith can't get a tune out of him then its going to be a very long hard season

I trust Smith to get things right and find a way of playing that produces results but I'll be very happy this term to finish 17th - I'm expecting a long and frustrating season, we need to manage expectations and guard against being overly critical

 

Agree 100%.

Looks lively at times but has to improve his athleticism to be effective in this league. 

21 hours ago, EverBlue86 said:

Looking forward to this one a fixture I've missed in recent years. 

Defensively we've been very good with about 8 clean sheets in 13 games - Pickford gets the plaudits but Keane & Mina have been fantastic at the back for us.

 

Going forward depends what team turns up - if we are on song we can rip teams to shreds but when we are not we love wasting chances.

Calvert Lewin is championship level and all last year it was like playing with 10 men - He's played the last 2 games due to Kean having no pre season but Kean came off the bench against Watford and looked impressive so I hope he starts - Iwobi will also make an appearance at some point who I think was a shrewd signing for us as he was Arsenals biggest creator of chances last season and one of the best in the league which we do need as Siggurdsson can blow hot and cold.

If you set out to defend I think it could be a 1-1 result.

If you come out attacking and let us play on the counter I think 1-3 Everton.

I imagine we will likely go:

 

                    Pickford

Coleman Keane   Mina Digne

               Gbamin   Gomes

Richarlison     Gylfi      Bernard

                        Kean

 

Would rather Iwobi over Bernard but I think he will likely come off the bench having had no game time as of yet. The Snake may also make an appearance off the bench if fit!

Anyway lets hope for a great match!

Have just winced at the prospect of Elmohamady coming up against either Bernard or Iwobi. Only positive for us from that is that it finally gives Smith the excuse to drop him. 

I don' think we will set up to defend, given we are at Home and doing so isn't really in Smith's vocabulary, so expecting an open game.

How quick and good in the air are Keane and Mina? 

The issue with VAR is that, I believe, it is still operated by Referees. And we all know that Referees are largely incompetent and will do nothing but look out for one another. 

The operators in the studio should be independent. 

Yes, I know we are basing this on only two games, but I would have expected to have at least seen the raw ingredients from him. He did well to hold off Sanchez for our goal last week, but he's subsequently looked well off the pace. 

I think the comparisons with Benteke are quite short sighted. Yes, they are both tall and came from the Belgian League, but apart from that I can't see any other similarities. Benteke was rapid and brilliant in the air, Wes is mid-paced and isn't winning bulk of aerial challenges.

I think he'd really benefit from some individual coaching from an experienced PL striker and would love to see Terry arrange for Drogba to come in for a month and spend time with him and Davis. 

20 hours ago, A'Villan said:

I've made pretty clear in the Luiz and Heaton thread that our efforts that are worthy of a victory have been eclipsed by our errors that led to defeats.

You've misconstrued my post a little bit, when I said "two howlers have cost us, and otherwise we'd more than likely be celebrating".. the 'otherwise' is key.

'Othewise' means in the event they did not occur. They did, and we have 0 points from our first two games, the worst possible outcome in regards to points.

We've made some poor decisions that did indeed end up as unforced errors. That HAS to improve. I guess our opinions differ in that I believe they will, you perhaps not?

You tell me on that one, I don't want to assume your stance on this squad in regards to capability. I actually think we're pretty sh*t hot for a team freshly promoted.

You make a case that must be considered in regards to possession, and I would guess that the truth be in between that and the suggestion we outplayed them.

I actually disagree with that. Going down two nil so early against Bournemouth completely changed the dynamic of the game: they had a lead to protect and were happy to allow us possession and chase the game whilst they mainly looked to attack on the counter. Point being, is that I'm not convinced that we would have generated the same possession and chance creation statistics if it had been nil nil for a longer duration: perversely, it was actually the making of those mistakes that allowed us to play well for the rest of the game.

Put more simply, us playing well for the remainder effectively flattered to deceive as it was only because Bournemouth were comfortable with us having the onus. I appreciate that is a pessimistic view, though, and others might see it differently. 

On your latter point, I am indeed dubious that we will struggle to stop the mistakes, mainly because of an inability - or, I suspect more likely, a tactical reluctance from Smith - to play the game at tempo. Maybe that will come as we adapt to the League, but if we continue to pass the ball a) so slowly; and b) so predictably square, then we are very easy to read and therefore vulnerable to losing the ball from a high press. This isn't a question of squad capability, as you reference, but more the tactical direction from Smith. This is not a League for slow motion football and we need more movement, more zip and to utilise angles better. 

More broadly, I just cannot see us getting the goals we need. The way we play inherently places pressure on goals from midfield, yet non of our midfielders are prolific goal scorers. Yes, they do score goals, but historically not at the rate that would be needed for this system to work. I would be doing as much coaching of Davis as is humanly possible - especially around his finishing - so that we at least have an alternative system to play. If Wes does not come good this month, then Davis needs to be ready to come in and hit ground running. 

15 hours ago, villalad21 said:

The losses had nothing to do with the fullbacks... How many times do I need to address this?

We lost to spurs because jack fooled around in our own half. We lost against Bournemouth because Heaton and Luiz messed up.

I'd argue that whilst the FBs were not at fault for the goals conceded, if we'd have more offensively progressive FBs - which Targett and Guilbert undoubtedly are - then we might have scored more goals and beaten Bournemouth. 

If you play like we do, with one striker and a narrow outside right and left (El Ghazi and Trez), it is critical that FBs get forward. 

So, I actually think we would have stood a better chance of winning if we'd have played more attack-minded FBs. 

4 hours ago, A'Villan said:

When it's looking like we might be relegated?

We had the lionshare of possession and notably more attempts than Bournemouth.

Two howlers have cost us, and we'd otherwise more than likely be celebrating.

I’m not buying into this ‘we only made two mistakes and it cost is’ excuse. People almost implying that if you concede from a mistake, then it somehow doesn’t count. They do, and the fact that unforced errors are costing us games is deeply concerning.

Spurs was a free punt game and was the one to make mistakes in, not Bournemouth at Home. 

Plus, we probably had the lion share of possession because Bournemouth were happy to sit on their 2 goal cushion. What is concerning is that, even with that possession, we only scored once.

People seem calm but I am not impressed with what I am seeing, on balance 

46 minutes ago, PompeyVillan said:

It was clear how genuinely gutted the players were when they walked off at full time. The fans clapped them off and rightly so. 

That seems important to me. Losing should be devastating, and I think it will spur us on for the game against Everton.The attitude of this group seems good, it's early days of course and if we lose against Everton you might expect a few heads to drop. 

I think Smith will have a long hard thing about a few things over the next week: 

*How do we cut out the mistakes. 

*Full back selection

* How to get more from El Ghazi, Trezeguet and Wesley. 

Ultimately, I think we were a bit unlucky. As much as the current thinking is "If you make a mistake you will get punished in the Premier League", the second goal was deflected, and Bournemouth barely worried us apart from their two goals. Their midfielder Billing could have been sent off too. We didn't get the rub of the green against Spurs, but we can't have too many complaints about that result. 

Everton game will be have a different dynamic, providing we don't go two nil down so early on. Bournemouth gave up playing after 10 minutes and wasted time and dived all over the place for the remaining 80. Honestly, I thought their performance was embarrassing, if I were a fan of Bournemouth I'd be delighted with the result but dissapointed in the manner of the victory.  Eddie Howe isn't quite the purist he is made out to be. 

We're very much a 'work in progress 'and we're learning a lot as we go on. But we need to learn quickly and hope we won't be punished every time we make a mistake. 

It's going to be a rocky season. We need to stay with the team and pack out VP each game and support this lot all the way. 

Would also add that he needs to find a way of getting us to play at a PL tempo. This slow motion football won’t get us anywhere 

I also think we need to bring in a dedicated Striker coach. Wesley is looking like a dud that is in desperate need of coaching and Davis needs to learn how to finish. 

Agreed that he was tactically incompetent today. I’ve never been a fan of slow motion, side to side Smith-ball, but really hope he gets it together and improves. 

Didn’t mind being outclassed, but no excuse for our fitness levels being so low. 

Have been saying for years that we need proper ore-seasons that build fitness, intensity and tempo. 

He is one I wouldn’t mind paying up for. Fantastic player, incredible fitness levels and very versatile. Right age as well. 

12 minutes ago, lexicon said:

Yup. Very important summer ahead and the players we go for need to be of the right personality and attitude to work well in the team. Smith's approach is seemingly pretty specific and while that is definitely a strength, with the squad we've got not being right for it, it's a bit hard going at the moment. 

In any case, I'm prepared to give him time. 

That level of wholesale recruitment in one summer is difficult and January showed we aren’t the best at it. I know Summer market is better, but more likely it takes ~3 windows to get the optimised squad together. Which is why Smith needs to start getting more out of certain current players.  

How can he be injured when he isn’t even playing? Starting to think he is a real crock. 

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

He seems to be averaging around 75% of his passes going forward as opposed to backwards. But sure, just "headlines" I assume.

Please post a link to that statistic? I can almost guarantee you've misconstrued it. 

10 hours ago, Troglodyte said:

Bluntly, we have an incredible number of thick fans.

We all get frustrated and sometimes vent when things aren't going right - most fans make irrational or illogical comments and that's to be expected. And no-one wants to see a lack of effort or commitment. But as others have said, it's mind boggling how many people in the stands seem to think that the missing piece in our tactical jigsaw is to just "get it **** forward" at every conceivable opportunity, and always as early as possible. Some yelling it seem to be genuinely doing so in some kind of apoplectic rage. It's beyond pathetic.

What would you have them do? Stand up and and elegantly quote chapter and verse on the many virtues of playing on the front foot? Calls to pass the ball forward are not random or spontaneous; when you have seen a player make a forward run for the 20th time only for Hourihane or Whelan to turn their back and pass it backwards to a centre half it is enough to try anyone's patience. 

Its got to the point where he is a liability. Only in kids football have I seen a player so easily out-muscled and his free kick ability nowhere near compensates for his physical weaknesses. I genuinely think if you pulled a fan out of the crowd hey could do what Hourihane does  - take a touch and then pass it back to a centre half or full abck. 

The bigger concern I have is that I don't think we have the right infrastructure at the club to bring in the type of players Smith needs. It is a meticulous and arduous process that required an entire division at Brentford and took years to refine.

We also have a number of factors going against us when trying to replicate that strategy: i) we will always have to pay a huge premium because of our perceived resources, stature and size; ii) players at that stage are psychologically vulnerable and likely can't hack playing in front of an even half full VP; and iii) if we do it gradually, rather than wholesale this summer, the main benefit of younger players - ambition, fitness, pace, excitement - will be completely diluted by the old guard poisoning them (Hourihane and Whelan content to just play keep ball in our own half, for example). The best example of the latter is what Whelan did to Ramsey on Saturday - forced him to play safe by giving him the ball into feet or behind him even though the lad had made some great runs. 

As such, a bigger part of the task here is not just recruitment of younger and fitter players, but the phase out of older players. The latter have no sale value as no one will take on their exuberant contracts, so that will be a key test for this regime (who I was really unimpressed with in January). The best option would be to plead with Hourihane and Whelan to stop what they're doing and at least try to run/move/play on the front foot  (Whelan showed he can actually play a ball forward against Sheff Utd), but looks like Smith has exhausted all efforts here if our recent complete reversion to Bruce ball is anything to go by. 

I've been one of Smith's biggest critics on here, but if we accept it is just too difficult a task to inspire the likes of Hourihane and Whelan to run, then the fan pressure needs to shift to the non-playing staff and their ability to recruit. People on here will disagree, but I don't think the team the owners have put in place caught enough criticism for their performance in January, where they chose to capitulate rather than give promotion a genuine shot. Asking Smith to do it all is too much; I'm prepared to let him focus on the on-pitch issues, but we need to get at the recruitment team if they have a slow start in the summer.

On 17/02/2019 at 12:27, TRO said:

anyone can run and hide and look like they are busy, shadowing and non committal play, minimum contact etc...it can fool the eye of some.

Its all about effective running and prudent positioning and reading situations, making things work for you....Paul McGrath with his dodgy Knees.

but you know that, too.

I like the possession ones too....where you can play the ball around at the back and hurt no one and just run the stats up.

Watching a game....beats all the stats for me....but hey, I am just an old Dinosaur.

Exactly. The stats are just headlines, read into the detail and he is not a very effective player in the slightest. Tidy and competent, most of the time, but only runs backwards and passes the ball backwards. Just watch his body shape next time he receives the ball.

He should be one of the 'punters' they bring on in the NFL to take the kicks. 

Really hope Smith plays him for every minute for the rest of the season. It was so refreshing seeing a player have the fitness and intelligence to make forward runs from midfield.  

13 minutes ago, New_Hope said:

What incompetence?? You know f$#k all of what we tried and what we succeeded on in the Jan transfer window....like the rest of us!

I know it wobbles your bubble, but believe it or not, criticism of this regime is perfectly legitimate. You don't know what I may or could know so don't pretend to. 

The undeniable sign of incompetency is not signing a LB - on loan or otherwise - despite it being an emergency situation since August. That is 6 months to source and transact yet it yielded no results. Secondly, signing an injured player in Carroll. That was a new low even for us.