Cjay

30 minutes ago, A'Villan said:

You don't come across as though you are knocking him, just providing a different perspective on what prospective buyers might want to pay.

I think you have to understand my bias here. 20 million seemed like a lot for Ashley Young? He's still starting for them, and I would have preferred they kept their money.

Same goes for the others mentioned. These players are so valuable to a club like ours. As I said previously, I think Jack will surpass the feats of the players I mentioned.

You're right though, Jack is unproven at Premier League level. And that's the same reason Liverpool got Coutinho for 8.5 million. Jack won't command the fee we want.

Like Coutinho though watch Jack's market value absolutely sky rocket once he comes of age.

Cant stand Ashley Young, probably my bias towards him shining through, but i cant stand him. 

I do understand the bias, he is a shining light, a local lad etc. 

Even Coutinho was a Brazilian international when Liverpool got him.

Lets hope you are right, for the good of the national team atleast. 

9 minutes ago, carewjust4u said:

Please don't take my comment as aggressive mate, i completely agree with your point on English players. My biggest fear relating to this is foreign clubs being priced out of affording our national youth, as they seem to be the only ones that want to give them actual gametime....but i guess that's a conversation for another time.

No no i didn't mate lol its all good. 

You've got a point there as well, if we keep knocking up the prices the only teams who will consider paying it are English teams, eventually will run out of English teams who can afford it, then what happens. 

4 minutes ago, choffer said:

The thing is, very few clubs buy a player based on game stats. Most will have a player watched countless times and see the influence he has on matches, his approach, is progression, his attitude and aptitude. Stats are way down the line when it comes to valuing a player. 

Yeah i understand that, i can only look as an average fan who cant watch all his games. 

Im sure there is much more to his game then goals and assists. 

Will say he gets kicked a hell of a lot. 

12 minutes ago, carewjust4u said:

Just another stat to consider, he averages an average of 2 key passes a game which is the 8th highest in the Championship.

He also averages 3 successful dribbles a game which is the 4th best in the championship.

He also averages 3.4 fouls a game, which is the highest in the championship.

As you said you need to look at the all round game, and consider he is only 22, before being able to give an accurate opinion on the transfer-value valuation.

https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/7/Seasons/6848/Stages/16231/PlayerStatistics/England-Championship-2017-2018

Yeah your right, i didnt go well in depth looking into stats i admit, just did a quick one on goals and assists. 

My main point was English player valuations compared to similar players from abroad, thats all.

21 minutes ago, vreitti said:

Stats isn't everything. Perhaps try watching the actual performances (and games). If you don't see the difference, I'd suggest a visit to the optometrist.

Alright mate, not going to argue with you, didnt mean to start an argument 

3 hours ago, lapal_fan said:

Don't forget, we judge the value of Grealish in a comparison to our other players sold in the past.

We've had players like Hendrie, Vassell, Luke Moore, Gabby, Milner, Ashley Young, Stuart Downing etc etc - Grealish is better than all of them (imo).  He'll win titles and European Cups if he chooses the right move - as much as that pains me to say. 

He's an absolutely brilliant player, and has been the star of our team for 18 months now, admittedly in the Championship.  You put him in a good side, he'd be phenomenal. 

As I said, all my opinion, but I believe he's the best player we've had in years.  He's so naturally gifted.  He can pass, dribble, he's learning how and when to shoot with maximum effect, he has game intelligence, he can now run with the ball effectively (he used to stifle our play a little by keeping it too long) - he's becoming a very effective number 10.

I've been saying for a while now that his style is like Totti.  Maybe he doesn't quite have that vision yet, but he's 22 and he's only going to get better. 

I just hope his career doesn't go the way of some our other young players leaving like Benteke (who should be playing CL now, and would be if he hadn't signed for Liverpool) and wastes his potential. 

After this season, it looks like he'll have to further his career elsewhere - but he's going to be absolutely brilliant.  One season in the Prem and he'll get a call up and he'll soon be running the England show. 

I understand your point.

He is your local lad, us fans always feel very strongly when we get talented lads, especially local ones coming through so i do see where your all coming from. 

Just as an outsider, as a football fan, not a Leeds fan, i look at Jack Grealish fairly, i look at his stats  and i think to myself, why would i spend 20, 30, 40mil on him?

You guys see his progression, you see his all round game week in week out, i dont. 

All i can look at is what all fans look at when looking at players, how have they done, im quite fair, if we sign a striker i take minutes played into account and such, i do maths. 

So overall he has played 44 games in the Championship ( i rounded it down), during that time he has scored 8 goals and he has 8 assists. 

So thats basically a full season, 8 goals 8 assists, thats not to bad, but its nothing marvelous.

Samu Saiz- 29 games, 5 goals 7 assists. . . . James Maddison- 40 games 14 goals, 8 assists . . . Diogo Jota - 40 games, 17 goals, 5 assists . . Gianni Alioski- 35 games, 7 goals, 5 assists . . Pablo Hernandez- 33 games, 7 goals 8 assists etc etc. 

I realise with Grealish you sell potential to, but the stats dont back up the price is all im saying. 

I see all your points of view, i really do, we have had lots of local lads come through and you become very protective of them, just as a football fan i dont see where the 20-40mil value comes from, thats all. 

14 hours ago, A'Villan said:

We got 20 million for Ashley Young, and that was back then.

Delph is playing for a title winning side.

Benteke went for 30 million.

Grealish is only 22 and he could surpass them all in skill.

I rate him higher than most, I really think he could be David Silva level if he keeps working hard.

I can promise you, the potential is huge for this kid, and I have to wonder how often you have seen him play?

Coutinho was raw playing at Inter at the age Jack is now, he had some obvious skill and talent but didn't impose himself on games like he does now.

He went to Liverpool for 8.5million but look at what he's worth a few years later, 100 million.

40million for Jack isn't ridiculous, I wouldn't want that money in exchange. Even though we will never see anything near it until he has proven his worth to the world.

I haven't seen him play as much as you guys clearly, but you've been on tele a fair few times since he appeared so i have seen him quite often.#

 

I see what your saying, but you cant really compare Grealish to any of those players, Benteke, Delph etc. 

£20mil for Young seemed a lot and was a few years ago but he was a proven Premier League player then, he'd been doing a good job for you for 3 or 4 years by then in the Prem. Benteke i think had a 1 in 2 Premier League strike rate for you when he left, and Delph the same was a regular in the Prem and all 3 were full internationals by the time they left. 

What i said was more about the state of English player valuations, i think its ridiculous, was just using Jack Grealish as an example. 

On a simple level, why would a Liverpool or whatever spend £40mil on Jack Grealish when they can maybe get Jota from Wolves for similar, or Justin Kluivert for £30mil? 

With the greatest of respect those are two players younger by a few years, and more proven. 

As i say, not knocking Grealish, may seem like i am but i really do rate him, its more my dismay with the obscene in my eyes valuations English players are getting. 

37 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

You don't sell your best players for what other people think they're worth.  You over value you them to put people off.  It's like saying, Kane is not worth more than £60m, how dare Spurs not accept a bid of that amount for him.

Obviously with latest developments we won't get to keep him anymore and people know how desperate we are for the money.

See your point, you're right, just found £40mil eye watering, but as you say, over value. 

1 minute ago, paul1984 said:

Certainly more than the lad from Norwich.

2 minutes ago, paul1984 said:

Certainly more than the lad from Norwich.

All about opinions mate fair enough.

3 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Less proven?

He has performed in the premier league and ran the show in an fa cup semi final. 

 

I didnt mean to upset anyone lol.

But that was 3 years ago and 1 game. 

As i said, rate him but not at £40mil imo. 

6 minutes ago, TRO said:

Hogan &  McCormack for c 12mill a piece....are the ones that stick in my craw.....However, one does have a go.

24 mill we could do will right now.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing i suppose, over priced but had they done what was expected would have seemed a bargain. 

Where even is McCormack anyway now? He must be on a fair wage to.

15 minutes ago, Zatman said:

less proven than James Maddison? 3 England under 21 caps and a few good games at Championship level or Grealish who ran an FA Cup semi final

14 goals 8 assists last season for a pretty poor Norwich side, "a few good games" bit of a disservice.

I like Grealish, said after we played you "i wish we had Grealish to bring on to replace Pablo" after Pablo went off. 

Id prefer Grealish to Saiz, just think the valuation was ridiculous, not just Grealish, in general English player valuations are mad imo. 

6 minutes ago, sexbelowsound said:

Cool story bro. Cheers for the opinion.

Not having a pop, just saying 

Read on twitter that before all this kicked off Villa valued Grealish at £40mil?

Living in cloud cuckoo land, 10-15m tops imo, potential is there but less proven then the lad at Norwich who they want £20mil for.

38 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

i read about it a long time a go when looking at chinese construction economics as part of my dissertation

from memory they're stockpiling money, cash, gold the lot, it undermines other economies  (not just cash, they do it with a lot of commodities likes minerals and metals etc) they have a foreign currency stockpile of over $3trillion, they use it to stabilise their own currency, its playing with global economics

they dont therefore want all their billionaires investing cash abroad, the rules i think are that you can only invest chinese money in a foreign company that provides some revenue back to china, villa dont, wolves somehow might which is why he seems to be able to spend, they might be using some sort of loop hole where it might not be chinese money thats being spent

Oh i see thanks for that.

I mean i suppose the promotion will have made them money so provides cash.

Fosun can then go back to the Chinese government and say "look how much we got for this making X profit". 

i dont know if they could knock back some of that profit in tax to China ? 

7 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

Does anyone have any links to websites explains the ins and outs of these new regulations?

I’ve seen it mentioned a lot but when I’ve looked, I just find other random articles about China limiting ATM withdrawals or giving people a 50,000 limit to exchange out of the country. That can’t be it.

I have a feeling if you google the Atletico Madrid and Wanda selling there stake a bit ago there may be a possible explanation there. 

Remember reading it, something about trying to cut down on overseas debt or something.

If its troubling a group like Wanda who i think im right in saying make Fosun look a bit strapped for cash, can understand why your owner may be struggling. 

9 minutes ago, hippo said:

Supposedly new chinese law halts investment outside of china - if true we are fecked - if not true we are probably still fecked ! 

Remember reading something about China tightening laws on outbound Chinese investment, just assumed it was words and meant very little 

So many conflicting reports.

Ranging from the minor annoyance to the absolutely terrifying for you i imagine 

So your in trouble potentially with FFP to the tune of needing to find about £60mil.

Theres an unpaid tax bill of something like £5mil.

What i dont get is for a man reportedly near enough a Billionaire a few million to save himself all this hassle is peanuts. Why has your owner not just paid the tax bill? 

I get the gambling on Promotion (we gambled once, someone should have told him how that ended up) , but cant he fund Villa now, does he not want to? 

32 minutes ago, Xela said:

Looking at his record, he seems vastly overrated?

Best defend our (possible) future coach 

Europa League runner up with Bilbao, considering how they operate thats pretty decent.

Got Chile who hadnt qualified for a World Cup for some time to a World Cup, 50% win record at Marseille isnt to bad considering they were selling off key players, same at Lille, they fell out over recruitment, and eventually the same at Bilbao. 

His record is decent for the standing of clubs he has managed, 

Runner up in the Copa America with Argentina, not bad, hadnt been in the final for 11 years before then, won the Olympics with them to, first time a South American team had done that since like the 1920s. 

Think from reading you have to balance out what he has done with where he has been and the circumstances, all the clubs he has managed have sold off key players against his wishes. He is very well regarded in the game, was a candidate for the Arsenal job and was one of the reasons Arsenal appointed Unai Emery, one of many managers who regard Marcelo Bielsa as a mentor. 

His personality is the reason he never gets the top club jobs imo, to unpredictable.

But the amount of people who speak very highly of him and copy his ideas is very exciting for me as a Leeds fan.

He is the sort of manager who probably as a coach  is top class, certainly thats the impression all the experts and people inside football give, a man good enough to coach the very best but his own worst enemy. 

Good enough for Mauricio Pochettino, Pep Guardiola, Unai Emery, Diego Simeone etc, then he is worth a go, besides imagine his contacts

And now i fully expect tomorrow to wake up to the news . . . . . .Welcome Steve Bruce. 

3 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Just seen that, so what would the general consensus amongst your fans be?

Probably nonsense.

Some wouldn't mind. Look at his record of promotions and the fact it means hecky who is unbelievably unpopular would be gone.

But largely negative id expect, old fashioned English manager, ex Manchester player etc.

Cant see it.

Daily Star thinks we (Leeds) are looking at having Steve Bruce as manager, pretty terrifying 

Then again cant be worse then WhatTheHeck.

You will win

We couldn't beat Sunderland at Elland Road.

As a Leeds fan i was utterly horrified by his tweet just after the wolves game.

It came across so badly to everyone, came across as bitter and angry. At least now he has explained his point of view, and he has made a good point. He was advised to sell his shares before buying us as it was the legal thing to do (or so he understood it). So i imagine what has happened at Wolves has upset him, because Radz does have the connections to do similar. 

Perfectly within his rights to ask the EFl questions imo.

If Wolves have done nothing wrong as a Leeds fan i hope he uses his extensive connections to take us up 

3 hours ago, Grasshopper said:

Respect

Fortune favours the brave/you make your own luck.......etc.

But still not a lucky spin.

Taylor went fully committed into 2 challenges (1 against your Beast of a defender) when the ball remained in your half (normally such a defensive challenge like that would end up as a clearance) there was a 2 v 1 situation where JG took the ball down and directly forward. Lansbury took it on and got a good shot off -> goal.

No luck about that 2 50/50 challenges 1 2v1 & a shot that beat the GK. Endevour and skill resulting in a worthy goal

It was indeed 2 full blooded challenges,  but the 2nd one could have gone anywhere, the spin was fortunate, taking nothing away from the strike, but where the ball ended up originally was lucky.

1 good chance that despite outnumbering us 3/2 the cross was „so good“ it evaded everyone or were the attackers not quick/alert/far enough forward?

Had Cooper been onside he would have been no-where near getting a head to the cross

The offside was clear, but in the 1st half Cooper had a similar headed chance which he caught full on,  more of a flick similar to Pontus and thats a good chance. There was a lovely lay off from Ekuban that put Saiz through, had he took it left footed which he is capable of having scored a few left footed goals then thats a chance, you did well to cover but only down to him cutting back inside. The cross goal was unfortunate it ended up going through all there legs. Of the sides you had Adomah's chance down to Ayling missing the ball, and the goal. That was it.

I would have taken a point before the game. However, seeing how the game panned out, we should have won, but we have a manager who stiffles us for too long a periods of games.

Disagree on that, this is another game we failed to win down to us not taking our chances and because of Bruces tactics tbf. Had you had a manager who is more expansive then i feel you would have lost, Bruces tactics stifled Alioski and Saiz, thats to his credit. Had he not done that then given how we created the better opportunities when you were less brave, we would have created more if you were more brave. 

Accept a draw, but feel we should have won, you were as expected, solid, organised and hard to break down, but offensively limited.