Cjay

I don't know if this is fully accurate, haven't checked.

But from memory it probably is quite accurate.

This is apparently a list of teams Gareth Southgate has beaten as England manager in competitive fixtures.

Has any England manager ever had as favourable a set of fixtures?

World Cup qualifiers

Malta
Scotland
Lithuania
Malta
Slovakia
Slovenia
Lithuania

World Cup groups
Tunisia
Panama
Colombia
Sweden.

Euro qualifiers
Czech Republic
Macedonia
Bulgaria
Kosovo
Montenegro
Kosovo

World Cup Qualifiers
San Marino
Albania
Poland

Euros
Croatia
Czech Republic
Germany
Ukraine
Denmark

World Cup qualifiers
Hungary
Andora
Andora
Albania
San Marino.

5 hours ago, Mjvilla said:

I cant find anything online to confirm this, just a couple of dodgy sites reporting it as rumours. 

So, apart from Inter Milan (I can only find confirmation of him turning it down once over 10 years ago), and rumours (unconfirmed) 6 months later where moratti, who was inters president during both these times, said he was one name amongst many others considered. 

Barcelona, he had backers I've no doubt. But he wasn't selected and never considered where it matters. Why?

I think you'd be absolutely daft not to think that his managerial career has been held back because of the way he is. It's not a myth when you consider what he's achieved.

He has won hardly anything really. There's a reason for that. He's never managed right at the top. There's a reason for that.

Is he good enough? You'd probably think he is when you read everything about him. Does he have the right attitude and personality, then no. I think that's quite clear and is what held him back. 

To not consider this is blind faith, in my opinion.

Oh i fully agree, i am sure the way he is has held him back in his career in the sense that elite clubs dont want that sort of personality.

He is a very different personality to what you usually get in football, very strong minded and you could even say inflexible in a way in that its his way or no way.

That would never fly at a club like Barcelona or Inter or Real Madrid, clubs where a manager is seen as just a part of a larger cog not the be all and end all.

But i was just making the point that the fact he hasnt managed a huge club isnt because he hasnt had opportunities or wouldn't have been wanted.

I know he is seen as a bit odd and opposition fans think he gets far to much credit for as you say minimal trophies, but personally i think its admirable how he is speaking as a football fan. 

If people were told  that they could likely get a job on far more money at a far more prestigious company with far more opportunity for accolades and fame and all they have to do is just be more flexible, do as they were told by their boss and just be a good company man then i think almost everyone would do just that?

Practically every football manager in the world would do just that for a shot at the elite jobs wouldn't you agree? 

Bielsa wont and i find that admirable in a way, he is who he is and no amount of money or job prestige will change that.

The Barcelona and Real Madrid stories were on seperate journalist podcasts years ago, listened to it when we appointed MB. I had a google i cant find either of them unfortunately, the best i can find is the quote from the coach about Madrid and the podcast confirmed that the person in question was Jorge Valdano which makes perfect sense given his relationship with Bielsa.

"We had just announced our departure from Argentina and a few days later Camacho left Real Madrid," said Luis Maria Bonini. Marcelo receives a call from an important person at Real Madrid, who wanted him to take the reins of the team. He replied: "I have just left Argentina, do you think I can lead Real Madrid?" It was hard to say no to Real, only Bielsa can do it. But we were in mourning. We had just managed the Argentina team, it was our dream. It was hard. Marcelo didn't want people to think he was leaving the squad to join Real Madrid. " Marcelo Bielsa stopped coaching for three years before returning to Chile in 2007.

2 hours ago, Zatman said:

He is nearly 66 years old with a bad reputation within the boardroom. No top team is touching Bielsa like they havent done for his entire mythical career. The only big clubs he has had were in the doldrums when he signed for them like Marseille and Lazio(when he resigned after 2 days) who luckily got a much better manager than Bielsa in charge

Sorry but this is a myth that seems to have become a fact.

He has turned down the Inter Milan job more than once, quotes from the President of Inter Milan confirm this.

He also had major support for the Barcelona job when Pep left from Guardiola himself, Lionel Messi and Johan Cruyff. Not to say he turned it down or was ever offered it but to say he couldn't have had it would be wrong imo. 

And finally he turned down the Real Madrid job when offered it in 2004 by Jorge Valdano, his close friend and at the time Real Madrid Sporting Director.

He probably is to difficult a personality for jobs like Madrid and Barcelona but to say no top team would touch him isnt true. 

He is extremely picky and simply wouldn't get the control he would want at teams like that.

Goal scoring wise may not be to impressive  (although with minutes played taken into account his La Liga record as a striker is 1 in 3).

But MB demands far more from a striker than just goals. In that respect according to those who know more than i say Rodrigo has the things MB will want.

It seems a lot for a 29 year old but he is currently the Spanish national teams main striker at the end of the day.

His record last season isnt bad imo.

Directly involved in 17 goals in just under 28 games worth of minutes. Goal or an assist every 146 minutes,  2 goals and 2 assists  in the Champions League (Ajax, Chelsea and Lille) only played 529 minutes.

I'd rather this then spend £20mil on Ollie Watkins which is apparently something we may have done.

2 hours ago, Shropshire Lad said:

I think a “burnout” can be mental as much as physical.

You can’t say “oh the dirty Leeds thing was before I was born” but then use incidents that involved John Terry when he was Chelsea to slur Villa. It’s inconsistent.

You’re letting yourself down here.

That was probably uncalled for tbf (my comment), dont like John Terry never have tbh.

Was talking to a Newcastle fan the other day who i met when i lived up there, got on to the subject of parachute payments.

What do you guys think of them? He is a fan i am not i think they reward failure and created a distortion in the transfer market between those who have and haven't.

You had them and have seen the good and the bad side i suppose so just curious.

9 minutes ago, tinker said:

We was nearly **** and tbh I think most teams do live a hand to mouth existence and the hand is normally a rich or crooked one.

Good luck next season hope you can keep it all together, Leeds belong in the top division. But you have to admit the desire to win at all costs was a major factor in you not going up , the pressure on your players was immense, we could see when we played you and it was evident in the Derby game . 

Agree i think most teams do EFL teams especially, some push it to the brink as you did and Derby seemingly.

You'r right the pressure on the players is immense and imo they couldn't cope unfortunately, nothing to do with burnout just mental weakness.

Doubt I'll watch the playoff final but if you go up i will be interested seeing as im localish

10 minutes ago, av1 said:

Really?

So missing your striker for the first leg (because he is a cheat) and getting a man sent off in the 2nd had no bearing on the fact you lost?

 

If i was you I'd be more worried about finding another £3.7 to keep Bielsa. Was it 14th you finished last season?

 

We are miles clear of FFP if thats why you mention the wages, all indicators suggest between £20-30mil.

We won without Bamford first leg, missed chances to put the tie to bed but thats been a problem all season Bamford or not. A small part maybe regarding Berardi but we were mentally gone by this point anyways.

I am worried about Bielsa but id rather be us then you if you dont go up.

3 of your key players all loans will go, Grealish and  McGinn may go load of contracts up arent they.

You squad would need a total overhaul.

16 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said:

depends who it's against

Given the things we know about JT and morals you would have to go some to be able to

Do the KKK play football?

16 minutes ago, Shropshire Lad said:

 

@Cjay, if we do lose to Derby, would that mean the original statement about the Leeds burnout was incorrect?

Honestly i dont think we "burnt out".

I think we had to many injuries, not enough individual quality and to many mentally weak players.

I didnt expect playoffs as i said before.

35 minutes ago, Mantis said:

What exactly are you basing this on?

Be honest,  if you dont go up are you not really worried about your ffp situation? 

I know what your owners have said but as we both know owners aren't always the most honest of people.

You were absolutely screwed before they arrived according to your accounts weren't you? How can that just disappear.

33 minutes ago, av1 said:

Is it £3.7m you're paying Bielsa?

You are universally known as dirty Leeds, one of the reasons you lost the 2nd leg.

After his 2 game ban for cheating remind me how long into his comeback game it took Bamford to get booked for cheating. Was it 30mins?

Whats Bielsa's wages got to do with it? 

"Dirty Leeds" i wasnt even born when that became a thing. We lost the 2nd leg because we bottled it (nothing to do with dirty).

Bamford is soft as shite and has a reputation now same as Ollie Watkins at Brentford who Dean Smith never ever admitted was a cheating sod.

21 minutes ago, av1 said:

As opposed to the 2 cheating barstewarding sides that got knocked out. 

Very nearly bankrupted yourselves to get promoted.

Got a billionaire owner to rescue you.

Seem to have gone all or nothing again.

You dont go up then you are totally screwed by the looks of it hence lucky barstewards.

Any club that has John Terry can't take the moral high ground

And Dean Smith while i think he is a good manager has very selective views on fair play . . . . 

19 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Hey Cjay, remember when everyone said you’d look great all year then fall short because of burnout and injuries....................

In the unlikely imo event Derby beat you i shall take great pleasure in coming back to this

I think you'll beat Derby.

Still very bitter two lucky barstewarding teams.

The media narrative the Lampard beat us is nonsense.

They played better in the 2nd half, Lampard got them to push forward more but until Cooper and Casilla had a total meltdown they were going nowhere.

Cooper then gave them a pen and Berardi got sent off, we lost our heads (same as vs Wigan).  Derby arent a bad side but by quite a way the weakest in the playoffs imo (which is what annoys me most)

But yes I'd be very surprised if you dont beat Derby as against our injury ravaged side we still had to hand it to them they couldn't take it.

19 hours ago, Villan4Life said:

Our resident Leeds fan on here ...has had his say on  link below

 

http://www.motforum.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37566

Tiny bit of a meltdown

We did fail in to many big games, threw away autos.

But we tend to perform against the better teams which is what i cling on to.

In very poor form recently but ended your winning run and comfortably beat Derby, yet lost to Ipswich in between

I'm hopeful, its poetic that similar to the majority of the season we have big injury problems.

46 minutes ago, Pelle said:

Unless I'm very much misstaken barcelona didn't win the European Cup/CL untill 1994. They were in the final 1986 after they cheated IFK Gothenburg out in the semi but they lost on penalties against Steaua Bukarest/Ducadam.

Beat Sampdoria in 1992 mate to win i think the European Cup/CL for the first time.

Heck of a team they had actually, Pep, Laudrup, Stoichkov, Koeman, Zubizarreta, Cruyff was manager.

1 hour ago, Xela said:

Interesting view but pretty much everyone who had seen him play (fans, pundits, ex-players) chose Maradona as one of the two greatest players of all time along with Pele and a level above other great players like Cruyff, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho etc

You would have Messi in that list with Pele and Maradona now for sure.

 

True i mean opinions change as the years go by and the people who remember players pass on.

People like John Charles, Di Stefano, Puskas etc they probably had more people  supporting them 30 years ago and in 20 years Maradona will probably be the one then in 50 years it'll probably be Messi.

Messi is the best player I've ever seen to the point i find it hard to believe anyone was on his level (that's probably better).

8 minutes ago, sne said:

Think this sums it up.

Doubt there is anyone who followed Maradona who doesn't have him among the best ever.

Don't see the need to diminish the talent and career of Maradona to lift Messi up.

Not diminishing just think he didnt play at the top level consistently enough or long enough.

Ronaldinho helped Barcelona win their first Champions league for 14 years and Brazil win the World Cup and Barcelona win there first league title for 6 years.

For 4 or 5 years he was awesome but like Maradona he was just about done by the time he was 30 and is never really in the conversation when The Greatest Ever comes up.

Ronaldinho is how i see Maradona (maybe wrongly) but thats how i see him, awesome for a spell but it was all to brief.

Never saw Maradona play.

Dont think the World Cup should be used as a reason, had he not cheated then maybe Argentina dont win, then what?

Messi imo is better simply because he has been one of if not the best player in the world for over a decade.

Maradona was finished by the time he was 30 and really only shone at Napoli

People say its easy for Messi at Barcelona, but Maradona couldn't inspire Barcelona to the title, the season after he left they won it as well as the European Cup so it cant have been a bad side.

Personally don't get the hype with Maradona, he shone very bright very briefly.

Same as Ronaldinho, Kaka, Figo etc.

The greats imo have to be consistent, Cruyff, Pele, Messi, Ronaldo and Cristiano Ronaldo.

At best Maradona had 5-6 years at Napoli at the top of his game.

The players above were right up there for a decade or more, that imo is the difference.

Maradona, George Best players like that maybe had every bit of talent as Cruyff, Messi etc but they didnt have the longevity.

Messi at 19 was a better player then Maradona at the same age Messi is now.

Edit- Got dates wrong Barcelona won it years after Maradona left.

4 hours ago, bobzy said:

Would you rather have been on the receiving end of Hourihane’s “punch” on Klich or Cooper’s “tackle” on Grealish?

Come back to me when you’ve thought about it and explain how “excessive force” works in both situations.

Either, means im a professional footballer. 

I dont need time to think, there was absolutely no reason for Hourihane to touch Klich was there? So any force would be excessive.

No point going over this anymore tbh. 

4 hours ago, 7392craig said:

There’s no reason for any opposition fans to hate him other than jealousy. He’s comfortably the most talented player in the league. People point out his goals and assists against him but what about his key pass stat? I think he’s the highest in the league even with all the games he’s missed. If there was a stat for assist of an assist he’d be walking it and would get much more praise.

Hernandez mate by quite a distance, only player with over 100 chances created in the league and most per game by some way, think Norwood is 2nd with about 95, Hernandez is on 115 i think, Grealish is miles down overall (but obviously has had injuries tbf), quite high per game i think, top 10, but last stat i saw the top 5 per game were Hernandez, Buendia, Benrahma, Norwood and someone random, cant remember who, Ben Marshall maybe. 

5 minutes ago, Shropshire Lad said:

The force is relevant, in the rule you yourself quoted it says “excessive force”.

Now I’m not saying whether what Hourihane did was excessive or not, but how hard it was does appear to matter.

You're right my mistake.

But i would have thought "excessive force" in that situation was any force at all, didnt need to touch him.

Anyway little point debating it tbf now, just feels like once again to us another seemingly clear (to us) situation of violent conduct has gone against us.