The Hawk

37 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

BS he was. No one but Luiz is at fault for him having touch of a rapist then dawdling back to recover. Also classic Villa forum post that players get better the longer out of team. Seen it for years

I thought this as well until I saw deans quote “Ezri Konsa has had a complete brain fade”, so I presume there were strict instructions not to play the pass in that area unless the player has time to clearly turn. Would explain why Luiz was so casual and caught out as a result. 

2 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

Just bumping this because he seems to have got off the hook while everyone piling into Nakamba

Yeah everybody, don’t forget about laying into 21yr old Douglas Luiz who made a mistake. Honestly...

3 hours ago, omariqy said:

I did a PL predictor thing and had us surviving on 38 points and finishing 16th. Bournemouth in 18th going down with 36 points. I think I was pretty pessimistic too. I had us with the following results:

Man City (h) - L
Brighton (a) - D
Watford (h) - W
Bournemouth (a) - D
Spurs (h) - L
Southampton (a) - L
Sheff Utd (h) - W
Leicester (a) - L
Chelsea (h) - L
Newcastle (a) - D
Wolves (h) - D
Liverpool (a) - D
Man Utd (h) - D
Crystal Palace (h) - W
Everton (h) - D
Arsenal (h) - D
West Ham (a) - D

https://www.leaguetablecalculator.com?u=DSHMOI

 

A draw away to a team that has W19 D1 L0 is pretty optimistic

27 minutes ago, GingerCollins29 said:

Similar one by cresswell in the west ham game last night. Initially given a red, vsr checked it and gave a yellow. I dont think mee's tackle was a red, but definitely a yellow and a fk. Cannot believe the ref or var did nothing. Incredible.

I’d sooner hand out a red for Cresswell than I would for Mee. Cresswells was studs up and feet off the ground, seems a lot more reckless than Mee’s which seems more forceful than uncontrolled.

Such a grey area for referees as VAR can only intervene if it’s to give a red card and if the ref is blowing for a foul there it’s usually a red card or not a foul at all. Rarely if ever see yellows given there. 

5 minutes ago, The Other Mat said:

I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt but I cant. His eyes were on the ball but he is still seeing Wesley's legs. Obviously I don't think he meant to destroy his knee, but the intention was there to give Wesley a knock, thats enough for it to be considered dangerous and bordering on wreckless. 

Red card worthy? I’d hate to be a defender if so

6 minutes ago, The Other Mat said:

There's no doubt that Mee's intention was to clatter Wesley with the follow through. It was a classic reducer, trying to rough him up and lessen his impact on the game. I love to see big challenges but not at the cost of seeing some young players career put at risk. To top it off the the Burnley fans booing and calling him a w*nker as he was stretchered off was classless. 

Agree - although in Mee’s defence he’s done it in the “fairest” way possible in that it was a fifty-fifty ball that was there to be won rather than a tackle from behind as some are claiming. The fact that Wes has come away injured makes it seem worse, but his leg was unfortunately planted awkwardly and resulted in a hyperextension. Plenty of similar tackles occur where the players get up straight away and get on with it unscathed (if a little rattled).

Theres a camera angle of the tackle filmed over by the touchline where it occurred and you can clearly see Mee had all eyes for the ball whereas generally if the intent is to seriously injure you usually see the perpetrators take a glance to see where their victim is right before making the challenge. 
 

13 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

They outlawed cannonball tackle in rugby league due to danger to ACL injuries as far as I'm aware. How is scissor tackle that results in what happened to Wesley allowed. Won the ball is bollocks. You can't go through the back of someone and win the ball. Mee has history. Ref was a disgrace to let that go

I suggest you watch the footage again...

13 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

Need to see the video again, but I thought he made an unnecessary, deliberate second movement after winning the ball (the "scissoring" motion). I genuinely don't think Mings would do a tackle like this.

You can tackle people very aggressively without maiming them, if you use one leg, go in low, and hit the ball cleanly, and I'm all for that.

I'm not a great fan of the idea of "excessive force", because it's unfair on bigger, stronger players who naturally put more force into a tackle. I even think we've gone too far on punishing players going high on a bouncing ball, or going with one set of studs up. Usually these just leave a nasty bruise.

But Mee's tackle looked like he was deliberately trying to leave a bit of interest on the tackle, and by twisting the standing leg, he's potentially done permanent damage to Wesley's knee. I don't see why he needed to tackle the way he did to win the ball. If he tucks his left leg in, Wesley comes out of that uninjured.

But this is all from memory and from the photos. Will be interesting to see it again on video.

It’s certainly a tough one to call and is bound to have many different opinions on it. Having watched it about 10 times from a number of angles myself, my conclusion is that Mee was entirely going for the ball although probably wasn’t concerned if he cleaned up Wesley in the process. In the context of the game (2-0 down at home and in all likelihood receiving a rollicking from Dyche at half time), it’s the sort of committed challenge that you’re expected to make in that situation as a centre half otherwise you’re labelled as “not up for the fight”. 
 

I’d expect Mings to do the same in that situation and certainly wouldn’t have those tackles in the same bracket as ones that the likes of Kevin Muscat and Vinnie Jones would regularly make where the intent was clearly to injure.  

4 hours ago, birdman said:

Wesley picking up a serious looking injury after ending his goal drought... does it get any more VILLA than that?! Will be a miracle if he's only out for a month I'm fuming with the officials and that absolute weapon Ben Mee! 

Gutted and frustrated about the injury but I personally don’t think the challenge warranted a red card. It was a solid challenge that caught Wesley in an awkward position and seemed more unfortunate than outright malicious. 
 

If Mings had made the same challenge on Chris Wood and had been sent off I would certainly feel hard done by.

Hate the idea of playing Taylor as a wing back. In this system the wing backs become crucial to our width and Taylor is not someone we want on the ball...

Luka Jovic loan listed by Real Madrid.... wishful thinking for a 6 month stint?

39 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Everyone has different body language. Just judge players by how they're playing on the pitch. There were countless times that Trez was just strolling around the pitch where even Wesley was putting in work and harrying the defenders. 

On top of that, when the ball finally came to him either from a poor opposition pass or one from his teammate he almost invariably wasn't ready and took an embarrassingly heavy first touch. But he runs around like a headless chicken so I guess that means he shows pashun.

Everyone’s body language is different yes but an individuals body language and performance are closely linked. El Ghazi is in the poorest run of form he’s had for the club since joining and it’s no coincidence that he’s playing with a sulk and showing little desire. A weak mindset will always lead to a drop in performance.

Trez looked as if he was gassed whereas El Ghazi looks lazy. Again, not defending the effectiveness of Trez’s running but with a bit more match fitness and time in the side I think we will see an improvement there whereas I can’t see where the improvements going to come from with El Ghazi unless his attitude changes. Just doesn’t seem like a man you’d want next to you in the trenches.
 

1 hour ago, Awol said:

That’s where we disagree. I don’t think he was injured, just not up for the fight. Pretty sure that’s why Jack gestured at him to get up again when he went down. Anyway, it’s only opinions and mine is that we have two dud wingers that need replacing ASAP. If we could get Bowen & Benrahma then I’d sell them both in Jan. 

Agree with you here. 

Everything about El Ghazi’s body language at the minute stinks and he’s really starting to rile me up.

Say what you want about Trez (and I’ll be the first to say his performances haven’t been great) at least you can see the passion in him and he seems to really have bought into the club and the battle were in. Watch the reactions of the two players when we scored - says it all.

6 minutes ago, maqroll said:

Olivier Giroud could do the trick. 

Where's Darren Bent these days? He kept us up once before with a barrage of second half goals..

Of all the reasonable options available to us at the minute, a loan till the end of the season for this man would be easily top of my list. Wonderful touch for a big man and could see him linking up so well with Grealish. I know the board don’t want to go down the loan route but if we’re as straddled by FFP this window as some would have us believe, this would be a very shrewd short term solution to our woes up top. 

3 minutes ago, KHV said:

I’d rather have kept Whelan for 12 months

No thanks. 

11 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

Obviously Grealish MOTM. Luiz second best for me. Driven performance.

Showed willing to get on the ball in a nervy side. Got balls this lad.

First time I’ve really liked him. We all know he’s wonderful technically but today he showed heart, determination and a real engine to run out the game. Gave away a couple of silly fouls and had a few poor touches but if he plays every game with this aggro and grit I’m sure he will be a wonderful asset.

1 minute ago, lexicon said:

Played in a two or three IIRC. Played in a 1.1 with the wingers' performances today but still his fault I'm sure.

Agree with you there!

Was he a lone striker at Brugge or playing in a 2? 
 

He’s effectively a Heskey without the aerial ability to me. 

Absolutely gutless first half. Disgraceful body language, no willingness to close down and zero threat on the ball. 
 

... and that’s not even mentioning his “defending” for that corner!

3 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

No he doesn't.

He doesn't want to tackle.

He doesn't want the ball.

He doesn't want to cross.

He doesn't want to do anything except the absolute easiest thing there possibly is. So if he gets it it's very rare he does anything other than turn around and pass it 30 yards backwards.

Useless isn't strong enough a word.

For the record I think Neil Taylor makes Wesley look like Pelé himself. 
 

I took your comment more as a stab at Neil Taylor’s character which I may have misunderstood. Personally I’ve never had a problem with his application, it’s just that he’s so woefully bad as a footballer that he makes it seem like he isn’t trying even though he is. 
 

I don’t think he chooses the easiest option every time to hide, I think he chooses the easiest option because he knows he can’t do anything constructive with the ball and has probably been instructed to pass it off to someone who can. 

31 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

I hate watching him so much.

Shouldn't be near a league squad this season.

Doesn't want to participate.

Of course he does, he’s just rubbish.

45 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

I don’t know how far in the move you are going back but if Wesley was involved with his ‘basic but effective one-two’ it was way back and a long time before the cross was engineered (when Wesley was in the box and failed to get his head to a simple cross for which he was clear favourite)

I don’t buy into the ‘Wesley is completely useless’ camp - he has shown improvement (not every game) - but he is such a long way from what we require and lacks many of the necessary tools

No Pace - No trick - No 1 v 1 ability - No Shot - No heading ability - No predatory instinct - Goes down unnecessarily.

i truly believe that if we had a Maupay or Pukki type CF we would be top half

We will definitely bring in another striker in the window and from then on Wesley’s game time will be extremely limited 

Agree with all of this. Wesley definitely didn’t start that move, it was Grealish who started that move from a creative perspective.

That being said, I don’t think Wesley is as bad as some have made him out to be but he is still so far off what’s currently required.

5 minutes ago, Johnnyp said:

Oh look everyone, it's captain hindsight 

Exactly. Let’s not blame the manager for the sake of blaming someone. El Ghazi was at fault for the first anyway and the second was a sloppy corner. 

The combination of Neil Taylor playing and the 10 men behind the ball tactics of Wolves nullified his effectiveness in my opinion. He was forced to run into the channels on the left to offer an option for Taylor as everyone on the pitch knew Taylor wasn’t going to exploit any space on the left, and I think that pulled him away from the edge of the area where he’s most dangerous. Whenever he did receive it from Taylor there was just a wall of Wolves defenders blocking any cross.