ViewFromT2

19 minutes ago, rodders0223 said:

Brighton team that got promoted - Bruno - 36 year old RB,  Lewis Dunk - big stiff centre half, Dale Stephens - industrial plodder, Sidwell - 34 year old journeyman, Knockaert -skillful winger, no physical attributes, Hemed - big lump, Murray - 6ft 33 year old journeyman striker.

 

Not much pace and power there.

They played attacking football on the front foot, regardless of size....they looked powerful enough to me!

Did they sit 8 men behind the ball every week? Did they play 2 holding midfielders at home against every team in the league?

Scott Murray only played 22 games

Lewis Dunk was the best centre back in the championship, by some distance. Stiff? no idea what that is supposed to mean.

Sidwell is 2 years older than Jedinak believe it or not.....but still plays like he's 15 years younger. Jedinak's lack of mobility is excruciating to watch. The fact he has missed pre season should be a huge worry as he won't be fit till January most likely....but Bruce loves him and he will play as soon as he is available.

9 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

Gestede the only player at the club that could head the ball? Poor Kozak was the 'forgotten man' throughout his whole time here.

Unfortunately Kozak coudn't run...at all....even Jedinak would of looked like Shergar next to him.

He could finish though, but once he got that injury it was inevitable it wasn't gonna happen for him...shame cos I did actually like him. 

5th best defence in league last year. The way we set up, we are never going to concede many. 

4th WORST goalscorers in league last year. Only the three relegated teams plus Blues were worse than us. Now looking at the players available to Bruce....that is a very....very worrying stat. Does anybody honestly see that situation improving to the tune of the required extra 30 odd goals we will need this season? Where on earth are those goals coming from?

Kodija and Hogan both capable of getting 20 goals individually. However on last years evidence, if they play together they won't get anywhere near that.

To even get competitive around the top 6 Steve Bruce has to completely change the mentality and approach of the team. The signings he has made and the evidence seen in preseason games do not suggest he is looking to do that.

We will not win enough games by playing cautious football. The evidence is there, just look at the teams that have gone up over recent seasons....they play attacking football and are generally full of youthful, energetic players. They will generally have a 25 goal + striker and a midfield that contributes another 20 odd goals.

How many goals do you see our midfield getting when forced to play so deep?

We have a pretty tough start to the season in my opinion, and the fact Wyness has already heaped the pressure on Bruce regarding promotion this season won't help. It also means that we have to be up and around those top spots from the get go. Last season proved yet again that its very tough to make up ground in the championship. You need to be in the mix all season. It took an average of 1.75 points per game to reaach the play offs last season, so with that in mind if we are not sitting on around 17/18 points by the time Bolton come to Villa Park on 30 September, than I think Bruce will be sacked.

On 7/29/2017 at 23:44, PatrickCousens said:

Villa in 'needing a number 10' shocker. Someone remind me when we last had a good one? 

Hmm....do we though? What's the point?

We have a manager that doesn't even attempt to play through the lines. We don't even attempt to get anyone on the ball 30 yards out. He plays a striker (when fit) that does best when creating for himself. We have a manager that buys another winger and ups the crosses into the box pre-season, 6 months after selling the only player at the club that could head the ball.

Could go on.

For what it's worth, should we ever get a manager in that tries to play the kind of football that requires a number '10', then Jack Grealish is perfect for the role at this level. He doesn't have the pace to play wide but what he does bring is the ability to carry the ball into the final third and he has a terrific eye for a pass. The likes of Hogan will thrive of that service. Unfortunately though, it just isn't gonna happen.

I worry about us this season. Teams that do well in this division are full of vibrant youth. Full of pace and power. Full of desire and energy. They also tend to play flowing attacking football. We are nothing like that at all and whilst Bruce has brought in players that he feels will be able to cope with playing for this club....I just don't see them improving us by 30 ish points. 

It's quite ironic really. Of all the people involved in the first team squad, Bruce himself is yet to prove he is capable of performing his role for such a big club, never mind the players!

2 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

The only team they have played us off the park at VP was wolves

Norwich played us off the park.....as did QPR for long spells.

Just jumped in to the thread again, I haven't ready more than 2 or 3 posts on the previous page, but are people actually complaining about the style of football?

I may have got it wrong, so apologies if so. 

There is only one style of football worth playing, and that's a winning style!

I've watched us become far more direct AT THE RIGHT TIMES in recent games. When we break up an attack, our first look is to try and spring Kodija or Adomah...what's wrong with that? I've also seen us knock the ball around the back four and through midfield. This is exactly the same style employed by Martin O'Neil. Our best asset is pace up top, if we aren't gonna exploit it, what's the point? Do people want Kodija to come and show to feet in our half? 

Again, apologies if I've jumped to the wrong conclusions after only reading a handful of posts/replies.

16 minutes ago, TheMelvillan said:

I just hope that if we miss out on top six by 1 point people dont start pointing at any of his individual errors as the reason 

Well of course some will...that's the way it is!

I don't think we can look past last summer's transfer dealings and the opening 12 games for an explanation of our predicament. We went pretty much half a season without a midfield!

Take half a dozen more points under RDM

• Huddersfield at Home - Conceded on 86mins. should of won = +2pts
• Forest at Home - Conceded on 86 mins. should of won = +2pts
• Brentford at Home - Conceded on 87 mins.Should of won = +2pts

and just a measly half a dozen during Jan/Feb and we'd be sitting in 6th now.

• We were worth a point at Wolves = +1pt
• 2-0 up at home to Preston and not winning was low point of season = +2 pts
• We threw away a point at Forest = +1pt
• to lose to Ipswich at home was unbelievable after playing ok, definitely 3 points dropped = +3pts

I know all teams can look back at their seasons with "if only" tinted spectacles, but I really think this season we can justify it. Our current position at the top of the current form table is no surprise and until its mathematically impossible....we have to still believe we can sneak in. 

After the Newcastle loss (another game where we could easily have nicked a point if you remember the chances we missed)...we were 17th and 22 pts off the paces. A mere 6 games later and we are only 11pts off 6th place. 

It's unlikely, but if such an achievement was ever going to happen, it would happen in the championship!

1 hour ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

You would be inclined to think so, but looking at the points tally of the SIX it looks like it will be higher.

it's all hypothetical obviously, but statistically 75 points has been enough every season bar one in the the last 12.

Results Saturday shows that teams in and around that top 6 are not invincible by any stretch. They will all be dropping points on the run in

16 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Mods close the thread, we are going up this year....

if we win the last 9 we finish on 75 points....75 points gets you a play off place!

51 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Sorry I can't agree. This year you a hve Newcastle and Brighton who are in my eyes premier league class. I would say both are better than the likes of Hull and Sunderland 

If defoe goes Sunderland will be in massive trouble if they come down Nd don't get taken over

I respect your opinion.

By saying they are premier league class are you suggesting both teams will stay up next year with the squads they have?

I don't think the championship is all that great to be honest. The two teams running away with it are really no that good, and certainly will struggle in the prem unless they strengthen considerably. ...as we proved down at Brighton by outplaying them for large parts. Also, Sheffield Wednesday have been up in the van all season....and I thought they were awful on Saturday!

There is a huge gulf opening between the championship and the Premier League....and despite what you say about the likes of sunderland, I expect them to be competitive in the championship if Moyes remains in charge. Just my opinion

...time will tell!

Gonna be at least 10-12 teams competing for the top 6, as there is every year. The three teams that come down this year will be the first to come down earning more money than half of europe's top division winners! All will be capable of getting back up first time of asking. None of them look in the kind of shape we were in last year....apart from possibly Middlesboro...as they have half of our crap from last year :-)

Sunderland will be at the top end under Moyes you would think, and Hull proved last season they are capable of getting up. Keeping that managar will be key for them.

I expect Rowett to have Derby at the top end of the table, Leeds, Huddersfield, Reading, Norwich, Preston, Fulham will be up there again (apart from whichever one of them wins the play offs). I expect Warnock will get Cardiff very competitive.

Sheffield Utd coming up will always be a tough game for people, and with the likes of Bolton and Millwall looking like possibly coming up too....I think next years championship will definitely be harder than this years. 

I think two teams romping away at the top all season proves this year is a sub-standard championship. I expect both Newcastle and Brighton to struggle in the prem unless they strengthen considerably.

How come we are the only team playing on Easter Saturday (at 3pm), when everyone else plays Good Friday....then, we kick off before everyone else on Easter Monday? 

Some teams will get 72 hours between their Easter kick off times, we get less than 48!

1 minute ago, briny_ear said:

Weirdly, it made me think of that old expression "poles apart". 

Well that's the expression I'm familiar with....but was a bit worried I'd missed out on a new vibe.... 

11 minutes ago, Eastie said:

And we could be above them in just over a week if they don't - very little between both - certainly not parallels apart .

What does 'parallels apart' mean? 

On 3/3/2017 at 16:22, Flynnchin84 said:

Joint second highest scorer and player with the most assists?

In a team that scores, on average...ONE GOAL PER GAME!

In the championship....so does that make Adomah a good player? Not in my view.....2nd highest scorer and most assists when we're scoring 2/3 per game then yeah you have a point!

Forget stats anyway, just watch him play....!

2 hours ago, sne said:

Think he might try Kodija on the left again, with Hogan central? 

I love seeing Green on the left, but he's young and won't be consistently good yet. Plus he might be out injured for a while.

Then again we're not spoiled with having quality cover on the bench, most successful teams does.

We just have loads of players 

Kodija on the left and Green on the right in my opinion.

Adomah doesn't do it for me....When all are fit and well, GREEN - HOGAN - KODIJA might be worth a look.

4 hours ago, John said:

Agreed. I gave the point(s) from these games as I guessed those results would go. I still think we will most likely need 78 points but I like your optimism and hope that say 74 might be enough so all we need to do is go ahead and get them to find out.  

I looked at the last 10 (or 12 cant remember which) years of tables. Only once in that time was 75pts not enough to finish top 6. That's why I reckon that will be enough....my guess is we'll finish on around 65 ish....which when you consider how many points we have literally thrown away inside the last 10 minutes of games is soul destroying!

21 hours ago, John said:

I had a bit of time on my hands this morning as you will see below.

The maximum points that the teams who are currently more than 10 points above us can get (that might therefore be within range if we somehow achieve those magical 78 points) along with their remaining games are:

Leeds – 97 points (Small Heath (a), Fulham (a), QPR (h), Brighton (h), Reading (a), Brentford (a), Preston (h), Newcastle (a), Wolves (h), Burton (a), Norwich (h) & Wigan (a).

Reading – 96 points (Wolves (h), Newcastle (h), Preston (a), Sheff Weds (a), Leeds (h), Blackburn (h), Norwich (a), Villa (a), Rotherham (h), Forest (a), Wigan (h) & Burton (a).

Sheffield Wednesday – 94 points (Norwich (h), Burton (h), Villa (a), Reading (h), Barnsley (a), Rotherham (a), Newcastle (h), Cardiff (h), QPR (a), Derby (h), Ipswich (a) & Fulham (h).

Fulham – 92 points (Preston (h), Leeds (h), Newcastle (a), Blackburn (a), Wolves (h), Rotherham (a), Derby (a), Ipswich (h), Norwich (a), Villa (h), Huddersfield (a), Brentford (h) & Sheffield Weds (a).

My own forecast for the points these teams are likely to end up with from those games (assuming they lose any games against us) are:

Leeds 89, Reading 78, Sheffield Weds 77 & Fulham 70.  

We would need to win all of our remaining games to make top 6 if my forecasts are accurate or hope that Reading or Sheffield Weds go on the sort of run that we had at the start of this year and that we drop a maximum of 2 – 4 points at the very most having made up goal differences of 7 and 14 respectively should it come down to that. Given this, I think the odds are heavily stacked against us getting a top six spot or 78 points (although there still remains a very slender chance to cling to ). My more realistic aim would now be a top ten finish and anything higher than that would be a bonus to take into next season but who wants to be realistic?

Agree with this post. I've highlighted the games where those teams play each other...they can't both win those games 

This shows that there is still so much to play for...still over a quarter of a season!

If we assume 75 points is the magic number for the play offs, the teams currently in those spots need:

• 3rd Huddersfield (65) need 10 pts from 13 games
• 4th Leeds (61) need 14 pts from 12 games
• 5th Reading (60) need 15 pts from 12 games
• 6th Sheff Wed (58) need 17 pts from 12 games

Huddersfield look nailed on for a top 6 spot. However the next 4 games for them are by no means a gimme. Newcastle and us at home then Brentford and Bristol City away. Pretty certain they will secure at least 10 more points this season. They will still be aiming for automatic promotion.

Leeds have been a revelation under Monk haven't they? Remember a lot of villa fans didn't want him coming to us after Lambert (doh!)...Obviously hop they win tonight, they are then just 11 pts away. 

Reading still have wolves, rotherham, wigan and blackburn to play at home, I expect them to win all of those games, and will certainly pick up a few draws as well at least. They are a shoe in for one of the spots.

Sheff Wed are probably the team most likely not to make it from the current top 6. 17 pts from 12 is not a simple task. They don't have too many straight forward  looking games left, and if they don't beat Norwich tomorrow it could get interesting.

So for my money everyone from Sheff Wed down to us is playing for 1 spot. Of the teams above us, there aren't too many that are capable of putting the sort of run together that will be required to snatch 6th place from Sheff Wed if they falter. By default, this may mean the 5pt cushion Sheff Wed currently have will be enough to see them home. 

Just (for a minute)....imagine if we somehow win on Saturday and then go and get a lucky 1-0 win at Huddersfield on Tuesday....then beat Sheff Wed next week 

No way on earth we can do that.....but just imagine if we did put what would be 6 straight wins together, could we then start to dream? Certainly we would be brimming with confidence by then and most certainly be the 'form' team in the division. 

No...of course we couldn't....but....it's not impossible is it? , so whilst there's life there's hope!

The last 9 games (after Sheff Wed game) we have 5 at home and 4 away. 3 of those 4 away are against Wigan, Blackburn and Burton....

It's not in my nature to give up. Whilst we still have a chance then we have to believe. Of course the chances are slim...less than slim....but a chance is a chance!

I would be devastated if the players and Steve Bruce had given up hope whilst we still had a punchers chance....devastated! 

Until it's mathematically impossible....then I will always believe we can do it.!

I am one of Bacuna's biggest detractors, never rated him....ever.

But the bloke played very, very well on Saturday, and it might just be that playing alongside a proper midfielder in Lansbury, with the protection of Jedinak behind brought the best out of him. He put in a tireless display, and yes, some of his distribution let him down, but always tried to put his mistakes right. He was most definitely out man of the match on Saturday in my view. Shame he is unavailable now, maybe it's time Gary Gardner showed us what he can do alongside Lansbury if Hourihane is unavailable again.

There are too many fans that are just too blinkered in my opinion. I'm sure they decide on a performance as soon as they see the team sheet! 

Just now, kurtsimonw said:

I think dropping him helped us win, yes. Not just because he wasn't in the side, nor because it meant he wasn't taking the corner we scored from, but also because Bacuna replaced him and played very well.

But seriously, I don't know. While the above I do believe is somewhat true, I think having Jedinak back was the bigger reason and I'm looking forward to Hourihane finally having a game alongside him in midfield, as I think it'll do him wonders.

He's injured. He wasn't dropped!

Dead leg...should be available for tomorrow night.

He's a good player and in the right environment he will prove it. Completely mis-managed last season (as they all were)....but even then you could see he is a player, great passer of the ball, great vision. 

Personally hope we keep him next season.

Just now, GREAT_BEARD_OF_ZEUS said:

The Samba situation is a perfect example of a Bruce dropping another clanger and he knows it.

Look at our defense, it's tiny!  Chester, Elphick, Amavi, Bree, Richards - all sub 6ft!  Only Hutton and Baker are of a reasonable height (not giants mind) and you can't rely on either because ones too injury prone and the other's a positionally inept waste of time.  When we had Benteke and to a degree Gestede, we had a big guy we could bring back to help defend those situations.  We don't even have that now (you could maybe argue Kodjia, but to a much lesser degree).  Right now, i'd say Jedi is our only decent threat/defense aerially and that's pathetic.

Ask any proper defender about the golden rule when it comes to defending long balls, corners, free kicks etc - DON'T LET THE BALL BOUNCE IN THE BOX.  Newcastle was a prime example of what happens when you do.  But how do you stop that happening with midgets (pardon the exaggeration)?

We should have signed a big imposing centre half (and kept Gestede) but we didn't and now we're scraping the free-agent bin trying to rectify the sorry situation.

 

Not strictly true...'attacking the ball' is what they should be doing, and we don't....in either box. Nothing wrong with letting a ball bounce if you're first to it and attacking it. Problem is when you're caught on your heels and you just lash a leg at it...Kodija, Elphick, Hutton, Baker, Chester...all guilty of that recently.

Defensively we are very poor technically. Look at starting positions, body shape etc when the ball is wide, we are just terrible. Love to know the percentage of goals we concede from wide areas (inc. corners)?...I wouldn't mind betting its up around the 70% mark. Every time the ball is wide we look vulnerable. 

Our full backs never stop the cross...ever. That's the first rule of defending as a full back. Stop the cross.

Then when it does come in our marking is ridiculous. Centre Backs have no idea where strikers are because their body shape is 'closed' not 'open'. First thing we were ever taught....man and ball,....as a defender you must be able to see man and ball. Turn your bodies FFS!

For professional footballers, Chester, Baker and Elphick are extremely poor at this basic defensive principle!

If we get shot of Bruce now, we simply must make sure it is the last change for the forseeable future. For me the replacement must meet at least 6 of the following criteria:

• Proven track record in the championship (to get us out of it)
• Proven track record in the premier league (to keep us in in)
• Defined 'style of play'
• Ability to handle pressure from and expectations of fan base
• 'Big' personality - in the mould of Ron Atkinson, John Gregory etc
• Willing to work and develop current squad with little further investment
• Ability to promote and develop youth players to enhance squad
• Proven success in the transfer market when needed

Not that this is a concise list, but clearly even looking for a candidate that meets only 6 of the 8 requirememts, there are not too many names that fit the bill when you break it down. 

Unless we can find such a candidate, is there really any point replacing Bruce?