dukes

We tried to play some passing football tonight, trouble is a McLeish coached team are utterly incapable of doing so. Players looked clueless, no movement up top except runs down blind alleys and no pass and move in midfield.

Albrighton should be embarrassed. Truly one of the worst individual performances I've ever witnessed and he was up against Ricardo Gardner!

So you're saying that after six games and 3 months of McLeish our team of highly paid professionals have forgotten how to pass, and run ? So intact forgotten how to play football ? The same footballers that have been parsing McLeish's management and coaching style ?

I just don't buy that, for starters most of the coaches are the same as they have been for the last few seasons.

It's a crap result, as have been the last two results. We need a win on Sunday, anything else and i'll consider it a poor start to the season. I still won't be ready to call for McLeish's head though.

I actually pity anyone who owns a football club these days. Even the billionaire Russians and Arabs, their money means nothing in football unless the club they own turns out the results.

If they don't spend, buying big name players on eight figure transfer fees and six figure a week salaries (please, stand back for a second and actually think about the enormity of paying someone that much money a WEEK), then the "fans" (yes, quotation marks) won't turn up - and if the fans don't turn up they can't afford to buy/pay the players.

Are there REAL fans any more or just lots of people who expect an enormously rich person to p*ss their personal wealth up the wall with the sole aim of making a bunch of disillusioned people in a far away town feel superior for 90 minutes a week by being able to gloat that "they" have spent £400bn on players and are paying them enough to redeem the entire national debt of Greece in under 3 months?

RL is clearly doing what needs to be done, putting Villa on a stable financial footing and avoiding it getting into a situation where we end up bankrupt, or entirely reliant on an owner to prop its aspirations up.

Even the Glazers, with their banknote-printing stake in one of the world's richest clubs are now having to sell of a portion of their riches to get their debts to a more manageable level.

Some more points...

We were not about £24m in the red in the Jan transfer window? £18m up front for Bent and £6m for Makoun? In the summer we recouped this by selling Young and Downing, less the fees for Given and N'Zogbia. I am pretty sure that Bent's signing in January was made with money we expected to get back by the sale of Young. In 2011 the transfer window has seen the club not actually get much richer or poorer from transfer fees. We've saved a lot on wages with the outgoing players but it was on the cards that the wage bill had to decrease.

Next - when we're getting 30,000 crowds for a local derby then it's no bloody wonder they're cutting costs. Surely this is going to lead to an ever decreasing spiral? Less fans means less revenue means we have to save costs and less to spend on players to get those fans back..... etc etc

I honestly don't think we have a bad squad all things considered. If the fans are going to overlook the development of Bannan, Albrighton, Herd, Delph, Lichaj, et al in favour of the "delights" of spending millions of pounds on "big name" signings then god help us. Personally I think N'Zogbia's looked like a complete waste of £9.5m so far this summer but hey since he cost us lots of money he must be good, right?

If the club is sold, then I honestly thing we are NOT going to get an owner who cares more about the club's future than Lerner. He might have had a hard lesson in football not being a money-maker, but at least he's tried. An Arab billionaire buying the club would be a disaster in the long term, make no mistake.

Great post, I totally agree.

That's the most clutched straw post I've ever seen.

Excellent well reasoned argument.

Well, i'd say he has supported AM.

Are you for real ?

The vast banks of empty seats would appear to suggest you're on your own in that view.

Since the end of last season, a season where we flirted with relegation until the VERY end we've lost the following first teamers ...

Friedel, Young, Downing, Young, Walker, Reo Coker

That's six of the 'better' players from a side that nearly got itself relegated

In any sane view, the team needed strengthening on top of what we had when those 6 were here, what we've done is took a struggling side lost 6 players from it and expected to do better with 2 incomings

What about the rest ?

We havent even stood still. We've lost over half the first 11 from a poor side and not done anything to strengthen it for this season.

If Randy couldn't spend anymore, then he should've been honest and not let his board send out mixed messages. As it is, we're now about 27m in credit from the sales of Young, Young and Downing alone, not to mention the much lighter wage bill from all the others we've lost

So, they appoint a manger nobody wanted (but who i'm sure 99% of us are now firmly behind) and say he will be backed. WHEN will he be backed?.

To me being backed means being allowed to improve on what he inherited. That would mean spending at LEAST what we've bought in from sales to give him at the very least a fighting chance to succeed.

In fact i think a budget of 10m on TOP of what we've received would've been fair even on a modest housekeeping watch.

To sum up, the board have well and truly **** off a vast amount of supporters this summer and once that happens you'll do well to get them back through the gates. All the offers for cheap tickets for the first two games haven't swayed folks into comng back and i suspect the only thing that will is a board doing what they said they would.

Either back 'their' man or sell up and let someone else have a go.

I explained why i think they are backing him. AM knew the situation when he signed for us, he made that clear in his press conference.

The players you state as having left an deed replacing i disagree on, Firedel has been replaced by younger better keeper. Walker, was a liability in defence, but good going forward, I think Herd and Lichaj are better defenders than him. Downing has been replaced by N'Zogbia, Reo Coker is yet to be replaced, but ha sharply been a permanent fixture in the first team the last 4 years, and his passing was atrocious. Luke Young, was invariably injured or just not good enough, similar to Walker int hat he's probably better going forward than he is in defence.

So IMO we need to replace Ashley Young, how the hell do you do that with a few cotton reals and buttons ?

I think the board would agree that the team needs strengthening, but i think their priority for this season is addressing the wage bill, and that's why we're in a period of transition.

1. The key question asked is, "Will Randy support AM during transfer window?" The answer can be given in two parts 1) When has Randy not supported his Manager? and 2) Yes, Randy will support AM. He will support AM as he has supported all of his Managers...he will work to keep the wage bill at a manageable level and, at the same time, will recognize where the Club needs to be strengthened and support the Manager in meeting those needs.

on 4th July

1. Ginko, I am not sure what a "clear sign" would entail? I would think that Randy's willingness to splash cash at every window is some indication of a clear sign of where he wants the Club to go. .

30 May

So Dukes 2 recent quotes that mention the transfer window - that closes in a few days

Well, i'd say he has supported AM, Friedel went, we bought in a younger, hungrier keeper in Given (and probably on bigger wages).

Downing went, and we bought in N'Zogbia.

Young has left and now we're looking to bring in other players.

I believe the support for the manager is there, but I think the board learned that you can't just blindly back your manager without considering the effect on the bottom line. I also believe AM was totally aware of what was required when he took the job.

I thought that he looked his most effective for us before he got subbed, he missed a couple if chances, but was starting to get involved, and we were dominant. I couldn't believe that Heskey was overlooked, the guy was like the walking dead for half of the second half.

People, I can accept what is going on IF we are told the reasons......what pisses me off is the misinformation - READ MY SIG! that is what is pissing me off - saying one thing and doing another.

Yes, but in the quote in your sig it doesn't mention anything about timescales, or even what kind of support they would give.

I'm sure they are behind the manager 110%, I'ma leo certain that within the financial constraints they agreed they will back him in the transfer market.

Nobody's lying, nobody's misleading, we have to cut the wage bill by shedding the dross. Does that really need a club statement ? Wouldn't that be a bit smalltime ?

And ther cost cutting is getting worse really....... like Ken Wheldon at St.Andrews taking out every other bulb to save money the club now will not issue coats to outside members of staff they are signed for and handed in after every game ....presumably as not everyone attends every game they can save money on about 10 coats......which I thought they got free from Nike in any case.

Added to this staff are practically searched when reporting for duty having to hand over mobile phones, keys and wallets.... do they club think they are all thieves? Thats the way some feel!

I don't see what everyone's beef is with this, never heard of the saying 'look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves' ? People will steel anything, and why should the club have to put up with that ? I assume that this means people such as stewards, and cleaners, but maybe there has been a high turnover of staff in those area's and with it a lot of missing jackets etc. Is it really that important ? Personally I wouldn't want to wear a fluorescent coat outside of work, but as I said people will steel anything.

Regarding the bit in bold, is it possible this is during security checks ? It seems a bit draconian to confiscate these items permanently, not to mention a complicated process of holding them then reissuing them.

Sure, but what struck me is that the club is reducing paltry expensenses, that don't significantly improve its financial situation and seem made "for show".

Very much like not allowing expenses for insect repellent which was rightly ridiculed at the tine that cost saving was made, but a similar cut now is seen as good housekeeping

See the really frustrating thing for me is the excuses made by the fanbase for the actions of the current owner. The fact that a large element will look to excuse his actions, look for a smokescreen excuse or similarly believe it is still part of a grand and well thought out plane to make us a force in UK football. And then when it is obviously not the case look to external factors for the reason why we are not competing. like for example the Man City excuse. I have seen this time and again and frankly I think it is rubbish and a convenient bit of cover for the board. Truth is we are to expect that our push for top four is over because we cannot compete with Man Citeh who are actually going to win the league? They are on a different planet to us financially and every other club in the world perhaps so that is the reason we stopped? I think it is rubbish frankly.

Personally I now hope Randy is looking to sell. I want Villa to be successful and win things. It is clear that will not happen under him. Todays game is now and always will be about money. he doesn't have enough and so we do not have a chance of competing at the top end of the league. Not for me mid table mediocrity because quite simply that plan will ultimately lead to relegation. You can't stand still in this league you have to spend to actually do that, not spending is not an option currently. We got away with it for years under Ellis because the game was different. Eventually we were almost found out

The game today is totally different though and not spending (or the option we are currently following) will not work.

And to those who will say "well who else? we cannot get an owner as good as Randy " etc etc etc, all I'll say is if he is as brilliant as everyone makes out then surely he'll get a buyer who can take this club forward. Afterall Ellis found Lerner and everyone knows that Ellis was only in it for himself.

So shall i put you in the 'expect villa to challenge the top 4 year on year" camp then ?

Being open and honest with the fan base would be a risk sure, but then there are supposed to be some 7000 tickets still available for the Wolves game. So I would argue that staying quiet isn't exactly working either.

Sure some wouldn't like it if Randy gave an interview saying what our revised aims are but I think that quite a sizable amount of the fan base would appreciate it and would be mature enough to understand it even if they didn't much like it. It would be honest, it would fit with the image he built up in the first few years here and people would understand decisions, understand the direction and that a plan was in place and what that plan was.

It would seem though that those running the club don't have enough faith in the supports to take that step, they must fear the backlash or the result but as I said there were yesterday some 7000 unsold tickets for our second home game of the season against a local rival.

I don't think Randy should bankrupt himself or us trying to chance what is probably an impossible goal I just think they have handled a lot of things badly in the last 12-18 months and continue to do so. That is why people don't know where we are heading and start to talk about a possible sale.

I particularly agree with your last point

It's difficult to know how fans will react to bad news or an adjustment of aims. We have a fanbase that behave so irrationally (as all football fans do from time to time).

To give an example, I took my seat for Saturday's game, and after exchanges pleasantries with the guy I've sat next to for the last few years, the first words he said were "this is a must win game for McLeish, lose this and I want him out". The worrying thing is he didn't seem to be alone in that thought because the people the other side of him agreed. This was the first home game of the season, and McLeish's second competitive game in charge.

It's this kind of fan, that simply won't accept the truth, despite the relaity being different, they expect Villa to be competing for the top 4 year on year, to sign the top players, and unlike you, i think they are the majority. That;s why I don't think telling the fans to expect a few seasons of transition would help matters, because it's the last thing the Burberry boys want to hear.

I think they went for it in terms of the initial spend and their original aims, but it didn't work out. At the same time for the board to have allowed the wage problem to get to the level it did either shows they put too much faith in MON to get a Champions League spot, or shows they were a little naive in letting him dictate the palyers and salaries that were required. SO no matter if the club is being primed for a sale, or if it's just a matter of making the finances manageable, it's the right thing to do, and that would be good house keeping (cost cutting can be good house keeping).

I agree that the club have got communication wrong, the 'open' ethos has created a rod for their own back, they told us plenty, now we want to know more, but at the same time we don't want to hear bad news i guess, so what should they do ?

Perhaps Randy has taken us as far as he can go, perhaps he's just got fed up, i'd still be worried if he sold the club, as he's proven to be one of the more sympathetic foreign owners.

I can understand people asking the question, "what's he upto", but i'd have thought one look at our recent accounts, combined with the Fifa Finance Fairplay rules should give everyone an idea of what he's upto. A sale is always a possibility, geographically we're in a good position, with sustained success we could easily grow our local and global fanbase, the problem is to get the kind of instant success we all crave and any new owner would want we'd need an oil sheikh or Oligarch, and there seems to be many more bad experiences with these peple than good. I'm not sure I'd want Arab billionaires creating Disney World Witton around our proud and beloved club.

People are linking them for the following reasons;

1. Cost cutting exercises do often precede the business being prepared and offered for sale. This might not be the case in this instance but because it is often the case people are bound to speculate.

2. Communication - The General is currently MIA while hearing from Randy is more rare than rocking horse shit or John Carew having a quiet night at home with a good book. There is no real communication from the club and as such their is a vaccum of uncertainty and with the cost cutting growing suspicion within some.

Now people might be totally wrong, they might be wide of the mark and you could be right it could be just a bye product of the current financial climate or Randy's own financial position. It is though not at all surprising that such discussions are becoming more frequent given the way the club is being run at the moment.

While cost cutting and balancing the books can be a sign of preparation for a sale, they could also just be a matter of good house keeping. We took a pop at the top 4 in the first few seasons of Randy's regime, we've failed in that for various reasons (Man City possibly being the biggest), and now we're regrouping for another assault with a different approach, or alternatively we've changed our ultimate aim and we're cutting our cloth to suit.

Regarding communication, i think we have as much if not more communication between the board and the fans as any club, it's just that we're all impatient. Actually, i wonder why fans believe the board should communicate everything to them ? Yes we're stakeholders, but we're not shareholders and the truth is fans would always find more and more to moan about the more information we're given.

I think the general is keeping a low profile due to the unbelieveable disrespect he's been shown on this and many other boards, and i can't really blame him. As fans we want communication, but when things don't go the way we want we hit out at the very people who were/are communicating.

For what it's worth, I don't think there's a desire to sell the club, i don't even think it would be the right time to do so, however that doesn't mean that we wouldn't be attractive to a takeover at the end of this season when more deadwood is gone.

I think Makoun would have benefited better at Arsenal. We have a team who are still pretty terrible at keeping possession, but at least they have physical attributes. It seemed rather imbalanced with Makoun in the team.

However, I think we would have benefited better in the long run if we shifted MON's kick and rush, with Houllier's pass the ball players. But it seems we're back to kick and rush because the board haven't got a clue on what's best for this club.

You must have watched different games to me this season then. While we haven't played like Barcelona, we certain,y haven't played kick and rush football.

We seem to be having the better of them so far. I'd be happy with a draw to be honest.

Man Utd lost 8-2 last night, I wonder if their fans are overreacting in the same way as we are ?

Is it safe to come out yet only I've run out of Cadbury's Caramels?

Can't beleive you lot have been so stressed out and arguing over stupid things for about 15 pages that you completely missed Ian Taylor's tweet earlier that said McLeish wasn't now due out until Monday. Rest of the squad flew out to HK earlier this evening with Tayls in tow. Kendrick whose with them as well said y'day McLeish was due out on Sunday!!!! So what changed??!!!!

Looking forward to seeing the Zog make his debut on Wednesday night wearing our No 10 hopefully all being well!

Sticking my neck out the bathroom window of course!

You'll do for me !

why should he sign for villa? Just to get settled and then get sold to united the next season? If he comes here he knows he has to replace Young and Downing, and us selling those players makes us look weak and just willing to 'stay up', I'd go to sunderland, ambition is everywhere. Villa are now on a serious decline, getting snubbed for Celtic in transfers is a joke, releasing NRC to watch him go to bolton is another joke (Owen Coyle, another manager that we should have taken), Harry Forrester to AJAX! What is wrong with us??!?!

Are you for real ?

Young and Downing left because they wanted to.

For players like Nzogbia seeing so many players leave us for big salaries at bigger clubs is a draw to AVFC.

Were we officially linked to any player that chose Celtic over us ?

NRC left because he was greedy.

Forrester left because we didn't think he was up to it.

I'm not even sure why I reacted to your post.

If you're buying a tin of beans at the supermarket and you get to the till and the cashier says oh sorry, Beans are advertised at 90p, but we've decided you look a bit richer than that so it's now £1.20, would you still buy ?

Yes, if the beans are still good value at £1.20 and if it's more than likely that beans of a similar standard will cost more than £1.20 and you're not sure how the other beans may taste :winkold:

If your really hungry you will buy those beans, especially if it's the last tin on the shelf and theres a possibility an arsehole from another town may buy them first...

There will always be beans, just like therebwill always be other wingers.

£1 million is nothing to Lerner

That a serious statement??

Is yours?

Might as well bring back Doug

Or you might as well support Man City !

If you're buying a tin of beans at the supermarket and you get to the till and the cashier says oh sorry, Beans are advertised at 90p, but we've decided you look a bit richer than that so it's now £1.20, would you still buy ?

The truth is, we certainly have the extra million, but the only pressure to actually spend the extra on Nzogbia is coming from Wigan and a few disgruntled fans......so the reality (until another formal bid comes in) is that there is no pressure.

Whoever you are a Million Pounds is a lot of money !

Around three weeks to go until the season

And we don't have time how ?

Lerner needs to grow some balls and pay up.

And how exactly is caving in to Wigan's demands 'growing balls' ? Honestly people talk about a Million Pounds like it's 20p from down the back of the sofa.

Until there is another serious bidder we're in control, the player seems to be making noises that he wants to move, Wigan will have to sell the player this summer, or lose him for nothing, so what's the panic ?

Zog move has fallen through by the look of things, apparently adding an extra million to our offer is too much. Pathetic.

Where you heard that it looks like its fallen through? Every indication seems like its still very much on the cards, bar newspaper stories about just needing to cough up an extra million yesterday morning, it sounds like they are very much still negotiating.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11677_7050432,00.html

After reading some of the 'quotes' it looks like they're getting cold feet to be honest.

I'd interpret that as a message to Mr Whelan that Nzogbia is not the only option.

it's just us playing him at his own game, and good on us for doing so.

For all those saying 'just pay the extra million', we're talking about a Million Pound here, if the average salary in this country is £25k per year, then it would take the average man in the street 40 years to earn that.

I'd rather we don't spend it if we believe we can negotiate them down, better the money is in Villa's bank than in Wigan's.

The idea we can go through a whole season with JUST N'Zogbia and Albrighton as our only two wide players is a disturbing one.

That would be an absurd idea. But I suspect they would be the starters with someone else as back up ........maybe SWP or the dutch fella ?

For me, Albrighton deserves a chance to stake his claim.

To me, the timing shows that the NZogbia deal WAS very much dependent on the Downing deal going through. Which begs the question that if Downing didnt go, who would have come in to replace Young, because i'm not convinced it would have been N'Zogbia.

I don't understand how you can jump to that conclusion. The Downing deal is not complete, yet we're still reported to have reached agreement.

Admittedly it's unlikely that the Downing deal will fall through, but, the two are not necessarily linked.

For what it's worth, i'm unsure about Albrighton, but he's good enough to deserve a chance, and old enough to take it. If we don't give him a go now we'll never know how good he could be. Before he was messed about last season I thought he looked at least as good as Downing had done in previous seasons.

*Puts negative hat on*

N'Zogbia really should have been Young's replacement, not Downing's. Timing of deals clearly demonstrates the reluctance of Randy to free up entirety of Young's transfer proceeds for incoming transfer dealings.

*Takes negative hat back off again*

Great player though.

It shows nothing of the sort. All it shows is the deal hasn't been done, it's not an indicator of how much money is available to be spent, or the source of that money.

Plaeyrs have only returned from holiday in the last 10 days or so.