dn1982

12 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Is this exact same debate going to happen everytime we have a bad performancs without a win? 

This thread is like Groundhog Day, 

You could say this thread is as predictable as our football. 

Yeah i Don’t thinks selling Hogan or anyone else benefits that much this window we  may aswell gamble then sell in summer if we don’t go up. 

1 hour ago, Grasshopper said:

What I dont quite understand about ffp is this:

Say we are borderline but on the good side, we then sell Hogan for 5mill (is a 7mill loss on the 12mill figure.).

We buy or pay a 1mill loan fee for a player and pay him the same wages (just fir calculation sake) who bangs em in for fun or not.

Is it the correct calculation that says

1. a 12mill asset sold at 5mill creates a further loss of 7mill which is added to our „loss“ figure thus takes us over the ffp borderline into the bad side

2. Our new 1mill players value as an asset does not increase regardless if he bangs em in or not. a profit will only incurr IF A, he‘s bought for 1mill sold for more (decreasing our losses?) or B, said parent club are happy with our „development“ of their player and reward us 5million for doing so (not that it would happen)

My point is, once an outlay is made regardless if it keeps us within or pushes us over the ffp legal line, the successful or unsuccessful performances dont come into the calculation untill he‘s either (bought) -> sold (loan) -> we are rewarded.

?????

If so

Selling Hogan for an amount less than we paid for him is pointless because that loss effectively increases our overall loss.

Does anyone know enough about ffp to explain either way? please -> thanx

Hogans fee would’ve been spread across his contract. So say £10m is £2m a season over 5 years don’t think it was that’s high but. Then if you sell him for £5m that’s goes on the balance sheet for that year so in effect you’re up for the year but down overall. That’s what I read but like most FFP is baffling and if you’re creative can be sorted out. 

14 minutes ago, TheStagMan said:

So basically you are saying that the players we have are not good enough to be challenging at the top of this league? 

 

Also, how do you know that Dean Smith will not go on to achieve more as a manager than Bruce.

Haven’t Bruce and Smith won exactly the same? Nothing? Has Bruce ever won a Championship? I know he has promotions but I don’t remember a Bruce side running away with this league or any other. Smith has his team playing football that Bruce can only dream about. What could he do with better players?

23 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Agree. Watford have sacked several managers since (and during) the promotion year and it's worked out well for them.

The thing is both Watford and Southampton seem to have a type of manager they want. Someone that fits the profile and more often than not they get it right. Our manager selection process over the years has been appalling. In the case of Mcleish it was actually frightening. 

Managers rarely get sacked when doing well. Rowett and Blues being a case in point but the one difference is I think Rowett got his team over for me we are underachieving. Bruce won’t go anywhere whilst we are in the playoffs but come January Xia will have a stark choice gamble or cross your fingers. I can see us dropping out by Jan after this tough run. 

The reason I never wanted Bruce and would change him now if we could get the right man is our promotion season should be a momentum builder. We should be playing entertaining fottball dare I say it like wolves. We maybe still limp up under Bruce but going to Villa Park is a chore still. WE had 6 years of struggle and it’s affected the fans and club. Now we huff and puff most games. We’ve no actual style. No pattern of play. We seem to rely on just having better players. If we had a manager that got us playing entertaining attacking football Villa Park would be packed and buzzing. We’d go up with momentum and a belief. If Bruce gets up I’ll,have little confidence he can keep us there. WE circled the drain for years I don’t want to go up  and do the same again. 

I can see us being 7/8th after the Bristol game. If we are but still in the hunt for the playoffs will Bruce be sackable? Top 2 was the target and we are falling well short at the minute. I can’t see us getting up through the playoffs playing the way we  are so if we drop out I think Bruce’s position should be looked at very closely.  

1 hour ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

The Swansea lad might be ideal.. but I would like to try for Ulloa on loan first?

 

We’ve already got a young kid upfront so id rather we get an experienced striker too. Ulloa would be ideal and we’d be able to get him in the summer. We need to have a striker who can hit the ground running. 

45 minutes ago, hippo said:

Wot I meant was that Adomah has been thriving in a team that Hogan floundered in. Adomah doesn't have much aerial presence - so if we are playing the suggested hoofball why is Adomah thriving ?   FFS in under 30 minutes up Front Samba has scored more !  (and no it wasn't a header) 

SO you missed out the whole We look better with Davis upfront but highlighted the hoof ball bit? Then named a left winger to prove a point about a striker not scoring?? How many have our strikers scored.??

4 minutes ago, hippo said:

Yeah its been a joy to watch Adomah heading in all those hoof balls.

 

 

Just because we’ve got the Scottish Cafu it’s not like watching Brazil!! 

Fans that say we don’t play hoof ball seem to forget we’ve started playing better with a battering ram upfront. No one says we play long just direct and smashing a ball up to Hogan against a Big centre half doesn’t work. It doesn’t always work with Davis. We aren’t a possesion team and Hogan would probably be better in a 2 instead of playing on his own as he did at Brentford. Ultimately though Bruce bought a player that doesn’t suit his style so something has to give.   

2 hours ago, handsworthvilla said:

Seems to me (after a very quick look at his season stats) that he started the first two games of the season, Bruce obviously thought he was part of the reasons behind the disastrous start and he has not started a match since. He has been reduced to substitute cameos desperately trying to make an impression in a limited amount of time, which is always going to be difficult for a player, especially when your confidence is shot. I imagine that his confidence has been destroyed by the fact that even without Kodija he hasn't got a look in from the start of games, and he has two 19 year olds playing up front instead of him. 

There is a good player in there, it just doesn't look like it will work out for him here. He's probably not athletic enough for Bruce (certainly in this league) so I wouldn't be surprised to see him leave soon. It's a shame as I was excited about seeing him play in a 4-4-2 on the shoulder (in the old Michael Owen fashion) but that doesn't seem to be on the cards. 

It would’ve been been good to see him play with Keinan. His confidence is obviously shot but I think there’s still a good player in there aswell. 

21 hours ago, omariqy said:

True but that game last year was probably the worst game I saw us play. Then this season they were probably the only team where we looked awful against. Even Sheff Wed we had plenty of the ball in the second half and should have done more with it.

We struggle against good passing sides that’s all. Brentford are a cracking passing team but we’ve better players. Reading are similar. Hopefully our bigger squad will help us over Xmas. 

9 hours ago, terrytini said:

Considering that just over a year ago we were breaking records for longest runs without winning, poorest away record etc, I would say if Bruce gets a couple of the records mentioned over the page he will deserve one heck of a pat on the back, regardless of whether one ranks him Number 1, 2, 3, or whatever....money or no money.

I’m sure most of those records have been debunked. If you pick a sample that suits you can prove anything that’s why you should never take stats at face value. Most fans set Bruce the target of automatic promotion. Bruce sets himself a target of 2pts a game. At present we are just short of both. Bruce will get all the plaudits once he gets us promoted no matter how we achieve it even if we finished 6th. I thought we were Bruce’s big chance and he’d relish it and get us playing better football then he’s done previously but he’s reverted to type. I think he’ll get us up probably in 2nd. I also think he wont last 12 months after that because of our expectations and his style. 

3 hours ago, tinker said:

I thing Hogan and Davies could strike a productive partnership, Hogan makes some clever runs and his positioning is also good. Davies could create the opportunities for a Hogan type player to thrive.

It's just a pity that Hogans dreadful injury record has prevented them playing together. 

The ony way Hogan will have any success in a Bruce team is playing off of a big man. 

10 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

The thing is if we play like that way I dont think it suits the rest of our team. the way Bruce has them setup might not be the ebst on the eye but its effective and wins games 

Totally agree but then why did Bruce sign him?

11 minutes ago, ender4 said:

Is anyone else slightly worried that we've won something like 9 out of our last 11 games, and yet only closed the gap to second from 7 points to 5 points - caught up 2 points in 11 games. 

It basically shows that we just need to keep winning continuously for most of the season, and can only have the occasional draw/loss if we want to break into that top 2 by January. 

No because that’s how the tops of leagues go. It’s just we aren’t used to being at the top. The Sheffield Wed game hurt us this month and makes December even harder as we can’t afford many slip ups. 

9 hours ago, srsmithusa said:

Funny,   But he was hired to get us promoted last year, and didn’t.   So far this year he has us at a 25% chance of promotion.  (Playoffs). Some act like he’s brought everything in you list.  Although I do appreciate the wine.   

I think that’s whine not wine 

I love people who quote stats on one thing but then dismiss them on another. Bof’s table backs up what I’ve thought and what I’ve said. We need to do better against our rivals to have a chance. December is a massive month and if we can come through it well we may be able to look at automatic with a bit of confidence. A bad run though and it’ll be the playoffs. 

16 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Well ( again, I’m not what one would call “ pro Bruce) I’ve watched every game bar 2 in 2017 and in my view we are clearly a better team now than we were. But of course I accept that’s just opinion. Our results are clearly better over the last 11 games than any other 11 game period, so that’s a bit of back up.

But regardless of that I would still suggest it’s feasible to think we can get more from our players whereas Wolves are at 100%.

I think we could easily be a better team but Bruce limits his players. We have better players than most. I’d say our squad is probably the strongest individually but we aren’t a good footballing team. We have better players than last year So we are a better team. I don’t think we will get any better as a team under Bruce this is It style wise hopefully we have enough players having runs of form to see us through. Just imagine how good we could be  if our players knew how to attack as a team not just defend as one. 

44 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Sunderland did not “have a go at us”. It was incredibly comfortable, despite a poor performance. 

Because they were low on confidence and with out 7 players? but I don’t think he was just on about this game. It’s what we do. 

12 hours ago, terrytini said:

Another thing.....I don’t think even ardent Wolves fans think they can get even better, whereas pro- Bruce, anti - Bruce, and Bruce neutrals probably ALL agree we certainly CAN.

I also can’t help wondering what a fresh Kodja might do in the last third of the season.....

But can we under Bruce? I don’t think we can. We had a fresh Kodija last year and the football was awful but the results were decent. That’s a all we will get with Bruce. This is as good as it gets.  Let’s hope it’s enough. 

Tonight’s football and result is what we get with Bruce. December is a very tough month and will show if this style is good enough to get us up. One thing for certain is this style means Bruce won’t be here long term. 

Good win Crap game. Our passing and movement is still awful but if we keep grinding it out who cares!! 

3 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Yep - bouncebackability. We've shown it a couple of times this season. 

Moar plz. 

And winning from behind! That’s massive for us