Harry

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WTF

I saw that too and it took them some tome to correct it as well.

in my defense i unknowingly stumbled into it and had me hands full with these delicious pre-mixed rum and cokes i discovered in tescos 8). few punches thrown and loads of mugs shouting zullluuuuuu but not a whole lot else. didnt want to risk some sort of banning order cos the cops were right in there with cameras.

I have to say I never thought I would read the words rum and coke in a thread about football violence or on VT ever for that matter. Personally I would have gone for the premixed G&T

As for the trouble we sit in M5 of the DE and we walked up Witton Lane to get back to our cars. Looked like a lot of handbags to me. The police dived in and broke up whatever minor scuffle was going on. I saw one red smoke bomb thrown probably from the Villa fans congregating around the gates into the carpark. No doubt the helicopter overhead will have recorded everything.

Sorry just realised when Ulver made his post Young may not have been off to Liverpool - apologies!! But I do think the homesick talk was BS and for some reason MON had fallen out with hime

Why do people assume Luke Young's desire to move back to London has just dissappeared ?

The rumour was he was home sick and really wanted to move back to be closer to his family. Can't see how thats changed overnight unless it was just bullshit

I think that was just bullshit. He had been frozen out by MON and wanted out. If he was that homesick for London why was he going to sign for Liverpool in the summer?

Back on topic, I don't think that Lichaj is outstanding but he is a solid player and a good shout as a back up RB to Young. Beye seems to be nowhere near the first team so I think it will be him who is off in January.

Heskey and please lock the thread!

I think the real different between Villa and Spurs is that they can attract a player like RVDV for a paltry £8m and that's where Houllier will be of real value to us.

Added to that he is getting much more out of some of our existing players. Heskey transformed, NRC becoming a pivotal player for us, Downing now delivering, Luke Young reborn and importantly giving the younger players like Albrighton and Bannan real changes.

The comfort I am taking is that we are not pissing away matches or not turning up as we did too many times under MON. Better still these games ahead of the January window are giving GH a real feel for the gaps we have. I fully expect those gaps to be filled, a striker is a massive priority for us given that Carew is just not doing it for us. The good news GH has the draw to get the right sort of player to sign for us. Come the summer it will be au revoir to a whole bunch of overpaid squad players and under performers which just has to be right.

As for today's game its just that Spurs have that little bit more than us at the moment but that will be changing pretty soon. Yes I am that confident.

The reality I suspect is that he will want to play for England at a senior level having played at lower levels. If he was that keen to play for Ireland surely he would have already.

He qualifies for both England and Ireland and can still play for Ireland at a senior level even if he plays U21 for Engand. He could opt to play for Ireland if he feels he will not get a chance for England at a senior level which I think would be the deciding factor.

I have never heard of him being approached by the the FAI unlike Gabby who was named in several 'provisional' Nigerian squads and is actually qualified to play for Nigeria (via his father), Scotland (via his mother) and England (by birth).

I had to give it to Heskey as he scored the winner! Some great performances from everyone on the pitch. As many have noted Cuellar had a good game but so did Collins. NRC is just getting better and better for me. He really gives our midfield some bite.

What's interesting for me is how we are shaping up post MON. We must not forget that MON signed all these players and for me he called far more right in the transfer market than he did wrong. However he failed in many instances to get the best out of his players and although its early days yet that is what the new management team seems to be doing. Its almost like having 4-5 new signings.

The tactics are different in that we play a strong passing game as was shown yesterday. The substitutions are either designed to change a game (Heskey in the CC) or reflect the need to replace a player who has given his all (Petrov yesterday).

Finally and perhaps crucially the players seem much happier. MON did some great things for Villa in his tenure but you do wonder what went on at Bodymoor Heath sometimes.

I don't think we should even be contemplating sending Bannan out on loan, Good on Houllier for saying that he was not prepared to sanction a loan without seeing him in action. Rumour has it that MON told Bannan that he had no future at Villa as he is too small. Well Billy Bremner did OK!

On the subject of loans maybe Salifou and Osbourne could go on loan and we could conveniently forget to ask for them back. Just a thought....

The first half was probably the worst 45 minutes of football I have seen at VP for years. We just sat back and invited pressure. We created next to nothing and barely troubled Blackburn.

The second half started equally as dourly but the revelation was Heskey who was absolutely outstanding - scored one made one. Suddenly we had a focus for the attacks and we looked threatening. Blackburn brought on Samba to nullify Heskey and I think his lack of mobility actually gave Young more freedom.

I would agree Heskey was the MotM but I actually voted for Bannan. He was a little lost in the first half but was, for me, very very good in the second half. I think we may have a real find in him.

Clark looked his usual composed self and Lichaj is developing very well at full back. I also clocked that he has a very long throw, he was comfortably getting it into the 6 yard box.

A few have mentioned Sidwell, the jury is still out for he with him but I think he put in a shift tonight.

Overall very pleased as I think Houllier got something out of the players tonight which I don't think MON would have done

The Star reporting we were booed off. Am I going deaf or something?

There was a little bit of booing, not from me I hasten to add. I think its just the symptom of a very lack lustre performance

There was so many things that KMac did wrong today and it's so frustrating as Bolton were there for the taking if we wanted to.

First of all, why play an obviously injured Dunne? He was shit and always was going to be if he's injured, just rest him and it will not only help him get a rest, but it will mean that the team improves as well. Really not hard.

Dropping NRC? WTF is he thinking?

He was pivotal in all the good things that came out of the Stoke game yet we drop him?

playing Ireland in a 4-4-2.

Not subbing Albrighton or Petrov earlier than he did.

Not make Young target Steinsson, as Steinsson is **** shit!

Get Gabby to roam around the defence so that he's not constantly being man-handled by Knight.

The list could go on and on and it is no coincidence whatsoever that all the games NRC has played, we have either won or had a good performance and all of the games NRC hasn't played, we have either lost or played shit.

Hopefully this will help convince fans that NRC is crucial to Villa. And we also need to play him to convince him to agree to a new contract. We don't want him to leave on a free do we?

I pretty much agree with those sentiments. My overall view of KM is nice bloke but very clearly out of his depth. With MON you always had the impression that he had his tactical view and it was both inflexible and right, at least in his opinion. With KM you get the impression its completely hit and miss. WHU was perfect, yesterday it was utterly wrong.

As a manager you have to decide how to play a side and the tactics you will employ. If that does not work you have to adapt as Bolton clearly did to our game.

I expected big changes from us in the second half but all we got was more of the same and we then had a baffling change of formation when Carew came on - almost on a par with MON.

Given the way Knight was allowed to foul at will I would have (and I don't believe I'm about to say this!) brought on Heskey as well as Carew and gone a straight 4-4-2 giving a big physical presence up front. Gabby would have come off along with Albrighton with Young going out to the right.

Had we not had to substitute Dunne I would have stuck NRC on instead of either Ireland or Petrov. Not pretty but given the way Bolton wanted to play it the best tactics.

OK I'm just another fan who sits in the stands and thinks he knows better. What worried me about KM is that quite a few of us probably do know better!

Their ginger keeper was good. When I saw him in goal, I thought, 'he can't be too clever, Bolton back up and ginger' but he was a pretty solid keeper.

Such a gay hair cut though, if your ginger, just get a skinhead to limit damage.

I could not decide whether their keeper had deliberately chosen a shirt colour to match his ginger locks or whether he had made a dreadful fashion faux pas and they clashed appallingly.

Maybe a poll on VT would be a good idea.......

I think Mike Dean must apply different football rules to normal in matches. Knight looked like a world class defender except his 'defending' consisted of fouling Gabby and the Carew for the entire 90 minutes. He ripped the shirt off Carew's back FFS! But that 'world class' referee Mike (smug bastard) Dean saw nothing wrong. What a tosser.

Mind you we were rubbish anyway. I am so glad that KM is not going to be our manager as he is tactically clueless. I cannot be arsed to go through the whole litany of errors suffice to say he's a nice bloke but utterly out of his depth.

Roll on Monsieur Houllier!!

.. Every appointment is a gamble, there are simply no guarantee's.

quite a lot of criteria has to come together and that is the tricky bit.

I would suggest with his wealth of experience he has as good a chance as any.

Probably the Villa manager with the best cv to date, so i don't know what more we can do.

He just has to get on with it.

Totally agree TRO. Personally I'm also very pleased that we did not simply appoint one of the obvious candidates in a matter of days.

Although many fans, including myself, were initially critical of what seemed to be a drawn out process I think we have made a clever and considered choice.

I see the point JLT is trying to make but I think that Houllier was and hopefully is a far better manager than those he mentioned and crucially I don't think any of them actually won anything. Houllier's CV speaks for itself.

Added to that what he has done in the last three years could be considered to have enhanced his skills and knowledge so we actually have a more complete manager.

Houllier brings two things to the table which sadly MON, good manager though he is, simply does not have:

1) A deep knowledge of European and probably world football together with the necessary contacts.

2) The name. People have heard of Houllier so he has the gravitas and respect to attract the right players and staff. Put simply he is a draw in his own right. MON's draw is strictly UK only.

Totally agree about our ball retention. Quite frankly most of the time watching Villa I'm just resigned to us giving the ball back to the opposition. I'm a bag of nerves watching us and after 65 minutes last night I expected to lose that game.

During O'Neills tenure ( and I'm an MON fan) we have never been able to keep the ball. I sincerely hope that under Houllier this will improve otherwise I will not be watching Villa for much longer. I'll have a heart attack!

You and me both. The scripts of our games always seem to have the same unhappy ending.

OK there were some poor refereeing decisons but ultimately we were masters of our own downfall. We played much the better football in the first haalf and perhaps should have been 2-0 or even 3-0 up. Stoke regrouped at half time and were much better in the seond half. I could always see them getting a goal back. I think a draw was perhaps the fairest result but Stoke did a Stoke and won it at the death.

I'm pleased that KM is not going to be our manager as his tactics of lack of them in the second half were plain for all to see. Heskey was a laughable substitution and smacked of MON at his worst. Personally I would have brought Ireland on to inject some pace and attacking thrust perhaps leaving Gabby on and taking off Young.

I don't think Houllier can start quick enough for us as we need an injection of better tactics and frankly better management. The way we are playing at the moment suggsets to me that we will have a very tricky game against Bolton and anything less than 3 points is simply not good enough. So far we have beaten a very poor WHU and fluked a win against Everton. Beyond that we have either been outsmarted, out played or out thought. Mind you its not all KM's fault, the players have a lot to answer for in how they have performed in the last quarter of our games so far.

Whilst this season is far from a write off just yet we are rapidly becoming a laughing stock at least in my eyes.

This evening's game proved to me that we need Houllier at VP right now. Very good in the first half but utterly outsmarted in the second half. KM was seemingly incapable of reacting to what was happening on the pitch, not something I would expect from Houllier. I have to say that I am extremely disappointed that he is still fannying around with the FFF.

this is a black day in the history of aston villa football club. I've never ever been this deflated in my entire life. we've really been sold down the river. I stayed in bed all day with the covers over my head praying hard that someone of hiddinks class would come. I'm staying in bed all day tomorrow. 3 year contract? that means competing for honours is 8 years away. a disgusting appointment.

I can't tell whether you're joking or not.

I wondered that but came to the conclusion that it was a serious post - worryingly.

this is a black day in the history of aston villa football club. I've never ever been this deflated in my entire life. we've really been sold down the river. I stayed in bed all day with the covers over my head praying hard that someone of hiddinks class would come. I'm staying in bed all day tomorrow. 3 year contract? that means competing for honours is 8 years away. a disgusting appointment.

Are you completely bonkers?

Really chuffed with the appointment. We now have a manager with the clout to attract foreign players. He is someone with extensive contacts in European and probably world football too. He has a track record of developing young players. Best of all he has achieved at the highest level. I don't think we could have asked for more. I would note that addresses pretty much all the usual criticisms of MON.

Lets not forget we have the makings of a very good side. What we have lacked is a couple of really classy players which if signed now I suspect we be quality foreign imports. The core of the squad will probably remain British which is good and I suspect some of the good young players we have coming through our ranks will actually get a chance something MON often promised but rarely delivered.

628 pages? Please lets just appoint Houllier with KM or Concorde Nose as his assistant before VT overheats and explodes.

Am surprised by some of the more extreme anti Houllier feelings by some on this site, given both the timing and the availability of quality managers out there. Like many, I had "hoped" for Moyes or Jol and dreaded the idea of Bradley or Curbishley. Remember last week after MOTD2 when some were genuinely fearful it was going to be Phil Brown??!!

Having reflected on the likely outcome of Houllier, with or without Thompson who I don't feel strongly about either way, I honestly think it's as good an outcome as we could have expected. Despite the fan popularity of Jol or Moyes, let's remember that it is Houllier that has won trophies in England.

Whether we get an experienced, inexperienced, successful or trophy-less manager, there is no guarantee how it will work out at Villa. I remember being underwhelmed when we appointed Gregory, but he turned out ok for us, even though he was a disaster after he left. Remember when Ramos was appointed for Spurs on the back of a fantastic Spanish track record? He was poor for them.

My point is that none of us know how this will pan out, so the least we can and should do is to get right behind the whole team from board to management to players.

Precisely! GH with or without Beaky is a proven manager and has a proven track record in England, better than just the 'Premier League Experience' the club sought. Rather than rubbishing him before he has even started I think we should get behind him.

Just a thought......

A couple of points:

I think all this talk of a 'player revolt' in the media (well all three of them!) is typical media bollox. With regard to Warnock and Freidal this happened a minimum of 6 years ago and we nor the media know anything about the circumstances. Just a suggestion but Warnock was at the start of his career and it may have been thought good for him to get games under his belt on loan. Just like Gabby, Bannon, Cahill, etc at Villa.

As for Carew, again we know none of the background. Carew may not have been happy at Lyon for a variety of reason assuming he was unhappy. Houllier may have just wanted Baros and Carew was who Villa asked for in return. A good call by MON?Again its all speculation.

Secondly it appears possible based on the oh so reliable media that Houllier may be our next manager possibly in conjunction with KM and already the knives are out! We would be appointing a proven foreign coach who no doubt has connections and the kudos to attract very good foreign players. These were things that MON lacked and boy did fans moan about that! Possibly then throw KM into the mix who clearly has the respect and trust of the player and the club and maybe just maybe we have a winning combination?

Given the care the club is taking over the appointment I think we should trust the process and avoid knee jerk reactions.

Hi General:

"Do you think the Board of Aston Villa bear some responsibility for the manner and timing of Martin O"Neill's departure?"

I've posted this here following your response to my post on one of the Front Page threads and my subsequent response.