P3te

And neither is this line " If Bill Gates comes in and buys the club he can put precisely the same amount as Randy would in"

 

Incredibly rich owners an spent what they like

 

If they can afford the fine

If they can "generate income from revenue streams" a la some new sponsorship from say oh i dont know IBM.

 

Not saying we are getting Bill gates or anything just saying there are ways around FFP.  We have a very rich owner,  he's just not rich enough.

Points deductions for domestic breaches, fines haven't actually been confirmed yet.

On your other point, you seem to ignore the fact that I mentioned the increase in commercial revenue, "until other expenses are further cut and/or significantly more commercial revenue is generated by the club". Would a mega rich owner be able to do that? They might, but they HAVE to do it to spend more. If we get one and they can then fantastic, but I'm not sure it'll be quite as easy as you do. That's why Fox is here

 

 

P3te - still waiting for a response.

Sorry, I don't have a list of former players turned coaches and their playing deal expiration dates, strangely enough. But plenty of players have retired before their deals expired and moved into coaching

 

 

You can't name one but there are plenty?

Come off it.

 

go do your own research if it bothers you that much

 

And it now seems that FFP has given this awful owner an nice excuse to hide behind for some fans. 

FFP affects nothing in the past, only in the present and future. If Bill Gates comes in and buys the club he can put precisely the same amount as Randy would in. In your blind rage against Lerner you seem to forget that a new owner cannot come in and put money into the playing staff beyond the amount Randy has been until other expenses are further cut and/or significantly more commercial revenue is generated by the club.

To that end, we hired Tom Fox last season, which was a very good move. Should something similar have happened 9 years ago? Absolutely. Did it? No. What can we do about that now? Absolutely nothing. Swapping Lerner out with anyone else will not make a blind bit of difference regarding how much we spend, in fact, any new owner that comes in won't put anywhere near the money Lerner did into the club. They might well spend less better, however, but I'm getting incredibly frustrated by the amount of people who think "new owner, we'll spend money" or "we're not spending because Lerner is a tight sod".

Neither of those things are true.

 

Probably the wrong thread for this but what do people make of Sunderland's supposed £50m warchest? How is it that they can afford to spend that amount and we can't?

It seems we're the only team in the league effected by FFP rules.

 

Everyone is affected by it, however Sunderland's cumulative losses in the last 3 years have been 62m. Remember, we made a 52m loss in just ONE of those seasons, never mind totting up the others

lets hope the new TV money goes on doubling the kind of money Randy has made available the last few years. Possibly not unrealistic but who knows.

We don't get any money from the new deal til summer 2017, since it doesn't start til the 2016/17 season

P3te - still waiting for a response.

Sorry, I don't have a list of former players turned coaches and their playing deal expiration dates, strangely enough. But plenty of players have retired before their deals expired and moved into coaching

Ladies and Gentlemen if Randy Lerner scrapes the copper pot this window this club is finished in the top flight

I'm pretty sure ffp has been explained to you on multiple treads over the last few months and you still keep banging that drum...

Our spending over the last couple of seasons fulls comfortably within FFP.

Apart from the £100m+ losses in the 3 years were only allowed to lose £105m you mean?

Ladies and Gentlemen if Randy Lerner scrapes the copper pot this window this club is finished in the top flight

I'm pretty sure ffp has been explained to you on multiple treads over the last few months and you still keep banging that drum...

That's being stopped

I think it's all of the above, but I'd hope it's a thing of the past now that we've got a manager who will actually play attacking football. We'll get some hammerings along the way, but I reckon we'll win a few handsomely too

 

 

Do I need to know the story of 1,2 and 3 for 4 to make sense?

 

Unlikely

did you know, that barring the sunderland game, we failed to beat any other team in the league by more than a one goal margain?

 

And we've only managed that feat 10 times in the last 114 league games

1. UEFA FFP is irrelevant if you are not in Europe so it doesn't affect us at all. We can spend all the money we like to get the team into a situation where we are stable as a top 6 club. If we couldn't enter the Europa league because we violated FFP that would just be a bonus. The premier league FFP rules are unknown to me but Man City haven't received any sanctions and neither would any club on a spending spree.

2. There are also ways around it through "clever" sponsorship deals etc.

3. Platini has already confirmed that the FFP rules are going to be relaxed/abandoned. (My guess is that UEFA have realised that the rules are against EU competition law. There are a number of pending court cases)

4. Clubs like Man City and PSG are violating FFP, they are still in the champions league, still winning trophies and they just pay the fine with their vast, vast wealth. No big deal. 

 

Lerner could put in as much money as he likes, he just doesn't want to. The FFP/balance the books/sound financial footing/ excuse is just an excuse for owners to run clubs at a profit and keep the profit for themselves. If you want a club to win things you have to be a huge club like Man U or Barca or else run it at a loss like PSG/Man City. There's a glass ceiling in the premier league and clubs like Liverpool and Spurs keep smashing into it because they aren't quite rich enough. Then there's a few well run clubs that sit comfortably in midtable and then there are some badly run clubs and smaller clubs who battle relegation every season.

 

We can aim to be a well run mid-table club like Swansea or Stoke but that's it. That's our ceiling without a sugar daddy. Football as a competitive sport is broken. It is now a predictable monopoly/cartel at the top end.

 

1. Not talking about UEFA FFP, I'm talking about domestic Premier League FFP, the rules of which are known already if you bother looking, and we're at the bottom end of it, pretty much only able to spend what we make for the next year.

2. The same kind of sponsorship deals that got PSG and City hammered with sanctions in Europe? They won't work domestically. However clever deals in terms of good, solid commercial arrangements WILL work, and that's why we need someone like Fox who has done that for a living.

3. Platini is talking about UEFA FFP not Premier League FFP, they're completely different things

4. Again, you're talking about UEFA FFP

The sugar daddy concept no longer exists

the bottom line is that the only way we'll ever get to compete at the top end of the table is with a lot of outside investment from a rich backer.

Have you missed the whole ffp thing that prevents the owner from putting money in, no matter how rich he is, due to our previous losses?

Lerner can't put money in. A new owner can't put money in. we need to generate money independently of ownership to spend

You'd be surprised. If he has managerial aspirations he might well be convinced to retire and take up a coaching position

Only ever played 5 hours of Fallout (3) but that trailer was awesome.

Need to blast through 3 and maybe NV before this comes out. When's the release date/year?

You can't really "blast" through the games. I'd probably avoid playing Fallout 3, New Vegas or Skyrim (which is basically Fallout with trees) ahead of Fallout 4 just incase you get your fill of the genre five minutes before the game is out.

As for when it gets released? I'd imagine they announce Q3 2016.

October this year I'm hearing

the probability that Fox and Sherwood get axed?

That wouldn't be a bad thing in my eyes.

Money is what we need, and lots of it

We need lots of money so we get rid of a guy with a proven track record of making football clubs lots of money?

I think he means a contract on a coach's salary, which would be ten times less than his current wage

Yep, I understood what he meant. I stand by what I said, though.

So instead of paying him a fraction of what we would for the next 12 months, you'd rather pay him the full whack because you think we've paid him too much money? Ooookaaay

If we were cancelling their contract without knowing they had other employment then I'd agree, we'd need to pay a settlement amount equal to (or close enough to) their wages for the length their contract has left. But I don't think that's the case when everyone has agreed for the player to join another club on another contract.

Mayby, I'm under the impression if a player is sold without asking to be sold they are entitled to the balance left owing unless they agree to waive that money or negotiate a fee (which happens more often than not I believe)

Not correct, its usually a percentage of the sale fee if they didn't request a move. And if they're being offered less money elsewhere they can refuse to move unless the selling club pays the difference for the amount of time left to run on their deal at the time of sale (hence city paying wages of players who had left, as Leeds did previously)

I think we'll be very comfortable next season tbh

1. Guzan- KEEP (starter)

2. Baker - KEEP (starter)

4. Vlaar - KEEP (squad)

5. Okore - KEEP (starter)

6. Clark- KEEP (starter)

7. Bacuna - KEEP (squad)

9. Sinclair - KEEP (starter)

10. Weimann - KEEP (squad)

11. Agbonlahor - SELL

12. Cole - RELEASE

13. Steer - SELL

14. Senderos - KEEP (squad - pending other signings)

15. Westwood - KEEP (starter)

16. Delph - KEEP (starter)

18. Richardson - SELL

20. Benteke - SELL (if keeping isn't an option, obviously)

21. Hutton - KEEP (squad)

22. Gardner - KEEP (squad)

23. Cissokho - KEEP (squad)

24. Sanchez - KEEP (squad)

25. Gil - KEEP (squad)

27. Kozak - KEEP (starter)

28. N'Zogbia - SELL

29. Hepburn-Murphy - LOAN

31. Given - RELEASE

34. Lowton - SELL

39. Calder - LOAN

40. Grealish - KEEP (starter)

Guzan

RB Okore/Baker Clark/Baker Cissokho

Westwood

Delph CM

Grealish/Gil Sinclair/Gil

Kozak

We won't get Robinson on loan

Won't get him on loan? We OWN him

He's the very definition of a luxury player. Even if we wanted to we haven't got a team to make use of him properly

Berbatov?!?!

With Vlaar and Cleverley looking likely to be going elsewhere I genuinely think we need to spend 10/15m just to stand still and double that if we want to start pushing up the league. Sadly Lerner will give nowhere near the required amount and that could result in a disaster next season. Wouldn't even be surprised if Tim walked after finding out how much Lerner is willing to spend (presuming It will be 5-10m like usual).

Lerner has no say in how much we have to spend