Pez1974

We really do know how to conduct our business, don't we.

Welcome Carlos (he's says, thinking this guy will be straight onto VT to check out his welcomes!)

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Player development relies on having players around who have been there done it got the tea shirt.......SG can't be on hand for everyone.....learning is contagious and players like Suarez can be influential, to have around.

Suarez for 12 months, would be invaluable imo......I don't see him playing every game, but to be used sparingly at crucial times.....I see his presence having a real value on our squad and younger players learning from him.

We have no mentor, for the strikers to learn from, but I will go with the clubs decision.

I am going round in circles on this one - and of course it depends on which Luis Suarez comes.

If he could do a job - start a few, and be a sub (5 subs next year?) for the season - he could be amazing.
But would he want that? And the wages mentioned (£150k a week?) for the kind of minutes we've seen from Young this season, sounds like a lot. 

Plus...we have Watkins and Ings; we need to let Archer develop (again - is Suarez great for this, or a hinderance?). And then there's Keinan Davis who Gerrard seems to keep saying is a key squad member (personally, I think he's going to Forest in the summer, hopefully for a good wedge as they've been promoted).
I think for Suarez to come in - one of Watkins or Ings may have to leave. We usually play 1 up top, and we'd have 5 people vying for that spot unless we sell. 

I trust the recruitment team - and I'm glad I do as I have no idea what to make of this one. 

Genuinely credible reports of both Tarkowski and Carlos. Are we playing one against the other? Are we trying to sign both? Or is it all just BS?

If we sign one - I reckon that's Hause out the door,. If two - does this mean Mings is likely to go, as Konsa is injured, and Chambers just arrived and has versatility?

If Mings is likely to go, I would have expected to hear whispers as clubs would have to be asking by now?

Quite good fun to watch really!

(Bassey too - but I think that's a LB cover, with versatility, rather than a third.)

1 hour ago, duke313 said:

All cherry picked examples to prove your point.  I didn't say Carlos was better than Tarkowski or Tarkowski was better than Carlos, just that people are going to gravitate towards the player who's playing at a higher level

There's plenty of others.
What I was genuinely asking was if he is better or not, given the huge likely differential in cost? I don't know. Seems you don't either (fine, of course).
And yes, people gravitate to certain things perceived as being better - but reality is sometimes/often different. Which is why I think a few people on here are asking for a genuinely opinion?

2 minutes ago, duke313 said:

Because Carlos plays regularly in the CL/Europa and Tarkowski has just been relegated with Burnley?

Djimi Traore has won the Champions League. Within a couple of years he was on loan at SHA.
Milan Baros ended up here. 
They had Igor Biscan on the bench.

Andy Robertson got relegated with Hull (I know, I know - Harry Maguire)

La Liga is a very different league - is the extra money (which would be £10s of millions) really be worth the difference in a player that's the same age? 
Or is a proven PL player the better option, given the likely savings? (And I accept that PL proven isn't everything, but it is something)

(Genuine question)
 

Good player. Terrible record with injuries.

This is the sort of deal that Liverpool manage to achieve - flogging a player for way over the odds. (Wilson, Ward, Solanke, Brewster). 

No thank you.

2 hours ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

Well we have so far spent 17m of our summer transfer budget, there would be significant funds you would think given we were rumoured to be looking to spend 150m+ after sales this summer. 

 

I don't think it's stupid to target a younger CB and pay a bigger fee and the wages, because that player would have resale value. If we were to offer Tarkowski a 5-year contract on those wages we would not be able to shift him if he declines to the extent that he's an expensive benchwarmer. If the club can afford to do it without getting into financial difficulties then fine, it's not my money, but I'd be very sceptical it wouldn't hurt us somewhere down the line.

 

I remember under O'Neill we made similar transfers like these, and we massively suffered the consequences afterwards (e.g. Richard Dunne who was on ridiculous wages and who had one good first season with us then turned into an absolute liability). I don't think these owners are likely to lose interest like Lerner, but you don't know what can happen in future and the extent of our decline 12 years ago still gives me nightmares. 

 

I might be wrong and Tarkowski could turn out to be a masterstroke of a signing, but I was hoping we'd go for a CB that significantly improves us and I don't think he does that. Therefore, I hope Everton or Newcastle throw silly wages at him instead of us. 

I don't know why we can't do both?

I love Mings, but he is far from perfect. Chambers has done fine; Konsa has gone backwards this season, and Hause is either injured or a permanent sub. We need better in the CB position, and Tarkowski is that. Not perfect but better.
And in Hause (perhaps as high as £10m), Konsa (once recovered - £20m?) and perhaps Mings (£25m? £30m?) - we have players who we could sell on for the decent fees I've indicated. And remember - the fees being commanded and mad right now - so why can't they be a bit mad for our players? 

We also have 3x lads in the U23s who the club have high hopes for, so it's important.

Free transfers are brilliant when building a squad. Chambers came in, contributed well and gives us options. For nothing other than the wages Tuanzebe was on (there abouts). 

2 hours ago, zak said:

Not specifically directed at you but i find it strange that people think getting a player on a free is that much better than on a transfer.

The Agent of that player will know what his player is roughly worth and charge that in a signing on bonus because that's what teams would be willing to pay to get that player.

 

Appreciate that, and this is only theoretical.

TransferMarkt.com has his current value at £20m. We can argue, but they are an independent source, so it isn't all BS. As a salary, that's about £80k a week over 5 years, before adding agents fees etc.
Sportrac.com list his current salary at £2.6m a year - so about £50k a week. Again, they may not be right, but it sounds about right to me

I think anything up to around £80k a week (all in, including bonuses) is OK for me - we'd still a lot better off over 5 years (about £13m) than buying him at those figures.
I don't think we'd pay him much more than that - and we shouldn't. I also don't buy the random figures punted out by the media. 

I agree it's not 'free' as the player takes extra (and agent), but it's rarely the Mbappe scenario where he basically takes the transfer fee for himself. 

I'm sure there are 'better' options than this guy for that position, but the key for me is getting the balance of the transfer window right - and free transfers help massively with that. We can't have a top level player in every position (well, not for a few years).

If Tarkowski joined on a free, and it means that we could (for example) sell on Hause for £10m, then the net spend difference with this approach compared to (say) Botman is maybe £50m - which we can put towards another position - which might be the Konsa replacement. If this means we have Chambers and Tarkowski as our back-ups - that sounds a lot better than Axel and Hause, as these 2 would genuinely push for a starting position. 
Plus we have Bogarde, Swinkels and Feeney coming through, and if they are as highly thought of as rumours say, then someone at 29, and on a free, might be the perfect bridge for them - and the club saves a fortune. 
At some point very soon, we have to start balancing FFP the right way, rather than being on the edge all the time.

If we can get this - it's a no-brainer for me.

At worst....he comes for free on (say) £100k a week. Over 4 years, about £20m.
We can sell Hause - maybe get £10m for him, and save his wages. Even if Tarkowski is 3rd/4th choice, we have better depth, and probably save money over the next 4 years. 

If he would come for a role whereby he has to fight for his place - that's up to him. 

1 hour ago, maqroll said:

Purslow loves these perfectly timed announcements, doesn't he? Can't say I mind! First day of the off-season and he drops an atomic bomb. A real statement of intent. I'm salivating at who joins us next...

It's great for us fans - but perhaps more importantly, having Coutinho and Kamara already on board (and Digne from January) - there is a clear message to other targets.
Rather than the project 'powerpoint' (as someone brilliantly described it), we can now point at the players we have - much more real and exciting for anyone.

With all this competent, early doing business - deadline day is going to be a massive let down. Again. Lange out. 

42 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

By sounds of it, we want to get one free transfer in so the funds can be used for the other roles. Which makes a lot of sense.

I think we've Suarez, Kamara and Tarkowski. It's also why we went after Ginter too. 

We'll then have our list of players for those positions who are under contract too and if we fail to land the position on a free we'll pursue the list

 

I think we'll be looking at more than one - Chambers has come in for nothing, and given us a good option at the back, and a passible DCM for games against the lower teams.

Imagine if we could get Tarkowski and Kamara on frees, maybe even Suarez as a reserve (personally, I'm a long way from convinced about the last one). We could sell Hause and maybe Sanson - bring in £10m-£20m in fees, save some wages, which could fund their wages for their whole contract, whilst strengthening the squad. Literally - free upgrades!

Signs of a well run club is being able to pick up the bargains. As many Citeh fans pointed out - they bought Grealish (or maybe should've bought Kane) for less than they'd made on selling academy players over the past 2 or 3 years.

1 hour ago, Delphinho123 said:

Finishing 14th won’t help with negotiations. 

Absolutely. The last couple of games (plus some obvious outliers this season - Watford twice!) have cost us a a easy top 10 finish. 
We've got Gerrard, Coutinho and a few others who will help attract players - but the 14th hurts.

1 minute ago, paul514 said:

NO!

Legs are gone, he isn't the same player as a couple of years ago.

Fair enough.
Haven't watch the Bundesliga, but he played a lot of games this year. 

Axel Witsel available on a free?
Just turned 33, but may have another couple of years in him at DCM - especially if he could be rotated. And he'd bring experience into that centre midfield, that I feel we really lack.

He'd be an upgrade on Marvellous, who we could sell and make it a cash positive deal - and it'd buy time for Big Tim to develop another year or 2. (We'd still need another DCM).

Just a thought.

11 hours ago, The Fun Factory said:

Sad news. I think Gordon Cowans is also suffering too. 

11 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

I don't even remember Sid heading a ball. Very strange.

Sid has got Alzheimer's. 

Alzheimer's is a disease - don't imagine it has got anything to do with football.
Dementia is a condition, which can be caused by head trauma. It breaks my heart to see my Dad suffering through it, and the effects it's having on my mom and the rest of the family.

Both are **** horrible.
Sending love to both players and families, and to all those dealing with this.

1 minute ago, duke313 said:

I’d give him a start against Palace, drop McGinn. 

IF he signs, he can have Palace and City for me. 

Awesome.

And to those doubters of "we can't afford £33m" - we didn't need to. 
This is how a good club is run. And taking advantage of poor Barcelona and their FFP problems 

He's been in the official pics a lot this last week, and the sub against Liverpool - something seems to be in the offering, whether we're trying to tempt him, or we're building up to it.

9 hours ago, Rustibrooks said:

If it came down to Mcginn vs Dougie who would you guys rather sell?

9 hours ago, MrBlack said:

McGinn. We'd get more money for him and think he has reached his peak.

What Mr Black said - providing Dougie signs a new deal.

Dougie is 3.5 years younger, and I suspect he has a high ceiling.
McGinn probably has reached him peak. His engine is incredible, and I wonder if that costs him technically. 
McGinn also probably has a much higher market value right now (£50m vs £30m - if Dougie signs?) - so we would have the extra money to improve the squad.

Would McGinn be happy as a squad player if performances merited that? I'd love to keep them both, but his value right now means selling might be a great move.
Love the guy though - mad bastard.

Like others - good at breaking up play, and then giving it back to them in as dangerous position as he'd just covered.

Not sure if this was just him being a bit rusty, but his passing has never been good. I suspect he might get one more season, before we are past the level where he can be useful. 

Him coming off didn't surprise me - but why not Chambers or Tim? Changed our shape and stifled Luiz who was doing great up to that point.

€15-20m is great - if true, and it happens

Reports that we weren't prepared to pay £33m - and of course the mass meltdown - might actually be that we felt we could negotiate a more favourable price. That's good business.
There were reports that Barca needed the deal done quickly (can't remember if it was to buy another player, or to comply with Spanish league restrictions) but if we've used that to our advantage, that's great. 

Like many others - Sign....IF the financials work.

He would be the sort of statement signing we need; he's had half a season to bed in, and on his day is quality.

But not at any price.

Howe refusing to comment on a permanent deal, it seems.

No panic though - 'no comment' isn't a bad thing, and if I was Howe I'd be waiting to see if a better player was available, or keep Villa in suspense so we don't say £30m! Although Newcastle fans seem to really like him.

I reckon he's gone from here in any event, and Young will get a new deal with Chisrene in reserve (I think he needs a loan next season).

And the loan to a club doing well whilst he's been there, with an improved defence will have do a lot more for his transfer value than him sitting on our bench for a few months (we didn't know Digne would be injured)