Cizzler

5 minutes ago, duke313 said:

Then we will likely get a % of that sale through a sell on clause 

And if he’s an excellent English CM being good enough to start for Champions League clubs, then getting £14m and a % sell-on for a player that we’ve grown through our academy is a terrible deal.

It’s not like we can just sign players like that off the street.

1 minute ago, duke313 said:

No idea. Will have to wait to see if they reveal any details about the clause

And that’s kind of my point. There’s a lot of people with blind faith in the management at this club (which I don’t think is totally misplaced - it’s the most competent bunch in decades).

However, no one knows the details of the “buy-back” yet and there is clearly some risk it could end up stinging us.

2 minutes ago, lexicon said:

I don't understand the catastrophising at all here. If we want to sign him back because he's proven he's good enough, we will. There's nothing that can be regretted.

My personal “catostrophising” is because there is no guarantee of this.

If he’s really good (which a lot of people think he might be) - why can’t he just sign for Liverpool/ Man U, etc. after he smashes it at Burnley?

Just now, duke313 said:

City’s buy back clause for Lavia doesn’t become effective until summer 2024

When is ours on Ramsey effective from?

2 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

We're selling a player who didn't make a single senior start for us and played just 27 minutes for Aston Villa for £14. It's the kind of thing that we wonder how in the world teams like City or Liverpool do it.

Is it though?

A.Ramsey was excellent for Boro last season (top 6 in the Championship) and instrumental in the England u19 Euros win.

City have just sold a keeper who was playing for Bolton (in League One) for £20m+.

Rhian Brewster went for £24m. Neco Williams went for £20m. Solanke went for £20m in 2019 (with only a loan in the Eredivise).

I think £14m is cheap - but again, if the buy-back is concrete, perhaps there was leeway in the fee. You’d hope so anyway.

Without knowing the full details behind the buy-back, it’s difficult to pass a fair judgement.

Seems like a desperate sale to meet FFP - but maybe the club just don’t rate him, if so fair enough.

This is very different to a loan - and people arguing otherwise need a reality check. Loans to PL clubs are still very much an option (Kabore -> Luton, Colwill -> Brighton, [heavily rumoured] Lewis Hall -> Crystal Palace)

I’ve never seen a buy-back work in the PL. Fair enough if City didn’t rate Douglas Luiz at the time - but if a buy-back is so simple, why aren’t they in for Lavia (especially if Liverpool are sniffing around)?

Ramsey has such a great family story at the club. It’s a shame. Another of our most promising players from our FA Youth Cup win out the door… 

Irrelevant to the pros and cons of this deal in a vacuum - but there’s ultimately zero point in following the players journey through the Academy thread or Loan thread, if there is not a path to the first team.

Is A.Ramsey truly worse than Traore? Or even Countinho or Bailey based on last year’s showing. I’m not sure.

I feel like we will regret this one.

On 28/07/2023 at 12:50, Zatman said:

Worst thing for Barry career was scoring that goal vs Liverpool. It has lead to very unrealistic expectations

Nonsense. He'd come from Barcelona and cost almost £1m at 17. He was part of our FA Youth Cup winning team. There was a boatload of hype which preceded the goal.

I'm not writing him off - he's only 20 after all - but last season wasn't great for him (2 goals in 19 games in League 2, 1 goal in 22 games in League 1). Jacob Ramsey was already playing PL football at his age. Diaby was starting in the Bundesliga. The way his career his panning out it's looking more likely that goal will be the best thing he ever does. 

12 hours ago, StewieGriffin said:

His brother, Diaby, Buendia, Bailey, Coutinho, Philogene all (or possibly could) play in that left AM role and would play there ahead of him, even if one or two of them would be out of position.

He’s not restricted to solely playing the left AM role in my opinion. I think he can play LM, RM and CM.

I imagine J. Ramsey, Diaby + McGinn are first choice.

Then Buendia, Coutinho, Bailey and JPB are back-up. I’m genuinely not inspired by this group. He might not be better than any of them this season - but it’s not far fetched to think he could be better than all of them in 24/25 or 26/27.

As I said before, if it’s a buy-back clause with a pre-agreed contract - fine. If it’s not, it does seem short-sighted.

33 minutes ago, StewieGriffin said:

has 3 or 4 quality players ahead of him

Does he? Who?

I’d be more on board if there was an agreed buy-back price and a pre-agreed contract - however, I can’t remember seeing that ever exercised in the PL.

12 minutes ago, villa89 said:

Yeah, it's like last year when we sold chuck to Chelsea for £20m and he tore up the league and got on the team of the season...

I mean, he wouldn’t sign a new contract so I understood why the club cashed in on Chukwuemeka - I feel like the two deals are different, so don’t really get the comment.

Regardless, Chukwuemeka was 19 last year. Not sure anyone really expected him to “tear up the league”. He still made 14 Premier League appearances. 

He has a huge potential, and I think most people who’ve decided otherwise are likely quite bitter about the manner of his departure. Not sure there’s anyone in the Villa academy with his ceiling.

Selling one of our best youth prospects for £12m… Stinks if true. Reminds of the Cahill to Bolton deal tbh.

9 hours ago, TRO said:

Looks better than Chuk to me.

That's quite a statement. 

Didn't watch the game yesterday - so fair enough if true, but I always thought Carney was class. After that cameo he had off the bench against Spurs, you could tell he was going places. 

I think it's a real shame he left when he did. I think he'd be very close to starting in the LM position in this team currently.

17 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

But we can do stats all day, it’s whether you think your affairs are better dealt with by yourself, or by someone else. 

It’s a positive thing, making your own decisions, not a negative.

I guess this is what I’m unsure about.

Why is the U.K. “someone else”, when Wales is a member of the union.

Why is average public spend p/person higher in Scotland/Wales/N.Ire if Westminster is making decisions solely for the benefit of England?

You made a point earlier that England must be exploiting Wales to Wales’ adversity, as why else would they want to keep it. But why is it zero-sum? Why can’t it be that both regions are better off together in the Union and will both be negatively affected if it split?

If Wales did split, I really don’t understand what the monetary policy would be? What currency would they have?

How would they address the current fiscal deficit? Tax revenue p/person is currently 76%, but public spending p/person is 108% - clearly it would be difficult to maintain the current level of public spending in Wales based on current tax receipts?

Wales would suddenly have to also pay for their own Defence, their own HMRC/civil service, etc, etc. Costs which there are significant benefits from splitting over a wider population.

Clearly there’s anger at the status quo. There’s a general malaise across the entirety of the U.K. at the moment in my opinion. I just wonder if there are better solutions than separation. 

42 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Whether you want to be part of the EU, and whether the EU would want Walesa as part of it is getting in to a level of detail of personal preference. I think many people have realised over the last few years that the freedom of Brexit has meant, we still have to comply with EU regs to sell to the EU. Where we now try to sell to other regions, we have to comply with their rules and regulations. So the myth of this brexit autonomy and self governance has been exposed. Someone somewhere will set your trading rules, your financial credibility on the open market. The UK is free of Brussels, but still ‘governed’ by all those international standard for trade and finance and credit.

I think EU membership is a given surely - as what other currency would be an option? There is a lot more than just the international trading rules to consider, if the EU would be setting Welsh monetary policy. 

52 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Wales exports water to England. The funny thing being, we are not currently able to charge for it, in fact quite the opposite, we pay for the infrastructure in Wales that exports water we don’t get an income for. I guess if England wanted to, they could flood Yorkshire and Lancashire valleys but you’d have to ask why they don’t consider that an option at present? 

I'd presume (with no knowledge) as the land is cheaper in Wales and it's geographically closer to London/South East. What do you mean by the Welsh pay? Aren't both English and Welsh water companies privatised anyway?

55 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

The ONS will show you poverty levels in Wales, off the top of my head, 25% of Welsh kids are defined as in poverty by the ONS. Hundreds of years of natural resource of coal wealth, slate wealth, stone wealth, shipping and docking, water, wool, energy and yet 25% of kids are in poverty. Something has been terribly mis managed there.

I'm not saying there hasn't been incredible mismanagement over the years - but public spending per head in Wales is 13% above UK average (£13.4k p/person) - would an independent Welsh government actually be able to spend more than that? 

57 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Yes, brexit was toxic, why would a split need to be the same? Surely Westminster will have learned its lesson? Or do you think Westminster could act in bad faith out of spite? Would that be a good reason to stay?

I wasn't really talking about Westminster. More how toxic Brexit was across the population, families and friends disagreeing, etc. It's an impossible debate. No one can agree on a definable metric for success.

1 hour ago, chrisp65 said:

What’s happened to Ireland since it left the UK? Its geographically removed from the rest of Europe, it had been ‘reliant’ on rule from London, it had no great infrastructure, didn’t have its own currency or central bank, its exports were either to England or for the benefit of England. You look at those circumstances, they’d be crazy to try and go it alone. When they split, the Welsh economy was greater than the Irish. Now, independent, the Irish economy dwarfs the Welsh one. 

 I don't think it's fair to use GDP when looking at the Irish economy as it is hugely skewed by American multinationals declaring their profits in Ireland.

1 hour ago, chrisp65 said:

Oh, and you’re not alone because you’re not governed from London. 

So is the preference to be governed by Brussels instead?

To be honest, I’d welcome the dissertation. I’m not well-versed I’m this area at all and interested to hear why Wales “can’t afford not to be independent”

Not being confrontational, just interested.

Who does Wales export electricity and water to? England? If so, is that really an export? Surely the infrastructure has just been created in a way to service the entire country cost effectively (who funded the investment for the wind farms, etc). If Wales did secede, why would England continue to import water / electicity from Wales? Why wouldn’t they just build more of their own wind farms? Build their own reservoirs? Is it geographically impossible?

Is any of the access to renewables actually unique to Wales?

I agree there are ports, cities and universities in Wales… but there are in almost every country in the world. It’s not like the ports are in key trading locations, or the cities are tourism hot-spots or the universities consistently amongst the world’s best.

By what metric is Wales one of the poorest regions in Europe?

Brexit was so incredibly toxic and divisive, splitting from the Union would be on another level. 

On 19/07/2023 at 22:33, chrisp65 said:

Notably, majorities of those aged 18 to 24 (53%) and 25 to 34 (52%) would vote ‘yes’ to independence, while majorities of those aged 35 to 44 (55%), 45 to 54 (66%), 55 to 64 (55%), and 65+ (70%) would vote ‘no’ in such a referendum. 

What's the rationale/reasons why they want to leave? Do they believe they'd have a better quality of life outside of the Union?

I sort of get some of the Scottish independence argument - if they truly believe England is a resource-drain, harvesting Scotland's national resources (i.e. oil) with Scotland not seeing any benefit back. Not saying I subscribe to the view - but I can understand the thought process.

Both my parents are Welsh - so despite growing up in England, I've always considered myself 'British'. Welsh independence is a bit strange to me. It's a tiny country with minimal resources, really hard to see how they'd benefit from being alone.

7 hours ago, Rich192 said:

One thing to consider is keeping him around for one more season qualifies him as club homegrown, whereas if we keep loaning him out until he’s 21 then he’ll only be association homegrown. I’d keep him around, and he may even get the chance to get some Conference League minutes. 

Hasn't gone to the USA, right? Looks like he's miles away from the first team (not a criticism, he's 18!).

I would be shocked if he plays for our first team this year. CB is our strongest depth after the Torres signing. Four really good CBs - and we still have Chambers (and Revan, who looks to be considered next in the pecking order - as he gone to the USA).

16 hours ago, Kuwabatake Sanjuro said:

Bold move from them going all white without their European football. I'm sure Nike never considered the possibility.

Why?

12 hours ago, alreadyexists said:

Well chuffed for him! That goal against WBA in the play off semi means he has the key to the city as far as I’m concerned! 

Loved his goal in the home games vs. Blues in 2018 too.

37 minutes ago, Zatman said:

I do wonder if teams will cop on and think some people just fit the Brighton setup. Trossard, Potter, Bissouma, Cucarella and White havent shined elsewhere. I think Caicedo is going to make somebody look fooliah this summer for fee they will get

He’s been one of the best defenders for the team that finished second in the league.

Be foolish to write him off. At the same age, Cameron Archer was playing non-league (and hardly setting the world alight - with 4 goals in 26 games).

On the other hand, clearly Barry has a massive way to go before he’s even close to our first team squad. Next year is massive for him.

GK: Martinez, Olsen

RB: Cash, Young

LB: Moreno, Digne

CB: Mings, Konsa, Carlos, Chambers

CM: Kamara, Luiz, Dendoncker, Iroegbunam

RW: McGinn, Bailey, Traore, JBP

LW: J.Ramsey, Coutinho, A.Ramsey

CAM: Buendia

ST: Watkins, Archer, Duran

—— 

I’d say the above is broadly the first team squad going into next year (bold = starters). Appreciate there is some positional flexibility amongst some of them.

I think J. Ramsey and Buendia are currently the weakest links in the first XI. A new LW and CAM would really help us kick on.

If we do make it into Europe, I also think we need better depth at CB, CM (Guendouzi?) and GK.

2 hours ago, Farlz said:

Honestly, I think we’d be fine without Kamara for the run in. Dougie is still the maestro in the middle and Donk has filled in well. McGinn can obviously also play the role (although I much prefer him wide).

Couldn’t disagree more. We desperately need him back. Dendoncker has been fine, but Kamara is our best outfield player - it’s a massive step up.

Need Cash back ASAP too (and even Coutinho) - as others have said, the bench is incredibly thin at the moment.

He's not a bad player, he breaks up play well. He's just miles off Kamara. He rarely shows for the ball, and when he does have the ball he will never make an incisive pass in between the lines.

Man Utd, Spurs, Liverpool and Brighton to come...will be very tough if we don't get Kamara back.

Really poor on the ball tonight in my opinion (although very good off it). Slow to release Moreno when the pass was on, struggled to retain possession when we used him as our out-ball, just generally lacked quality in the final third.

CAM and LW will be positions we can make a huge upgrade on this summer - as McGinn is making the other side his own.