El-Reacho

I can't believe people are still going on about 'should he stay or should he go'

He's staying regardless

I think it will take a massive finish to the season for McLeish to save his job.

Houllier was sacked after a really strong finish, despite the fact he needed paying off, and he had much more support from the fans than McLeish currently has. He had been given the all clear from his Doctor. His signings were settling well (Makoun excluded admittedly) - yet Lerner still sacked him. He also tried to play positive football with the younger players.

Mcleish really has nothing to fall back on: Attendances down, the media on his back now, the fans on his back, talk of player mutinies, and his signings have not performed. Also the likes of Warnock, who Paul Faulkner said McLeish had brought back to being one of the best LB's in the PL a couple of months ago has now reverted back to being utterly useless.

If Lerner is twice as patient with McLeish than he was with Houllier then he'll still sack him this summer based on the above.

Im still baffled why we didn't go for Woy Hodgson, Great manager I believe he would have done better than McLeish with these players.

He'd only joined WBA a few months previously. He's definitely not the type to jump ship like that. Would have been delighted if he'd had though.

I seem to remember O'Neill's first season as being something we had to get out of the way so we could start spending money on people like Wesley Schneijder and Miguel the next summer. That season was full of excitement and hope rather than negativity. Then we signed Marlon and we all had to re-adjust to realise that MON's targets were rarely particularly exciting, exotic, or interesting.

There's none of the excitment and hope this time around - even after McLeish said about spending money this summer. I think everyone's panicking about who he'll waste it on...

I have to admit that last year I felt that once Houllier had a summer to get rid of the ones who were going against his policies and tactics we'd see the best of him as a manager. His transfer targets were also a bit more interesting - at least they were people we'd never heard of like Fofana etc.

Warnock is one of the most overrated Villa players of recent times

Overrated? I dont know anybody who rates him at all.

Apart from MoN of course

Paul Faulkner rates him as one of the best LB's in the premier league. He's certainly in the top 20.

James McClean at Sunderland is of similar age, experience, and from the same league as Enda (think he was even cheaper?). He was completely ignored by Bruce, who signed him, and has been thrown into the thick of it by O'Neill. He looks a real prospect and is now being talked up for Ireland's Euro 2012 squad. There's every chance Enda can emulate that.

Are we not able to buy the club as supporters, and then elect a chairman to make decisions on a termly-basis, a la Barcelona and Madrid?

Those clubs generate ten times the income that Villa do. We're vastly spending beyond the club's means as it is, so if the 'fans' were to take control of Villa and use only the club's generated income to fund the players we'd probably just implode, as we'd have to sell half the current squad to balance the books and then we'd subsequently get relegated. Then our parachute payments would run out and we would have no sky money, and might have 20,000 gates every week in the Championship. We would then have to re-adjust again accordingly selling any of the quality we might have left in our squad until we found our sustainable level. Probably bottom half of Championship - Leeds are pretty much self sustaining at this stage I think.

If things get really dire with McLeish we'll see what Lerner's plans are. As long as he's in the job a takeover is likely, however if RL forks out the £3m or whatever is required to get rid of him it's safe to say he's not interested in selling any time soon.

Just noticed that Carlo Ancelotti seems to have agreed to take the PSG job. Interesting that the guy who started the Villa/QSI takeover rumours on that other forum said one thing that was certain is that Ancelotti would not be involved with Villa if a takeover were to take place. Possibly because he knew he had the PSG job last week? - might give him some cred.

I know Ancelotti has been linked with PSG since Leonardo's involvement with the club but Kombuoare's job seemed secure after their last few games.

Nothing like keeping yourself entertained with random internet rumours....

Paul Doyle made a good point in the Guardian a few weeks back in that historically when McLeish takes over a side he does well with the previous manager's squad and set-up, but as he starts to settle in and implement his own way of doing things and buying his own players things start to go downhill after a season or two. Don't want to think where that would leave us.....

My only issue with Lerner is his ability to appoint football staff. He has tried to think outside the box with his managerial appointments and it has gone spectacularly wrong both times.

Right now I really don't care that Lerner is not investing in the squad because what's the point when McLeish is persevering with the current dross on the pitch. If we spent big money on anyone other than a defender they would be completely marginalised anyway - look at Bent. He won't let anyone whose vaguely attacking play to their strengths. Look at N'Zogbia now too.

I wonder if Lerner has learned from how O'Neill's players have failed to gel with subsequent managers and is holding back on investing until he knows he has a manager that is going to be successful enough to be here for more than a year. I wouldn't give McLeish any money to spend right now.

1. I can't think of a realistic, better replacement

2. I wouldn't trust Lerner to think or find one either

3. I firmly believe managers need time. I think it's only fair to give him a chance in the transfer window now he's had time to assess the squad if Lerner backs him

4. Apart from the boring, defensive football, I don't think McLeish is doing an absolute awful lot wrong (*reaches for the tin hat*). I think our decline is largely to do with the players we've lost more than anything McLeish has or hasn't done. Personally, I think Houllier was doing a much worse job, in every aspect of being a manager and I'd have McLeish over Houllier any day

I would have agreed with all your points in September but in December I think:

I would take an overseas coach or an unproven PL coach from the lower leagues who has shown they can organise a football team to defend. I think this is all a manager needs to have achieved to date to match what McLeish has managed to date.

All Lerner does is give his consultancy an brief when finding a manager - he must now know that he needs to change the brief and look at the likes of proven continental mangers, and Hughes etc. And also mangers in current PL jobs such as Brendan Rodgers.

I agree that a manager needs time but McLeish has shown not even the slightest suggestion that he aspires to have Villa playing winning football. In the vast majority of games we've been set up to not conceed rather than to attack. We have a squad filled with players that want to play attacking football on the ground and to take risks in the opposition half but McLeish has them playing defensive roles or has dropped them if they don't adhere to his rules on the pitch.

Paul Faulkner raved about how AMcL has rejuvinated Stephen Warnock into one of the best left backs int he PL after GH had sidelined him, and if that's the case then he and Randy can't fail to see the harm that McLeish is having on Darren Bent (their £18m investment) who had a handful of touches tonight, Barry Bannan, Marc Albrighton, Stephen Ireland (£8m?), Charles N'Zogbia etc. These players are becoming worthless under McLeish and the club will have to realise that sooner or later.

The only positive thing from tonight and the defeat at WHL is that the mainstream sports media have now jumped on how pathetic Villa have become recently and this will resonate with RL and PF. I think this will only heighten over the Christmas fixtures.

Gave him my full support when he arrived as I didn't care about the BCFC issue and thought with a good squad of players like we currently have he wouldn't go with the negative dross he's renowned for but he's simply a miserable manager and we're now a miserable team that are universally hated.

Houllier got the chop after an 8th place finish and that was with an aspiration for actually trying to win games, and a £18m layout for a striker that would keep us up. So hopefully RL will be as cut throat this time and sack him. And will learn from this appointment when searching for our next manager.

Have never been so disinterested in PL football in the last 20 years.

And if we do beat Man City it'll be because it was a) lucky or against a weakened City side

Or because the players chose to ignore AMcL's negative boring tactics and came up with their own.

Gabby's ability to go missing for weeks on end will always impact on his value unfortunately. Under McLeish though he's been of more value to us than Bent. As someone mentioned in the match thread yesterday he's becoming reminiscent of Henry at Arsenal this season.

Also agree that he's more valuable to us than anyone else - when he gets older he will be an invaluable member of Villa's squad. Hopefully he'll be a one club man.

That was their sub keeper. I get the impression he'll be starting from here on.

He's Swansea's 'keeper apparently - is there on emergency loan. Thank God it didn't go to penalties....

(Although we did have Guzan who's no slouch in CC shootouts)

Wee scare will do the youngsters the world of good.

If he's on a free he'll want big wages which if all the rumours are true will rule him out for us. NUFC have transfer listed him - I wonder if they'd take Beye in exchange which would free up some wages.

I think Ireland is a bit of a fruit and sometimes causes his own trouble (in the press) but that is totally unacceptable. Some people should have lost their jobs/right to play for their country because of that. Do you know who the players were gazton? Obviously don't post it on here.

Rumours back then was it were Stephen Hunt and Robbie Keane :|

At the time I remember hearing it was the then Reading clique of Hunt, Doyle, and Shane Long. Stephen Hunt subsequntly went on to Ryan Tubridy's show and pretty much admitted to this thinking it was a hilarious story, and then said there would be blue murder if SI came back into the Irish setup (in the context of ROI managing to qualify for Euro 2008).

Shows the total lack of any discipline in Staunton's ROI set-up.

Play hardball and throw him in the reserves, let him see his contract out etc. Sorry but it wont work like that in the game today. He is an ssset worth approx 19M by all accounts. Not sure the club, or any club really apart from Citeh, is in a position to lose 19M or a significant portion of it.

It is a pity we could not show him we can achieve what he wants and so keep him here but that's what a club in our position faces I'm afraid

why is it always the club that is 100% responsible? if downing wants wants champions league and trophies so much why hasnt he put in the performances to help us get there.

he came into a team with a solid keeper and defence, with a midfield of milner, young and petrov and with gabby and carew upfront back when they were both playing really well. we had come so close the year before and then spent big in the summer (including on downing) to ensure the same didnt happen the next year. it was the perfect platform for him to succeed - no pressure on him, other quality attackers who would create space for him etc. yes he was injured for the first few months, but even when fully fit he was crap. he wants a cup - he played in a cup final with us and was annonymous. if he was so desperate to win a cup maybe he could have worked his backside off and put in a matchwinning performance.

even last season where he was better, he still wasnt outstanding. a decent amount of goals and assists but nothing special. marc albrighton in his first ever prem season nearly got as many, and in much less minutes played. at least barry and young put in a shift and really tried to help us get somewhere before leaving. and along with milner they all were able to dominate games and win them for us on their own. they had the ability to singlehandedly get key results for us. imo downing has not shown that, he has never dominated a match for us like those 3.

its what annoys me the most about footballers. they seem to expect success handed to them on a plate and they take no responsibility themselves for lack of success. thats despite the fact that at the end of the day it is they who go out on the pitch and are ultimately responsible for results

Summed up nicely.

If Downing was determined to play for a CL team only why did he sign a lucrative contract with us, and not hold out for one of the big four. The answer is obviously that if he'd done that he'd still be playing Championship football for Middlesborough. They're a cynical bunch and unless we can get a bunch of players like Gaby (can't really think of any others) this will continue happening. We're hoping N'Zogbia signs but if he has a successful two seasons here it will be the same with him - and he's probably thinking that himself at this stage.

He was a far more logical player to play in the hole than Ashley was last season, except he was a bit of an arsehole.

He's fallen out with so many of his mangers that hopefully the penny will drop with him - I have a big contract with Villa so should really make an effort to get on with the new manager.

Him playing in the hole behind Bent with Downing alongside him would replicate that Ireland/Elano/Robinho trio that was so successful for City for a while a few seasons back.

well it looks done so theres no point in taking out our frustration on mcleish. he's an innocent party in all this. can any of you say you wouldn't have taken the villa job if you were in his position? no chance. he's come to a bigger club, better team and one backed by more money, of course he was going to take it

our collective issues here lie with the board, who have approached this whole thing with in real charlie chaplin fashion. faulkner needs to go, the "advisors" we have need to go, and lerner needs to put in more money than he ever has before and hope to sweet **** that things turn out better than we all anticipate.

if you've got issues, don't take them out on the manager or the players, take them out on the board. when the players are on the pitch support them, at least until we're 10-15 games into the season and we have a fair idea of how the mcleish thing is going to turn out. if they're playing utter garbage with nonsense tactics then by all means, let your views be known about that. but lets not start crucifying the manager because he decided to take a much better job when it was offered to him

I agree. I mentioned this earlier. Bottom line is, McLeish has done nothing wrong in what has turned into the sorry states of affairs that were widely reported by the media. As much as it pains me to say, Moxley was bang on!! Complete and utter shambles.

I agree that PF has to go. I have given the guy credit in the past, but it obviously quite clear to anyone outside of Villa Park that he has no football knowledge and personally I think he is becoming more of a hindrance than an asset. But it will be very hard to shift him from the furniture of the Villa board, as he has RL very much in his pocket.

So would that mean getting rid of Randy as well. Well, be careful what you wish for.

I've learnt that lesson from wanting Houllier out for the last season.....

After the past few weeks it is now essential that we have a quick decision with a manager in place to start working on recruiting and retaining players. The amount of over-reaction to the possible appointment of a football manager is ridiculous. He would not be my choice but is unlikely to be a disappointment, may even surprise some fans. He certainly must have some courage to be willing to take on this job with all the flak that is flying around.

Why? Chelsea sacked Ancelotti a week before we sacked Houllier and they came out this morning and said they hoped to appoint a new manager within the next two weeks. Chelsea have a rebuilding job to do too. Why aren't the press telling Roman to 'hang his head in shame' for taking so long to appoint a new manager?

I'm happy to wait as long is it takes, even if it's mid July. If Randy appoints McLeish now just to get it done, and then Hughes ends up at some mid table team in the near future I'll be pissed off.

if the board are not prepared to spend maybe they should appoint from within.it will take 80 million plus to buy a squad that will challenge for top 5 considering the amount of players leaving or wanting out.

If that's the case we should have held onto Houllier. If the only issue was his health then KMac or GMac are there anyway, and that seems to be the standard we're going to end up with.

Was glad Houllier went - what a difference a couple of weeks makes.

Just a thought but what would people think if we'd appointed McLeish from Rangers when he'd just beaten O'Neill's Celtic to the title on the last day (was it 2004?) with pretty much the same resources as O'Neill had if not less.

I'm not on the wind up here - just trying to see something positive in this appointment if it happens.

Must be a diversion or a smokescreen. If the rumours of Randy calling off a meeting with McLaren due to the fans reaction on these sites then he's not going to subsequently go and appoint someone who'll antagonise the fans even more.

The General has shot from the hip before and got himself in trouble for it - he'd not do something like this after that, particularly when RL and PF have gone out of their way to be so secretive.

Am I just clutching at straws?