dundeevilla

The 1st one.

God doesn't have control over anything we do.

Then he's not omnipotent?

Just because he knows what we are going to do, doesn't mean he is making us do it.

God is supposedly omnipotent right? That means he is all-powerful, has unlimited power.

You're saying he has no control over what we do.

So is he omnipotent or not?

He chooses not to interfere. As I already explained ages back, he gave us free will, the ability to do what we like. He did not want to create a race of zombies. He wants us to chose to follow him, not do it because he pressed a button on our heads.

Now watch the damn game!

Ah right, he chooses not to interfere.

That's not what you said though - you said he had no control over us.

You say he chooses not to interfere, but he used to interfere quite a lot if you believe the Bible. Bellowing down orders to Abraham and Moses, talking to Adam, impregnating virgins, sending his son to walk among us, dispatching angels to talk to shepherds etc. Why do you think he gave up on this interference?? Strange innit.

Another point, on free will. If you believe that God is all-knowing and knows everything that will happen in our lives, then free will is a nonsense. If he knows every single decision we will take and what will happen as result, then our lives are mapped out for us and free will is an illusion.

If you say he doesn't know what we're going to do, then he's not an all-knowing god.

Your thoughts Jondaken?

The 1st one.

God doesn't have control over anything we do.

Then he's not omnipotent?

Just because he knows what we are going to do, doesn't mean he is making us do it.

God is supposedly omnipotent right? That means he is all-powerful, has unlimited power.

You're saying he has no control over what we do.

So is he omnipotent or not?

The 1st one.

God doesn't have control over anything we do.

Then he's not omnipotent?

The Ancient Hebrew name for God is YHWH..and you're quite correct without the vowels it's hard to know the exact pronunciation.

Hi Julie,A few pages back I asked you a question about your understanding of evolution and how you couldn't reconcile it with the complexity of nature. You've probably missed it - but I would be interested to hear your answer if you've got the time.

Thanks.

It is impossible to define God with mere words.

When we move into the quietitude of a spiritual realm we can begin to understand true realisation and a higher consciousness. These are the first steps towards higher understanding.

Can you explain exacly what you mean by this, as it isn't clear. How do we move into the spiritual realm, and where is that realm? What is true realisation and higher consciousness? High understanding of what - a supernatural being? Please expand.

Have you read about evolution or studied it in any way in an attempt to understand a bit better? There is masses of information freely available that can explain it to you. Once you understand how evolution works, the pieces all fall into place. There is absolutely no reason why complexity in nature cannot be squared with evolution.

Playing devils advocate a little, the complexity of evolution is almost *too good to be true*. Evolution is a fabulous system, so good, so perfect, so all encompassing it could almost have been designed on purpose.

There's nothing perfect about it - it's an inevitablity. If lifeforms inhabit an environment, they will evolve according to the struggle for existence in that particluar environment. The results of that process are just that - the results of that process.

For example - we are hardly perfectly evolved beings. We are still very vulnerable to disease and death. Many of us have poor eyesight, our useless appendixes burst and kill us etc etc. What results from evolution is not perfection.

What or Who makes people do the right thing ?

People don't always do "the right thing".

If you are asking where our morality comes from - it evolved as we evolved.

A common morality has survival benefits.

We were just lucky enough to be the species that evolved. I love my thumbs.

All species evolved.

Sorry my mistake, what I meant to say was evolved at a much faster rate, especially where social development and interaction is concerned.

I don't read my posts half the time, especially when I am trying to type as fast as I think. Which also leads to typos.

But I assume the people reading it can work out what I am trying to say, but in the case of the mistake you pointed out, I stupidly left out an entire sentence. Arrrrrrrgh.

I seek forgivness in the video below

In the name of the father, son and the celestial teapot, you are forgiven my son.

What or Who makes people do the right thing ?

Social conditioning.

The idea that it is better for everyone and therefore better for yourself if you do the "right thing".

It was learnt by many species (not just humans) over their different evolution paths that cooperation improves your chances of survival and now it is so ingrained it is instinctual.

So why do some do the wrong thing ?

Is it a personal choice to listen to the voice or not ? or is it that some hear a different voice.

Generally accepted codes of moral standards exist in our societies - this will differ from culture to culture.

However, just because an accepted moral code exists doesn't mean that all individuals will adhere to it or have the exact same moral standards.

The fact that some people do good things and some do bad things is not supporting evidence for the existence of gods/devils.

What or Who makes people do the right thing ?

People don't always do "the right thing".

If you are asking where our morality comes from - it evolved as we evolved.

A common morality has survival benefits.

We were just lucky enough to be the species that evolved. I love my thumbs.

All species evolved.

Yes I do.......I didn't used to.... because I was bought up by Agnostics and was never baptised or anything.

Always loved nature since I was a little girl and I'm afraid I could never reconcile the beauty and the complexity in nature and the natural world,with evolution and there being no creator.

Actually to my surprise as I grew up I learned that even Darwin who started the theory of evolution believed in a Creator, he never said that he didn't beleive in God. Just over time other's made their minds up that the theory of evolution explained away any existence or need for a "Creator"

So yes I do believe in God and the Bible says his name is Jehovah, which in ancient Hebrew means.... "He causes to become"

Julie, don't mean to be confrontational here - just interested in your pov.

You say you can't reconcile evolution with the complexity of nature. However this is exactly what evolutionary theory allows us to - it explains in a simple yet brilliant way how the complexity of life arose as we see it today. Have you ever asked yourself, for example, why there are thousands of different species of beetle? Did god just love making beetles, or is there another reason?

Have you read about evolution or studied it in any way in an attempt to understand a bit better? There is masses of information freely available that can explain it to you. Once you understand how evolution works, the pieces all fall into place. There is absolutely no reason why complexity in nature cannot be squared with evolution.

What or Who makes people do the right thing ?

People don't always do "the right thing".

If you are asking where our morality comes from - it evolved as we evolved.

A common morality has survival benefits.

bottom line - if a creationist falls ill - he shouldn't be treated by any modern medicine.

Err... all medicine is created by things that where put on this earth to begin with.

If a scientist falls ill, he should not be given anything, because what does it matter if he lives or dies? His life means nothing, and neither does anyone elses, so why go through the effort to save a meaningless life?

er....because he will be dead and people will get upset?

plus as human beings we have emotional and moral standing to do something about it?

Emotions and morals. Where did they come from? Did they just evolve into a physical body? Where did life itself come from? A rock? Where does the will to survive coem from (aka survival of the fittest)

People would care about that man and want to help him, because he DOES matter is what I'm trying to get at.

I really do have a million more questions with the only answer I can come up with to any of them, is that God must exist

So your argument here is:

You don't understand where life came from - therefore God must exist.

You don't understand how emotions and morals could have evolved - therefore god must exist.

You don't know where the 'will to survive' came from - therefore god must exist.

It seems the main thing that's underpinning your belief in god is ignorace.

Read up a bit on abiogenesis and evolutionary theory in order to rid your mind of childish superstition, would be my sincere advice to you.

Ahhhhh, but that same argument could be used for scientific theory. Where did the big bang come from? There must have been something before for that theory to work.

Forget the universe itself, where did space itself come from?

The big bang didn't happen in space, the big bang was an explosion OF space.

What was before the big bang? Nothing. It's like asking which way is south when you are at the south pole. There was no space and no time for there to be anything in.

Answering a mystery with an even bigger mystery doesn't help

Science does that far too often.

Oh the irony! Science does this too often??? Religions do it ALL THE TIME - all they ever have to say about life and the universe is 'goddidit'. Which is explaining the complexity of life and the universe by attributing its creation to an unexplained and untestable being that must logically be even more complex. Saying 'goddidit' answers nothing and simply raises even bigger questions.

At least science keeps an open mind and works towards solving the mysteries of the universe. Just because some things like the Big Bang have not been fully explained is no reason to conjur up a god to explain anything - the God of the gaps.

Little 15 by Depeche Mode.

Well dodgy lyrics when you listen to them. A Question of Time has a similarly questionable theme. Doubt if a band could get away with it these days.

Great band though. Very dark.

Detached. Four bedrooms, four toilets, for two people

We hope to fill it with small dundeevillas soon.

He was OK. Had more disappointing seasons than good ones so I don't see how he can be considered a 'legend' really.

As someone said previously, Dion Dublin was a better player for Villa.

Rush - Virtuality

Despite the reference to modems (what are those?), the lyrics are still very relevant...

Like a shipwrecked mariner

Adrift on an unknown sea

Clinging to the wreckage

Of the lost ship Fantasy

I'm a castaway stranded

In a desolate land

I can see the footprints

In the virtual sand

Net boy, net girl

Send your signal 'round the world

Let your fingers walk and talk

And set you free

Net boy, net girl

Send your impulse 'round the world

Put your message in a modem

And throw it in the cyber sea

Astronauts in the weightlessness

Of pixellated space

Exchange graffiti with

A disembodied race

I can save a universe

In a grain of sand

I can hold the future

In my virtual hand

Let's dance tonight to a virtual song

Press this key and you can play along

Let's fly tonight on our virtual wings

Press this key to see amazing things

Like a pair of vagabonds

Who wave between two passing trains

Or the glimpse of a woman's smile

Through a window in the rain

I can smell her perfume

I can taste her lips

I can feel the voltage

From her fingertips

Net boy, net girl

Send your heartbeat 'round the world

Let your fingers walk and talk

And set you free

Relevant to what?

Terrible terrible lyrics.

A few glasses of a nice cheeky red.

Very sorry to hear of your loss General.

That's what religion traditionally does to people Paddy, browbeats them and makes them feel guilty until they conform.

Tell whoever has put the guilt trip on you to **** right off!

Religion is bollox, so no.

A very noble gesture mate - even if you can't remember it!

Owen for sure. If he plays he scores.

Clarkson's an utter bawbag. 'End of the world', aye right whatever. Can't believe people like him get paid good money to write this kind of bollux.

So much better now. Beautful wife, nice house, settled, happy (most of the time).

Five years ago I was in a bit of a mess tbh.