Butterfingers

4 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said:

So if one goes for 7 and cost 9 - Loss of 2mill

The other signed for free and goes for 5 - Profit of 5mill

Overall Profit/Loss - 3mill. Sounds like good business to me.

It sounds like excellent business.

The only problem we have is that nobody is going to pay anywhere near £5million for Richards. When talking about understanding "the basic premise of negotiations", lets analyse the Richards deal, assuming the figures we have are correct.

We get him for nothing and put him on ludicrously high wages-Fair enough.
He may have a clause that sees his wages halve if we go down-This would still leave him on wages that are higher than many PL players and money that many Villa players were on last season.
To place a release clause of £5million on someone who would ideally be moved on due to his high wages is absolute idiocy. We are effectively placing barriers in front of something that we would want to happen.

Richards being on twice as much as Gana would see that gap in profit diminish over a two year period.

Gana was our first signing last summer. We had plenty of time to do the deal-There was no need whatsoever to place such a low release clause-It is almost unheard of when negotiating these deals. Gana was desperate to join us-It can never be argued that he held the upper hand in negotiations regarding his release clause.

Regarding it being good business, with the benefit of hindsight, do you honestly, hand on heart think that being stuck with Richards on high wages and loosing Gana at a loss is good business?

Personally, if we could get £12 million for both of them, I would be very happy as I don't rate Gana as highly as many on here do. I also think you have to be on drugs to think that someone will pay £5 million for a troublemaker who couldn't even get into the starting line up of one of the worst ever PL teams in history.

Just now, bobzy said:

I'm amazed people still don't understand the basic premise of negotiations

I'm just amazed at some of these clauses (if true)

I can't see them taking Richards as a central defender. They've got a solid pairing. Its more likely to be right back, if he is attracting their interest.

On a side note-WTF pencilled in these release clauses?£5million for a player we signed on a free yet only £7million for a player we signed for £9 million.

Richards could not even get into Villas starting line up at the end of last season-Nobody is going to pay anywhere near £5 million for him. Anything, just to get him away from the place will do, even if we let him go on a free. 

16 minutes ago, hippo said:

RDM was the never the man if you wanted a big clearout. Its something hes never done in his own career  - and by his own admission his forte is "getting difficult dressing rooms to work together" . I always suspected when he was appointed that he would adopt a diplomatic approach to the current squad. I can't believe people did see this on appointment.

To me the issue isn't  how many of last squad remain. Its how strongly they are managed and kept in line. Personally I doubt RDM is the man to rule that dressing room with an iron fist - and that will be his downfall. All IMO of course. 

 

Not many managers have overseen big clear outs and even less have done so more than once.

It is not a specialist job-Anyone can do it. It does however involve several factors, not least, does the contracted player actually agree to being "cleared out".

I always suspected that whoever took charge would want to make his own decision on the players available-I'd have been far more concerned if he hadn't.

I think people who have visions of RDM being some kind of soft touch are in for a surprise.

1 hour ago, Dom_Wren said:

I hope he stays and plays, sure hes raw, sure he needs to learn when to pass.

BUT

he gets you off your seat, hes electric, hes direct, he goes forward, I think hes got so much potential, come on, were always talking about how we want to be excited and how boring last season was, and sqaure passes are crap and all that. This guy has it all in his locker, hes unpredictable, dare i say a little like a young more athletic asprilla?

Give him a chance to put the fear of god into opposing defences.

For me, there is nothing more exciting than seeing a player take on and go past an opponent at pace. I don't even care about the passing thing-That is nigh on impossible to coach into a player who plays with such pace. Let him go alone to the by line and put the ball into the danger area-Percentages will prove a winner. Passing square to Westwood, Gana or Vertout to blaze hopelessly wide or hopelessly high is not something I would recommend. 

26 minutes ago, av1 said:

Which is quite remarkable given we were as good as gone last Xmas. 

It highlights how unbelievably incompetent the previous incumbents really were. 

 

 

Not really-The previous ownership could not act until the future of the club was divided. The previous regime had a plan in place. They wanted Pearson as manager for example.

The new regime came in and the goalposts were moved. We have a manager that would not have been here if Lerner hadn't sold and a transfer budget to match previous seasons at best.

Newcastle had their contingency plans in place before our takeover was even completed-That is one thing you cannot throw at the previous regimes door.The previous regimes plans would have been entirely different to those of the new owners.

This is getting silly. We had a transfer budget of somewhere between £30 & £50mil. We've spent more than 10 of that. Does someone really suggest that we spend the remainder on buying out players contracts?

What about FFP? I confess to not knowing much about it but know enough to know that you cannot simply throw a disproportionate amount into a club.

No team, anywhere in the world, in the history of football has paid out millions to buy players contracts out en masse. This is the real world here, not football manager. As a championship club, we have to cut our cloth accordingly, regardless of how much our owner has access to.

We are not going to but out all the dead wood's contracts-It's not going to happen. Move on and lets get back to sensible suggestions.

14 minutes ago, 7392craig said:

It was more of a joke, whether my post was good or not is relative to the person reading it. Also I'm not saying that money won't be spent or isn't available. I was asking what people's opinion of it was. As you say, a club in our position is going to struggle to sign players. But as is evident in football, money talks. We've seen plenty of players in the past go to clubs beneath them because of money. I know that doesn't guarantee success (QPR a prime example) but generally you can get what you want if you spend the money. Since players won't want to come because of our position then I do wonder why we're being so delicate about throwing some money about, which certainly would push us in the right direction as a start, even if it can't be maintained. (That then raises the doubt over our clubs spending power again).

Yes, I realised it was tongue in cheek-I'm sure that you've made many good posts.

Reading between some of the cryptic comments made by Wyness and Dr Xia, they seem more concerned about the restrictions of FFP than they do of lack of funding. If these people really have no money at their disposal then they've just thrown £75 million down the drain. This club is a major project that requires major investment to become self sufficient, let alone successful-What motive is there for some bloke in China to throw £75mil at it and then languish in the obscurity of the championship whilst running the club on a shoestring budget?

Remember, these weren't the only interested party-They were selected as the purchasers as being the best bet for the club moving forward. The best bet surely means someone who is prepared to invest?

36 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

The article makes it sound like we have a very ambitious board and a slightly more restrained and pragmatic manager.

Not a bad combination as long as the board aren't impatient.

I'm not worried. I think we have a chance of promotion this season, although I wouldn't say it was a huge chance.

I think we will be in the top 6, which in my eyes is a huge chance. We probably have half a dozen stand out championship standard players, assuming we can keep hold of them. The press reports linking us to strikers have been very encouraging. I'd be more than happy with one or even two from that list. A few players moving out will see space for better replacements as well.

52 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said:

Eh? Why will it? He could go out on loan and have a stormer and someone pays more to obtain him (see Alderweideld at Southampton)

Have a stormer where? In the French league? LOL. He'll have less left on his contract, hence his re-sale value will fall. He's had a season here and he couldn't hold a place in the worst midfield in the league by a country mile-How much of a stormer do think he'd nee, just to get us anywhere near the £8 million +  that we paid for him?

I think we've all got used to looking at players and asking ourselves if they can perform at the level and if the answer is yes, we're happy. We're looking to build a side that will not only perform in the championship but will give the likes of Newcastly, Derby, Norwich and Brighton a run for their money. Vetrout is little more than a prospect at this stage-There is no guarantee that he will ever be any better, he is after all 25 ish. I want players in there who I know will be able to give anyone in that league a game. I'm not sure that Vertout will.

Loaning him out will see a good percentage fall off his re-sale fee in 12 months time. The fact that the club are prepared to take this hit (something Lerner would never have done) shows ambition to me.

Let him go and lets get someone in who is better and more hungry than Vertout is. The more links from last season that are severed, the better for me.

Ayew staying and world domination in 5 years.

What more can we ask for?

4 minutes ago, TheStagMan said:

Could Marseille just make up their sodding minds who they want?????? First it's Gana, then Sanchez, now Veretout......

Tell you what boys, buy both Sanchez and Veretout and we will throw in a a free "striker" and a free "Centre Back". Premier league quality - honest :-)

 

It's more likely the press finding out that theres been contact between the clubs and applying guesswork on who the target is. Let's hope they're in for Sanchez as well.

A man who wasn't first choice in the worst midfield the Prem has seen for a while Is no loss whatsoever.

It speaks volumes of the new ownership if they're prepared to let him go out on loan for nothing just so we can bring in a better replacement.

If we are getting a fee for him, all well and good but it doesn't look like Marseille have the funds.

I pity their fans next season if Vertout & Sanchez are forming part of their midfield.

5 minutes ago, PieFacE said:

I would not loan Veretout out at all.  Sell him or play him.  I'd rather just play him.  

If he's said he doesn't want to play in the championship then theres not much point. I always got the feeling that he never quite settled here. If we can get him out on loan and not have to subsidise wages, I'll be happy with that-He wouldn't have been in my starting 11 in any case. If we can get a loan fee now and a transfer fee at some point in the future, that will do.

4 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said:

The big problem with keeping Agbonlahor, Richards, Lescott and Bacuna, is that one mistake and they will be pilloried by the crowd.

That sort of thing quickly spreads, and the negativity effects the entire team. If the management team involves them, they are taking quite a chance.

Bacuna is just stupid, the other 3, I cannot forgive for last season. They bear a great responsibility, in my opinion, for us being in the position we are in.

Yes and of course there is the potential of them disrupting as well. At least 2, ideally 3 need to be bombed out. Lescott is possibly open to a buy out given him only having 1 year left. The other 3 are all on long contracts and earning more than anyone else is likely to want to pay for them. With only one remaining, I would be prepared to let him get his head down and see what he can achieve. The sad thing is, after last season, you wouldn't want any of them starting in the Championship, which further indicates how absolutely woeful the team was.

13 hours ago, terrytini said:

I can only say there are at least 6 players need to go before Westwood.

He isn't great, I don't think that's arguable (?) but he isn't awful, and I can picture him being someone RDM would want in the side. Having said that, if he left, he wouldn't really be missed would he ?

I'm very much of this opinion. However, it's not as simple as selling players in a pecking order. If £6million was on the table for him and nothing for our favourite wasters, it might be that the deal would go through first. In fact it's far, far more likely that teams will be in for Westwood before the likes of Richards and Bacuna, which in itself is a compliment to him.

A new start may do him good. He's never really shone for us but by the same token can never be accused of lack of commitment, unlike others from last season. He has played through 4 very difficult seasons for us. It is sad to say that he probably has become accustomed to loosing. Maybe a change is best for both parties at this point?

21 minutes ago, AVTuco said:

I thought Lescott handled it pretty well. No emotion, just "brilliant". Well done.

I thought he was just being professional, which is better late than never, I guess. 6 months ago, he'd have probably told the lad to turn up at BMH for a straightener.

I think there is an outside chance of one of either Richards or Bacuna coming back from this and turning things around (only if we can't offload and are stuck with them)-It's happened before.

For Lescott though, his boat has sailed. He has turned into an unbelievably poor player as age has caught up with him very quickly. He simply hasn't got it any more and coupled with the issues of last season, I can't see any way back for him. It's unfortunate because I'm sure it's not how he wanted things to turn out when he joined last year-The posting of that Tweet betrayed him as incredibly stupid, what did he expect after a 6-0 home defeat, an open top bus tour through the city?

If that is the favoured formation, I can't see Ayew starting there. It is more suited to that Bristol City striker. Whether that means Ayew dropping further back or him leaving, I'm not too sure. I would suggest that RDM does not want to loose him but that may be out of his hands.

I wouldn't be too bothered going into the first few games with Hutton. Ideally I'd like him replaced but there are other areas I'd like to see changes first, within the midfield & strike force.

Aug 31st would be OK for a RB for me, if those other positions are filled in earlier.

16 minutes ago, Gary Thomas said:

Good post, where I am now - 3 weeks away from the start of the season with pretty much the same squad apart from a few fringe players leaving and three decent in.  Still reasonably positive, but need to get our business done pretty quickly now.

We seem to have hit this obstacle that always happens during these windows, where we can't move until players go the other way, then all of a sudden everything happens almost at once.

I can't help thinking at the back of my mind that Awye is on his way but for me, forwards can slot in at any time-Their remit is the same whoever they play for-Put the ball in the back of the net. I would like to see the midfield and defence taking shape still, sooner rather than later.

I also think that at least a couple are going to come in after the season kicks off.

It's very difficult when they are charging their own fans the same. Some would argue it's a consequence of not being in the prem, where matchday revenue is secondary to TV revenue.

It is a different scenario to the policy Blues had under the Golds & Sullivan where they purposely targeted away fans to shaft. In Wednesdays defence, it would be adding insult to injury if they charged their fans more than the away fans. I'm guessing season ticket holders will not be effected by the "grading" of each game and their tickets will average out at way under £42, probably under £30.

Not the first player that I'd like shot of and I certainly wouldn't want him starting initially, based on his contributions last season. At some point though, he would get his chance and it would be up to him to take it. If it worked for him, we would be in a win win situation. If it didn't work, we would be writing off circa £2million in his transfer value.