TRO

13 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

I want it too, but no way are we ready, I doubt we get out the group.

It'll be a killer too next season with our small squad.

well, I think with players back and strengthening, it will make a big difference.

2 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

We could still make it over the line without winning any of our games.

 

there's a thought.

I think we will get 1 more win....but I don't know against who.

Are we ready for Champions league?.....missing out on the Europa, is a huge step up.

Don't get me wrong, I want to achieve it, but I wonder, if we are actually ready for it.

3 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

As you know, "Stats" can be very misleading . I posted a comment at half  - time with the opinion that, Chelsea showing that possession for possession sake means nothing. In that first - half, imo, we looked like the team more likely to score. I had no sense of panic although that half. And a lot of that confidence was down to Martinez and his calmness when making decisions and that was also evident in the defence. Yet when Olsen entered the contest, that sense of calmness seemed to evaporate, even before he had touched the ball, that loss of assurance and confidence was almost palpable, hence the quietness of the crowd. I'm in no way claiming Olsen was at fault for the goals conceded, my point is, in the second half   we never had the same calmness and defensive discipline that we had in the first, and I don't believe it's just a coincidence that we lost our self  - belief when Emi went off. 

We no longer had that threat on the counter and at times Olsen was going long. That's how I saw the game. Who does the fault lie with? That's for the manager to work out. I'm not hating on Olsen, I just think he doesn't inspire confidence in the way Emi does, and, for me, that was clearly evident against Chelsea. 

 

I can't argue Sheepy, with all that.

I can tell you, at 2-0 up, I was still nervy.

I accept the magnitude that Emi exudes in every aspect of his play, but I thought it was coming, like another Brentford.

You are right, possession is only one aspect of a game, and sometimes it is for possessions sake, but when you haven't got the ball, you can't affect the game and the frustration builds.....and it's like boxing, the body punches, rarely knock you out, but they wear you down.....and they wore us down.

1 hour ago, ThunderPower_14 said:

If Pep gets it over Unai for winning less than he did last year with a squad that is probably double ours in value, i'm not even sure what the point is of having the award.

we would need to know the criteria for winning it.....is it a points system? 

23 hours ago, MaVilla said:

Seriously, someone needs to make a list of all the records Emery has broken at Villa, i think i have lost count, but that aside, it would be nice to keep track for posterity.

I've got one.....we are in line to conceding more goals since, the 2019/20 season, where we finished 17th.

shut up!!!!!!!!!!! just kidding..................................i think.

On 27/04/2024 at 21:57, daggy_333 said:

Not really one to criticise Emery, however I feel he set us up far too defensively tonight.

I am not saying you are wrong, but just offering an alternative view.

When a team can't get the ball, for a numbers of reasons, there is a tendency to retreat.......whether its by design or not, it's a natural instinct.

I am unsure, where the blame lies.....other than the eye test and the stats tell us, we had 28-30% possession....that's unusual at home.....why I don't know.....but we didn't engage with them and stood off....some say maintaining our shape, ok I get that too.

but If you allow teams to dictate play, by not challenging them, or not going after them, you surrender the initiative and subsequently, their confidence grows......and if you do go after them, you have to win your share of duels.

In many cases,they then, overwhelm you with, pressure, until you crack.

I don't believe, Unai Emery was expecting that.....happy to criticise him, if it's warranted.....not sure its is.

I saw too many players off it.....and dining out on the 2 goal lead and Chelsea was having none of it......why? not sure.

In this league, you have to do many things, and competing is one......if you don't, and coast, or play in a passive manner, you are liable to get dumped on your rear.

All the teams, even the bottom ones......are willing to fight and scrap, and they can easily overcome a team, that don't fancy it......We have even seen it in domestic cup competitions.....superior talent, does not always bail you out, on its own.

5 minutes ago, est1874 said:

Well, you're not correct unfortunately if you're trying to claim that Unai's stylistic approach with us is purely pragmatic. It is his style of play. Clean sheets have never been his goal as a manager, his intention is always to outscore the opposition, which of course creates risk, but he likes that and is confident in his abilities and his team's abilities to "score one more".

His stats in La Liga before coming to us cost this out: despite winning a lot more games than he lost, his goals for to goals against were 654 : 488. Broken down as far as it can go, that's only a tiny fraction better than 4 : 3.

As I've said, Unai's style is always a risk reward calculation, and it's mostly been working for us (with a great goalkeeper between the posts, hence my original point).

Either way, if you're hoping for a scenario where we don't ship many goals, you'll be a long while hoping.

I simply think you are wrong.

What he has done in the past, with other clubs, is probably what he has had to do, the same as with us. He has been with us no time, so WIP is well and truly on.....I can almost Guarantee, he will have one eye on how many goals we have conceded and another on how we let teams back in from winning positions.....these will be on his agenda.

I can categorically tell you, we won't win the big prizes, having scant regard, for defending and I don't believe unai needs me to tell him......Unai is playing a way, right now, that gives him the best chance of winning, with the personnel he has......that's all he can do, so our style as you call it, will be borne out of that.

If you think we have to change our style, to concede less goals, I think you are wrong again...becoming more resilient, does not necessarily mean, compromising the scoring of goals.....That is not so.

If you trawl back through recent seasons, all the top 4 teams have a dedicated focus, on conceding few goals.....whilst scoring freely.

It's a fallacy to suggest, we can reach the heights Unai wants to reach, conceding heavily or in excess of 50 goals.....

I have every confidence he will be looking at shoring up our defence,( whole team) next season, without compromising, goals scored or our style of play.....The top 3 have proved this season alone, that attractive football can go hand in hand, with a tight defence....check out previous seasons.

What did Fergie say?....."Goals fill stadiums, Defences win trophies"

There is no compromise to be had....we just have to defend better, to achieve the top places.

2 minutes ago, ChicagoVillan1983 said:

Yep - perhaps we are addressing different points.
I am basically saying that if you have the best goalkeeper in the world, it will be difficult to adapt when he is not on the team. This is not an excuse but just an admission of reality. We can't afford to run a second-choice goalkeeper anywhere near as good (I only really see Arsenal doing that, albeit both of their keepers are far worse than Emi).

yeah, I get that, but it also shows how we have relied on him.......In contrast, Raya at Arsenal is ahead of Emi, for clean sheets......my point is, defences play a huge part in Goal keepers stats, and Emi deserves more protection imo.

maybe that's on the agenda, for the summer.

Emi is a huge reason of why we are 4th.

21 hours ago, KentVillan said:

Feel like replying to most of the threads in this forum with words to this effect. Memories are very short on here sometimes.

He’s played enough games this season in a top 4 side that he must be doing something right.

I do agree with others that on the eye test it often looks like there’s limited brain power going into some of those decisions, and his physique often seems to have more cosmetic than practical value.

But Emery wouldn’t keep starting him if he was as bad as some on here are claiming. I think he’s pretty solid for a 3rd choice CB at this stage in our development.

The problem position is RB not CB.

Get to the ground early, with your boots......you might get a game yourself.

I don't think he is at the level, for where we are going.....football IQ is suspect.

On 28/04/2024 at 13:47, The Fun Factory said:

Seems to be either a beast or a carthorse. I can't work the guy out.

What type of midfielder is he? or hasn't he determined that yet?

2 hours ago, ChicagoVillan1983 said:

I get it, it's just hard to say you have, literally, the best player in the world at GK and to not build around that. I understand it makes us massively weaker when he is not on the pitch, but I don't think the answer is to change our style of play in a manner that makes us more resilient when he is not on the pitch.

We'd be nowhere near 4th without him - NOWHERE. 

I think our style of play is a cop out.....we are WIP.....and his focus, is just on winning, each game.

He is playing the way he does, with the personnel he's got.

He just finds a way, he thinks he can win, with our squad.....which is remarkable.

I just simply do not, buy the idea, we will concede 5O odd goals in the league, by design and accept it.......sorry, he is more savvy than that.

Do you think, the top 3 have compromised their style, by conceding only 30 odd goals all season, and being in contention with us, with our attacking haul......that will not be lost on Unai.....and that's his challenge, when he says, "I want more".

19 minutes ago, est1874 said:

This is down to our style of play though and how Unai wants to set us up.

It's essentially one big risk / reward calculation, and it relies on a really strong GK at the back.

This is why the lack of a strong backup for Emi is such a concern - we cannot play the way we want to, with any confidence, unless he (or similar) is there. It's not possible.

So we either 1) need a quality backup GK much closer to Emi's level, which is a huge challenge, or 2) need a different way of playing football if/when he is not available... which Unai doesn't really want to do, as he doesn't want us compromising on our style.

I don't buy that, in the context you have presented it. Unai sets us up to win a game, with the personnel, at his disposal.....if that means just outscoring teams, that's where we are currently at.

I don't think for one second, Unai is happy with the amount of goals we have conceded this season, despite our offensive haul....He will not be happy on how we surrender leads so easily either, and I don't believe its how he wants us to play.....its just needs must, with what we have, personnel wise.

You only have to look at the places, he wants to go.....and see the goals against for those teams, while still competing with us on goals scored.....He wants to be doing that too.

We are WIP.....and the next stop on Una's journey, with us, is....tighten up. I will be amazed if he has no interest in doing that, because you simply cannot challenge for the top prizes, conceding the goals we do......both number and quality.

Some of the goals we concede are sloppy and avoidable.....and it's not always the back 4, its midfield too... we are wide open and too easy to play through, against certain teams.

I do believe, he will address it.....he's too intelligent not to.

17 minutes ago, Villatillidie95 said:

If we get top 4 then that sweet sweet cross into the box for digne’s winner against Luton from diaby will have a played a massive part 

yeah, all 50 Millions worth.....I'll bet Wes will light a cigar, in satisfaction.

On 27/04/2024 at 22:32, WooJung said:

Soft

sadly lIghtweight at present......his whole demeanor is full of melancholy, as opposed to Fire & Brimstone.....one way or another, you have to find some menace in your game to effect it, properly, and become a pest to opponents.....I don't see anything at the moment.....it must be a worry for the club, at such a high transfer fee.

The thing, I don't understand, is, he was reputed to be lightning quick.....and I don't see that, either.

Bailey was meant to be too, and I didn't really see it, with him.....folk said, Bailey's  injury may have nullified his pace?......but while he plays well at times, his pace is not blistering, like Barnes or Garnacho etc..

1 hour ago, bobzy said:

It's not that terrible.  Strangely, as well, he's played a comparatively large amount of games against the better sides:

Wins with Olsen in goal:  Spurs, Hibs (twice), Legia, Burnley
Draws with Olsen in goal:  Brentford, Chelsea
Losses with Olsen in goal:  Man City, Stevenage, Liverpool, Man Utd, Newcastle, Everton

He's not a great keeper, he won't be here after this season but he's not a completely hopeless guy in goal at all.  The drop off from Martinez to Olsen is big, but he's still good enough for us to beat, say, Brighton.  If we can't do that it'll be because the rest of the starting eleven haven't turned up rather than just Olsen.

I know the picture you are attempting to paint....but is it entirely fair?

I can think of other goal keepers in the league, where, those results, might have been the same.

Let's be fair, we have been spoilt with Emi as we was with Bozzie.

I think some of those losses, were as much the defence as a whole's issue.....not just Olsens.

The eye test tells me, we rely on the goalie too much at times.....who has saved us umpteen times, to get positive results.

This is certainly not a criticism of Emi, on the contrary.....but we have come to rely on him too much. imo.

I think when he is out, it's as much a indictment on our defence, as it is on Olsen.

Sure there is no comparison.....but defenders should be protecting, better than they do.

At the level we are at now, talented shooters will score from outside the box.....they have to be closed down, and challenged......The goalie should be the LAST line of defence, not the only line of defence, and Emi has saved us too often, for my comfort.

Emi is exceptional, and we have come to expect, too much imo......A goalkeeper as talented as Emi should be winning the clean sheets award, not Raya......that IMO is down to who is in front of them.

However...I will choose to say, why Goalies play out from the back with short passes directly in front of goal as opposed to playing to the side, I simply don't know......Raya was a perfect example of a donut, who nearly blew our away win( supporting Arsenal on the day)

Any feisty presser, can easily, create a turnover and score.....its an unnecessary risk imo.

I cringe when Emi does it too.

On 27/04/2024 at 23:38, sheepyvillian said:

That is the problem, he doesn't inspire confidence. If Emi hadn't gone off, I honestly believe we would have taken all three points. 

I am not so sure....The crucial stats were not for good reading, even before Emi's exit.....and my eye test on the night, suggested, they was gradually working their was back in to the game, without much resistance, even at us 2-0 up.... We have seen this before.

Chelsea was winning the possession battle all through the game.....and after their first goal, the inevitable was arriving.....Gallagher and Caceido had the freedom to dictate.

Look, they are entitled to an off night.....The season is not the issue, we all know it's been great....and we are hugely grateful....but I would be amazed, if that performance, (and the detail of it) does not resonate in Unai's mind, when he makes plans for the summer recruiting.

When Unai says "I  want more".....That is a euphemism alright.

On 27/04/2024 at 23:36, Jas10 said:

Bit of an unpleasant habit of many being overly critical and not appreciative enough of our players and what they have done during this season (at least, last season was excellent too! And we destroyed teams like Newcastle and Chelsea who some are claiming we struggle or can’t play well against). I think they deserve more credit and… yeah ok… loyalty… or backing/support.

The squad is suffering with fatigue and injuries… but we keep fighting - that’s BIG.

I completely agree with this btw… Dougie is amongst our very best players… let’s not forget that, how he’s done, how good he is and can be… can’t expect everyone to be at 100% in every game… the (work)load of this season, the amount and frequency of games, even the level of competition, is new to many of these players…

Apart from the Tim bit… he doesn’t seem ready or good enough yet… but we may not have much of a choice…

Sick to death of the injuries… we need a break… 

Jas, we have had an unbelievable season.....but we all went down to support the team against Chelsea, not expecting such a passive display, from the midfielders.

Not a man in the ground, would have expected a 28-30% possession Stat......On the night, it was poor.......and to be accurate, we would not have had the season we have had playing like that..... That performance was not reflective of the season as a whole, we all know that.

Some say, they are out on their feet....but it seems to some fans, we are better, with more momentum, when we play 3 games in a week, with a 3 day rest......so I am not sure, the mitigation put forward, about energy, is accurate......it could be, but events leave me, unsure.

We can only talk about the game, when it's a "Ratings and Reactions" thread....We all know how good Dougie has been, and we can all remember, back to before Kamara arrived....when he struggled with McGinn in the pivot, in some games.

Dougie is not a dedicated no 6 imo, and certain aspects of his game is highlighted, like staying on the ball, when we have feisty opponents, happy to challenge for the ball, with conviction....Dougie wants time, and he doesn't have it against teams like Chelsea.

He is to be applauded imo, for being deployed in a role, he always gets put in to, when the DCM gets injured or suspended....The fact we only have one experienced one, is a glaring issue in my book....and the long term injury to Kamara, has highlighted the plight.

Dougie is a wonderful player, when he is played in the role he is best suited too......I cringed a bit, when I knew he was playing in that game, because I suspected, what actually happened...he was overwhelmed.

I accept, that a number of players are playing in not necessarily their best position, due to injuries.....but,  personally, I feel some are struggling with not having a quality dedicated CDM to hold things together.....and give them ( the players with guile)a platform to play from.

We can all see how Rice, has given a platform to the Arsenal creative players, to concentrate on their job and we are all well aware of the miss City feel when Rodri is out..... Guimaraes has a similar effect with Newcastle.

....We need at least one more holder in the middle. I don't mean just a stopper.....I mean a quality, midfielder, who can attack and defend with equal aplomb.

20 hours ago, sharkyvilla said:

It's a shame Gerrard wasted £13m on Dendoncker, we could have got a half decent one for that price.  I'm sure Unai will rectify it in the summer, just need to squeak by for a few more matches.

I agree. It wasn't a prudent signing, was it.

18 hours ago, El Segundo said:

Chelsea outplayed, outfought and outthought us for the second time at VP this year.  On the way to the game I was hoping Emery had come up with a way to deal with their intensive man to man high press, also utilised effectively by Newcastle against us. Sadly he hadn’t.

We wanted too much time on the ball and they didn’t allow it.  Our pressing was feeble by comparison.

We were at our best when we moved it quickly and first time and played through them but we only did it a few times mainly because we couldn’t get the ball off them for large chunks of the game. 

And when we did they were very effective  at the high turnovers or else we gave up possession far too easily.  We ended up resorting to a kind of hoofball in the second half. 

I have no idea how we were even one up at half time let alone two.  At around 70 minutes, at 2-1, Chelsea were so dominant that loads of people around me were saying they’d take a draw.  We were lucky to get that in the end.

That Chelsea squad has the potential to be a real force next season.  I thought their close control passing, movement and pressing were outstanding.  Very impressed with Madueke in particular.  If they can replace two or three weak links – Mudryk who was awful, and Jackson who seems to specialise in missing sitters, perhaps upgrade their left back options – they will be back in the mix.

As for our lot, Tielemans was out best midfielder and it was a blow when he had to go off.  Rogers was good in patches.

Luiz is frustrating me – seems to want to stroll around at his own pace, doesn’t chase back enough to cover and seems to leave his brain at the door when he enters the pitch.   

Diego – another one who seems to favour brainless challenges in dangerous positions.  He was absolutely dire last night.   

Olsen – how anyone is blaming him is beyond me.  Did nothing wrong as far as I could see and made a brilliant save from Palmer.  Not his fault our defence decided to give Gallagher about ten minutes to pick his spot from the edge of our box or that Luiz decided to lose possession in a dangerous place.

Such an honest and accurate rendition.

spot on.

On 27/04/2024 at 22:23, striker said:

Said in the post match thread I'd be happy with a point.

After that second half performance I'm absolutely delighted.

Complete bottle jobs again with a two goal lead.

You simply cannot disappear against quality opposition and hope to win. Villa have still not learned the lesson from Man United and Brentford.

Will state again Villa were playing so much better without Luiz. He was awful and upsets Villa's rhythm going forward.

 

I think as another poster pointed out.....he thinks he has more time on the ball in the 6 role, than he has in the 8 role.....Dougie is not a 6, he has just been deployed there, through a lack of dedicated alternatives.

I wouldn't call it bottle jobs.....I would say, our only way to win games is primarily through attack, meaning we just have to score more than the opposition......We do not have sufficient personnel to consistently hold on to leads.

The games we have won, and won well, have been through attacking prowess.....We don't win ugly, because we can't.....we don't have the players for that.

when you are aiming high, like we are, you need a broader church of player profile....I am hoping in forthcoming windows we go some way to rectifying that.

When folk say, we are down to the bare bones, through injuries, it's not the complete story for me.....I think we have been lacking defensive IQ, Particularly in midfield, for quite some time....and in some games, it shows more than others.

On 27/04/2024 at 22:21, WallisFrizz said:

As much as everyone thinks we’ve bottled it. It feels different to the other times because we didn’t deserve to be 2-0 up in the first place. It wasn’t like Brentford where we played well and had a mad 9 minutes. We were rubbish for 90 but fortunately managed to get a couple of goals. I feel relieved we got the draw tbh.

What annoys me is that we don’t seem to have the ability to cope with these physical pressing teams, we don’t learn or adapt. 

I don't think we have the options in the squad for it..... we can't bring anyone on, to help with it, because they don't exist.

sure we have Tim, but is he ready for this level?

To just have Kamara.....is a weakness in the squad IMO

On 27/04/2024 at 22:14, bobzy said:

Man Utd just got incredibly lucky.

With Newcastle and Chelsea, it's the high-intensity press in the middle of the park.

it's not just the press. Its runners too.

We struggle to stop opponents running at us, one on one....The defensive IQ is lacking in midfield.