Smithy07

So, um, call me crazy but doesn't that mean that once more Norwich aren't actually entitled to any compensation from us? The phrase "my mutual consent" implies that some sort of agreement has been reached to enable them to terminate their contract so i suspect we have been paid something by Villa. Doubt we will all ever find out the details but wouldn;t think it will be a huge sum. Despite what many of you think I don;t think any Norwich fans (including Wiz) ever seriously thought that either of them would stay with us. Hughton has brought his own guys in and would not have wanted them around. Their ongoing employment with us was clearly just for the purposes of the negotiations ongoing behind the scene with Villa. Nobody knows what Karsa does but Culverhouse is key in the Lambert set up and Lambert acknowledges as much. Culverhouse takes virtually all the training and indeed for the first couple of years they were with us i understand Lambert used to go back to Scotland for 2-3 days a week to see his family so Cully pretty much ran things at the training ground. Similar approach to MON and his coaches in that regard. Anyway time to move on now. Hughton is impressing our end with his early actions and i can tell from here that you guys are pleased with Lambert. Will be interesting to see how the season pans out.

If Norwich have appointed other people to the same or incredibly similar roles, without identifying an additional workload (perhaps they are creating a B team in the Conference? ), Culverhouse and Karsa will have a very strong case against Norwich for 'constructive dismissal'. Knowing how most employment tribunals settle in favour of the employee, Norwich may end up paying out compensation to C & K. From recent experience, I have no confidence in McNully presenting the facts correctly; if C & K do join Villa, I'm sure he will claim a settlement was agreed and then leak a fictional amount to a local journo, knowing the BS will spread far and wide. By the time the season starts I'm expecting Wiz to be pointing us towards information that we've spent half of our annual income on gaining C & K's services. :winkold: I agree they will end up at Villa but for now they are leverage in the compensation battle hence the fact McNally has stated publically that they remain employed by us and will be accomodated as part of an expanded coaching set up. I don't think for one minute that Hughton will want them anywhere near Colney once training starts up in early July so I would think that might be when this little stand off (us trying to avoid giving them a legitimate reason to claim they have been sidelined and quit and them/Villa trying to avoid them having to quit as there will presumably b a notice period/gardening leave provision) comes to a head. Given that several people were so sure Lambert has this magical clause which enabled him to just tear up his contract and join you immediately for no compensation its interesting that the compensation saga is still rumbling on. Maybe its not so clean cut after all! All a bit sad it has to be this messy and seems to me all concerned could have handled it better and enabled all three to move across together for a reasonable compensation sum. If that was the case (that there was no clause), surely lil Norwich would have reported Big Bad Aston Villa to the Premier League by now? Maybe. I don't know who may have been reported to who but essentially its a contract dispute between Lambert and Norwich City. Presumably if compensation is agreed it goes away. If not then I guess we will await the outcome of any tribunal/hearing/case before deciding on any next steps. If we lost the hearing/case then clearly no point reporting anyone and vice versa. So therefore why do you feel Villa owe Norwich compensation? Also the case would be heard by the Premier League. Norwich could report it and still continue compensation talks. It has happened a fair bit in the past. The Premier League would have released a statement to say it was investigating the matter, as they have done on other cases. The fact there has been none of that leads me to think McNaive has tried to play a game and realises he has lost. The only tump cards he has are IC and GK. If he plays it wrong with them he could have them walk out and sue him for constructive dismissal. Well technically it would be Lambert but presumably Villa would cover it. Anyway I know how interesting most on here find it so lets not get into too much detail and wait and see how it plays out. Culverhouse is the one you really need. I don't think Karsa does much.

If Norwich have appointed other people to the same or incredibly similar roles, without identifying an additional workload (perhaps they are creating a B team in the Conference? ), Culverhouse and Karsa will have a very strong case against Norwich for 'constructive dismissal'. Knowing how most employment tribunals settle in favour of the employee, Norwich may end up paying out compensation to C & K. From recent experience, I have no confidence in McNully presenting the facts correctly; if C & K do join Villa, I'm sure he will claim a settlement was agreed and then leak a fictional amount to a local journo, knowing the BS will spread far and wide. By the time the season starts I'm expecting Wiz to be pointing us towards information that we've spent half of our annual income on gaining C & K's services. :winkold: I agree they will end up at Villa but for now they are leverage in the compensation battle hence the fact McNally has stated publically that they remain employed by us and will be accomodated as part of an expanded coaching set up. I don't think for one minute that Hughton will want them anywhere near Colney once training starts up in early July so I would think that might be when this little stand off (us trying to avoid giving them a legitimate reason to claim they have been sidelined and quit and them/Villa trying to avoid them having to quit as there will presumably b a notice period/gardening leave provision) comes to a head. Given that several people were so sure Lambert has this magical clause which enabled him to just tear up his contract and join you immediately for no compensation its interesting that the compensation saga is still rumbling on. Maybe its not so clean cut after all! All a bit sad it has to be this messy and seems to me all concerned could have handled it better and enabled all three to move across together for a reasonable compensation sum. If that was the case (that there was no clause), surely lil Norwich would have reported Big Bad Aston Villa to the Premier League by now? Maybe. I don't know who may have been reported to who but essentially its a contract dispute between Lambert and Norwich City. Presumably if compensation is agreed it goes away. If not then I guess we will await the outcome of any tribunal/hearing/case before deciding on any next steps. If we lost the hearing/case then clearly no point reporting anyone and vice versa.

If Norwich have appointed other people to the same or incredibly similar roles, without identifying an additional workload (perhaps they are creating a B team in the Conference? ), Culverhouse and Karsa will have a very strong case against Norwich for 'constructive dismissal'. Knowing how most employment tribunals settle in favour of the employee, Norwich may end up paying out compensation to C & K. From recent experience, I have no confidence in McNully presenting the facts correctly; if C & K do join Villa, I'm sure he will claim a settlement was agreed and then leak a fictional amount to a local journo, knowing the BS will spread far and wide. By the time the season starts I'm expecting Wiz to be pointing us towards information that we've spent half of our annual income on gaining C & K's services. :winkold: I agree they will end up at Villa but for now they are leverage in the compensation battle hence the fact McNally has stated publically that they remain employed by us and will be accomodated as part of an expanded coaching set up. I don't think for one minute that Hughton will want them anywhere near Colney once training starts up in early July so I would think that might be when this little stand off (us trying to avoid giving them a legitimate reason to claim they have been sidelined and quit and them/Villa trying to avoid them having to quit as there will presumably b a notice period/gardening leave provision) comes to a head. Given that several people were so sure Lambert has this magical clause which enabled him to just tear up his contract and join you immediately for no compensation its interesting that the compensation saga is still rumbling on. Maybe its not so clean cut after all! All a bit sad it has to be this messy and seems to me all concerned could have handled it better and enabled all three to move across together for a reasonable compensation sum.

Speaking as an outsider I think lambert ought to be able to get you back in the top ten next season without too much major surgery. Breaking into the top 7 or 8 might be harder but there was basically nothing between 9th and 16th in the premiership last season and Villa underperformed. The fact he's not Alex Macleish alone will be worth a few points due to the general uplift in the atmosphere. Lambert's not stupid and the ability to enhance his reputation through effecting a reasonably quick turnaround at Villa will be one of the main reasons he took the job. For those of you hoping for/expecting a good cup run though you may well be sorely disappointed. We did nothing in the cups under lambert and he often put out weakened teams. In fact last season he htrew away one of our best chances of getting to wembley for ages when in the last 16 he put out a weakened team and we lost at home to Leicester. He doesn't care about the Cup. Whether or not that changes with you remains to be seen of course.

No-one is seriously calling Villa a small club. I think most of us accept that Villa fall in the tier between us and the likes of Manchester United, Liverpool, Arsenal etc. Lets park the contract point and see what happens - I agree it a bit boring just thought it was a bit rich us being accused of being small time when you are trying to get out of paying anything. Re Culverhouse and Karsa no news our end but I think everyone (apart from a deluded few who think Culverhouse might stay) fully expects them to join up with lambert at some point over the summer once the whole compensation issue has been sorted out. I can't see that we would want them around since Hughton has brought in his own back room team and also given their closeness to Lambert. McNally's recent comments are clearly all with an eye on the ongoing negotiations/disagreements.

Surely a clause is a clause? No one party can go breaking the agreed clauses within a contract willy nilly? Any breaching of a clause within a contract is a fundamental breach and deeming it null and void? I also wouldnt be surprised if there was a clause to say that no clause can be broken... Id imagine a football manger would ensure his ass is covered by that, which shows as to why he was so confident in moving things forward with Aston Villa. A clause is a clause but not all breaches are fundamental breaches. In the co text of a football manager employed to manage a team there are probably very few breaches by the club that would qualify - possibly only failure to pay his wages! There may be other clauses in the contract which enable termination in HHS event of material breaches but it would bd very rare that these enabled immediate termination without the ability for either party to remedy the breach first. Anyway I'm sure Lambo/villa took legal advice and time will tell if it was correct but (even if the rumoured clause dies exist) i still dont think he was entitled to terminate his contract as claimed. It would not surprise me though if lambert/villa know that and settle this quietly before it sees a court, probably as part of any deal for Culverhouse.

Tayls - yes those circumstances being where there is a fundamental breach which goes to the heart of performance of the contract. Trent - we got permission to talk to Lambert. The dispute arose over the level of contribution and when it could not be agreed he quit but we always accepted we had to pay compensation. That said we were technically in the wrong and we rightly ended up paying out. As will you.

Sorry was watching the England game. Yes we took Lambert in not dissimilar circumstances but the dispute with Col U was over the amount of compensation due not whether it was ever payable. We were also a broke league 1 team at the time not a premiership giant like yourselves! Re the repudiatory breach point even if a clause exists and is in the terms Lambert/villa claim it would clearly not be a clause which is fundamental to or goes to the heart of the contract as between Norwich City and Lambert.

Let's wait and see shall we. If you believe that any breach of a contractual term (if indeed there was one) renders a contract void or terminated then I can see why you might think I have been "taken to the cleaners." I think you all need to take a look at the meaning of the term repudiatory breach.

That is allegedly what he/Aston Villa are claiming but: 1. Anyone who thinks he hadn't already spoken/lined things up with Villa before he quit is very naive. 2. I would be amazed if there was a clause which allowed him to speak with any other premier league club. Even if there was a clause along those lines then I have read that there is a dispute over the effect of the clause; and 3. Again even if there was such a clause breach of such a clause would almost certainly not just allow him to terminate his contract. If he has been properly advised he will know that as will Villa. You or he will have to pay one way or another. Faulkener and Lerner just end up looking like grubby cheapskates using these tactics. I have no problem with lambert leaving us to move to you - moves happen in football and it won't be the last time he moves clubs. I do, however, think it is unecessary and shows a lack of class for Villa/Lambert to seek to deny us compensation in these circumstances. Of course it would. It was the breaking of that term by McNally that allowed him to walk as he could claim his contract was void. Erm, no I think you will find it doesn't work like that.

That is allegedly what he/Aston Villa are claiming but: 1. Anyone who thinks he hadn't already spoken/lined things up with Villa before he quit is very naive. 2. I would be amazed if there was a clause which allowed him to speak with any other premier league club. Even if there was a clause along those lines then I have read that there is a dispute over the effect of the clause; and 3. Again even if there was such a clause breach of such a clause would almost certainly not just allow him to terminate his contract. If he has been properly advised he will know that as will Villa. You or he will have to pay one way or another. Faulkener and Lerner just end up looking like grubby cheapskates using these tactics. I have no problem with lambert leaving us to move to you - moves happen in football and it won't be the last time he moves clubs. I do, however, think it is unecessary and shows a lack of class for Villa/Lambert to seek to deny us compensation in these circumstances.

Norwich have become very bitter & small time,a shame really as they were a club I quite liked,they will get over it in time. With respect its a bit rich you calling us small time when massive Aston Villa are the ones trying to get out of paying compensation for taking our manager. Despite what many of you appear to have convinced yourselves Lambert can;t just rip up his contract and there will be compensation due. If you would just get on and agree it then i am sure Culverhouse and Karsa will be with you the next day as (again despite what many of you seem to think) we are under no illusions that they will eventually follow Lambert and that their current retention is anything other than linked to the compensation issue. You will need Culverhouse as he is apparently a great coach and he is the one who does all the day to day coaching. He is also apparently key in identifying transfer targets. Nobody knows what Karsa does. Have heard he is lambert's brother in law and he seems to find him a job wherever he goes but never seen any evidence of him actually doing anything. Anyway hopefully sense will soon prevail and it will all be sorted soon. We are actually all pretty happy at Hughton coming in and the start of a new chapter and I can tell from here that you are all delighted with lambert. You should be as he is an excellent manager.

Hi Smithy, welcome to the site. If that's the case, I reckon PL will resign. I'd be more than happy with PL or RM. He certainly wont resign if there are other potential candidates in the running. If there are not and he has a firm offer on the table then maybe (I genuinely don;t know if he would find the job sufficiently tempting). Don't forget though he has a contract - its not always quite as simple as just being able to resign and start up at a new club straight away!

I would be amazed if Mcnally's response to any Villa approach for lambert was anything other than **** off.

Smithy, welcome to the board. I have no love for Norwich due to my Suffolk roots. But you have written a very fair post. I just have a couple of questions for you if you wouldn't mind answering: 1) Is it true PL has a rolling 12 month contract? 2) Do you think he would resign his post to further his career, whether that be for Villa or somewhere else? 3) What is his playing style? Cheers 1. That is my understanding although nobody really knows too much about the finer details. My understanding is that there is always 12 months remaining. I presume the reason he signed a new one was that we gave him a pay rise not because the old one needed renewing. 2. He resigned from Colchester to join us so yes in theory if the offer was good enough. Mind you our chief exec and chairman would know all about that so i would be surprised if there was not a degree of protection in his contract to cater for the scenario. He also had the job in the bag before he did it as Col U let us talk to him the dispute was over compensation. Whilst i am sure some on here would disagree i also think he has a lot more to lose now as manager of a prem club, with a very secure job and a club with decent potential if we can stay up again this year. We will be debt free and looking to expand the ground as we have the fanbase to get bigger crowds. obviously I am biased but to me Col U to norwich was a no-brainer at the time. I don't think Norwich to Villa in the current circumstances is as easy a call. 3. I wouldn't say we have one playing style. he is pragmatic and tends to change the team/formation/style depending on who we are playing. We play some lovely passing stuff at times whereas in other games we have gone much more direct and physical. In general though we are pretty attacking and the one thing we don't tend to do is play for a draw hence the number of goals we let in last season. That said we did have chronic injury problems at CB for most of the season.

Norwich fan here. Have been following this thread with interest over the last few days due to the amount of speculation linking Lambert to the post. For what its worth I don;t quite share the confidence of Wiz that Lambert wouldn't take the Villa job if it was on the table, principally because he is hugely ambitious and I think he might see it as a potential stepping stone to one of the big 4 or 5 in due course. I have no doubt that is where he will end up at some point as he is a fantastic manager who has done far more than Martinez or Rodgers but is more low key media wise so doesn't get the same level of hype. That said he is in a great position at Norwich and may be reluctant to risk that for a job where he appears not to have been first choice and where Villa seem to have waited until other options have not come off before moving for him (if indeed they have). You will also have our chief executive to get past and he (and a couple of the other board members) are very hard nosed individuals. If we do receive an official approach it would not surprise me at all if it is simply turned down flat. Interesting times ahead.