skell

11 minutes ago, TomC said:

This is a fair point. The three new "big" signings (Ings/Buendia/Bailey) have been on the pitch together for 35 minutes, I think they said. Still, we were supposed to have depth to deal with these problems. And the problems are clearly more than injuries.

I said before that I'd give him until the end of the season unless he lost the dressing room or ended up in a relegation battle. We're headed towards the latter. I'm still not quite ready to pull the trigger. But he's running out of time to turn it around.

 

I agree completely. Let's not forget our south american travels, traore and Sanson (the depth). Its been stacked against us. Clearly we cant go on forever like this but let's see him with a fit squad

9 minutes ago, IrishVilla10 said:

Without a doubt? We’ve just lost 5 games on the spin and we’re 11 games. Were in a relegation battle, there’s a big chance we’ll be 17th by Monday. The thing is I doubt Dean knows what to do with his strongest 11. Our 2021 form proves that. 

Well, let's give him a chance.  He deserves that. 2021 has been all about Grealish and not having players available

25 minutes ago, Robtaylor200 said:

Hope your right, but the players you have mentioned have hardly been spectacular so far apart from fleeting glimpses 

That's the point isnt it. With all the injuries and interruptions they havent had chance to show what they can do. Specifically traore and bailey

48 minutes ago, Robtaylor200 said:

THIS for me. Mitigating circumstances are beginning to wear thin for me, (Mitigating circumstances are facts that do not excuse the  misconduct blah blah, but may show some  valid reasons for the actions taken) I think we are reading and listening to more mitigating circumstances after every match than what we actually did well for ourselves. The team and the staff seem to feel that everything is going against them at the moment. 

Well it wont change unless we make it change, I believe we need to get some discipline back into the squad No more Mr. Nice guy and protector 

Dean out and JT back as caretaker manager until a better replacement can be found 

True but he hasnt had chance to play anything near his first time. Pretty strong mitigating circumstances. Let him play Bailey buendia traore Watkins and things will improve

6 hours ago, Kiwivillan said:

Nonsense really. They won't stop the rest of our players giving the ball away

Doesnt mean we dont need one

17 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

I don't think it can - we need three proper midfielders in there - Buendia leaves us too lightweight and gives our opposition control of the game. 

At best we could maybe put Nakamba in for McGinn and try that, but we don't have a pair of defensive midfielders that can make it work.

 

 

Regardless, It is pretty obvious we need a big strong ball winning midfielder and it's something we have needed since we got promoted

22 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

Sanson's illness, however you look at it, does leave us with a difficulty.

We play with three central midfielders, two of whom are Luiz and McGinn - for me that much is absolutely concreted in no matter what system we build around it.

Nakamba is available to cover the deeper position and Ramsey is more than likely the third starter.

But without Sanson we're short on the bench and perhaps more pertinently we open ourselves up to the idiocy of trying to force Buendia into being a central midfielder.

Dean Smith seems keen to try to put him there and it patently doesn't work, either for the team, that becomes unbalanced; or the player, who is too lightweight for the position and looks a bit lost there.

Without another midfield option, the temptation sits there begging Dean to give it 'one more try'.

It doesn't work, it won't work, it's a bad idea.

Against Arsenal we started with Buendia in midfield and it was a colossal failure - Ramsey came on for 22 minutes and we were better for all of them - put Buendia in the middle of the park against Rice and Soucek and you're handing the game to West Ham.

I guess as a positive it opens up a spot on the bench for perhaps Iroegbanum, although I think it's more likely that we'd use Ashley Young in an emergecy, but it really concerns me that if things aren't going our way in the game we'll end up adding whichever forward gets dropped from the bench and taking out a midfielder for Buendia.

I think again, it puts a bit of light on the most important part of our season so far - the moment where Ward-Prowse decided to stay at Southampton - we're one short to start with and if we've got one misbehaving then, like Matty Cash's hair, we're very thin in the middle.

 

 

Yes but there is a big difference between buendia being the only focal point in a 5 32 and buendia being one of 4 gifted attacking players , albeit with defensive responsibilities  . I think 433 with luiz McGinn buendia could work

Just now, TRO said:

I think the better wingers have players behind them they can trust to win the ball back, when they lose it.....subsequently, they don't lose it,as often.

Absolutely.  We are not far off. 

12 minutes ago, Philosopher said:

Not sure about that. For the problem remains getting the ball out of defense. Now you could have Jack dropping deep the pick the ball up, but then you have him deeper than you'd like. Basically if Jack got injured you'd still have a problem keeping the ball and playing out of defense, particularly if your wingers are pacy direct types. All you need to do is drop deep give no space in behind, and the attack is nullified if Jack is out. What you'd have to do if Jack got injured is drop Watkins and play Wesley or Davis, but that is hard to do.

The passing needs work. It would also still be a little vulnerable to teams like Burnley who his longs balls to two big men up top.

Also, if.Jack is.out we play mcginn there.  Anyway, who these 2.great wingers are I have no idea but I'm.sure it would alleviate the problem

7 minutes ago, Philosopher said:

Not sure about that. For the problem remains getting the ball out of defense. Now you could have Jack dropping deep the pick the ball up, but then you have him deeper than you'd like. Basically if Jack got injured you'd still have a problem keeping the ball and playing out of defense, particularly if your wingers are pacy direct types. All you need to do is drop deep give no space in behind, and the attack is nullified if Jack is out. What you'd have to do if Jack got injured is drop Watkins and play Wesley or Davis, but that is hard to do.

The passing needs work. It would also still be a little vulnerable to teams like Burnley who his longs balls to two big men up top.

One of the problems is that go back too often and play it safe. This compounds the issue we have playing out. The better wingers point means we will be on the front foot more and have more world.an 'out ball'  and instead of.playing backwards we go forwards. Ultimately we would have to play it.our of.defence about 20 times less a game. Of course having grealish to take it.off a defender practically solves.the problem. We.just need.better players

12 minutes ago, TRO said:

Its all about opinions.

I think you are right, he has improved the defence, in the context of the back 5......Has he improved the defensive capability of the Midfield?, I would have to leave a question mark over that....but I do believe, despite some stupid individual errors our back 5 has been instrumental in us securing many of the points that we have.

If you look at how Luiz improved at the end of.last year then yes he has improved players. The fact he wanted to sign Phillips means that he saw this as area to improve. We.need to buy someone . You cant coach nakamba to be a top player

48 minutes ago, Philosopher said:

If we play a counter long ball we need to play Davis or Wesley with Watkins and two combative types in midfield, Nakamba sitting and McGinn just in front of him, with hardworking wingers will work.

We lack a quality specialist destroyer type defensive midfielder (who can pass). Apart from Nakamba who isn't really good enough to be more than back up the rest of our midfielders are 8's. we have 4 8's which is a good number for 4-3-3, not so good for 4-2-3-1.

The way we use 4-2-3-1 is unorthodox. This is because a 4-2-3-1 is meant to give attacking freedom to the fullbacks. However our preferred 2 are 8's so we keep the fullbacks more like traditional fullbacks (rather than modern attacking fullbacks) so the two 6's (who are 8's really) can take it in turns to break forward as needed.

The problem with this Is the fullbacks in this formation are supposed to play as wing backs and offer an outlet wide so the wingers can play very narrow and be close to the striker. Instead our wingers have to stay wide and our striker gets isolated. Our 10 is constantly tracking back because we defend deep and invite teams on to us meaning he isn't getting close enough to the striker either. 

These problems are all manifested because we can't play our way past the high press so we are forced to play long more than we want, end up defending deeper than we want, and so isolating the wingers as well as the striker.

Our defensive play very pragmatic. Safety first for the most part. Many times we clear it instead trying to play it. This invites more pressure if our opponents are first to the loose ball. The mentality in our country is playing around at the back is too risky, but just clearing it is just as risky. Many of Liverpool's best chances came from them winning cleared balls in our own half. Just like the winner. It's simply are the players good enough, and coached well enough to play out. Ours aren't, and the midfielders aren't really ball winners either so clear it or play it we aren't really suitable.

Watch Man City, how easy they make playing out look. Press them high and they kill you as they cut right through the high press and then force opponents to go one for one as their widemen are left in no man's land and can't support their fullback. But they have the quality.

This is why Konsa wasn't picked for England the other day. He plays safety first. Last season he got caught trying to play the ball, this season he has simplified his game and focuses on not getting beat and not making mistakes. I agree with this as he is still developing. However he was touted as a modern ball playing cb when he joined and I believe he needs to add that element of risk back into his game next season, and we will be better off for it. 

The fullback tactics is simply because Targett is slow and Cash is new to Premier league football. With a quality pacy left back and letting Cash and Konsa off the leash a bit then we can elevate our passing and movement out of defense and this will help our midfield immensely and they get more space to play in and don't have spend most of their efforts on trying to win seconds balls.

A tall DM that is a destroyer and a passer will help us to play both ways. As cleared balls are after aerial balls so the winning those ball become more likely with an aerial presence and long balls against us will also be less effective. Passing from deep require and slighty different mindset and passing style. Short passes have to be safe passes, in one twos you are the pivot rather than the mover, then you are required to switch the play from one side to the other rather than looking to pass forward at every opportunity. A no 8 looks for the forward pass first (winger or striker) than to the fullback on his side or inside to the other 8 or 6. When they are one two's they are doing the give and go particularly in central areas (rather than being the pivot). 

Jack makes the 4-2-3-1 work purely because of A the space he creates for the 10. B the threat he pose means teams keep the RB back and tight to him. C his ability to carry the ball out his own half at pace and find a pass. Then he carry the play in the opposition third as he pops up all over the place pulling defenders here and there, play little no look passes and sudden burst of pace and give and goes. All of the creative onus he carries, put he is our only other defensive outlet other than the long ball to Watkins.

The whole tactical setup going forward is reliant on Jack. Without him we are literally one dimensional (hit it long to Watkins). El-Ghazi and Traore are missing a major trick in being poor headers of the ball. Both 6 footers, if we could hit long to them also we could make the long ball game work, they would also nearly double their goal output. Ronaldo added heading to his list of strengths and scored loads with his head. The perfect example of a 6 foot winger developing his heading and becoming a beast.

So I have waffled on too much!!

 

I love this post and it is spot on

 We.absolutely need a dominant midfielder, we have for 3 years. This would clearly help massivley. However, I'm going to simplify your post because I believe that having 2 quality wingers would mean that all the above problems would be solved.

Basically, quite rightly no one (players or fans) has confidence in elghazi or trez.or.traore. If we had 2 quality players in these positions and Grealish as a 10 it would allow these players to receive the ball,  retain the ball and make.something happen. The full backs would push on with confidence. We would attack with purpose. The problem would be solved.

3 hours ago, flashingqwerty said:

Starting 11 was poor, most of the subs were poor, tactics were poor, most individual performances poor .

Our best cm pulled off when mcginn and luiz were anonymous most of the game.

All things point to a manager who has so little tactical ability and is completely out of his depth.

Shambolic and schoolboy level

Starting 11 good. The problem is that the players arent good enough. Compare salah to trez

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I'll bet Dean wished he knew.

We had grealish

3 hours ago, jacketspuds said:

Martinez is a CL quality goalkeeper. So pleased we've got him.

Watkins pushed hard and did well for his goal.

The midfield needs so much and our wingers are shit.

Mings is not a leader either. Konsa is head and shoulders our best CB now.

Mings is absolutely a.leader. agreed our wingers are poor 

3 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

a poor game that was pretty much a non event.

I can’t even pick a man of the match it was so nondescript , smith has his work cut out in the summer 

wrong formation and team again 

Right formation. Right team. What's the alterantive

40 minutes ago, thunderball said:

Reading this I think there is a bit of an over-reaction again. Yes it’s disappointing. We got our mojo back first half, looked bright, interchanges crisp and instinctive, defensive formation was very, very good, created a few decent chances.

Barkley failed to assert himself in a half where everyone was struggling to move and string passes together, we kept looking for the long outlet for Watkins down the LHS but it was scruffy at best, I can’t blame Barkley as the game was gone for us as a team by then, but he didn’t seize the chance to impose himself on the game.

Martinez is awesome. Watkins is a really very good player, we have a real gem there, his all round game, balance, technical ability and physicality is top drawer, if he adds more goals he is a very coveted forward at this level, amongst the best. Mings and Konsa awesome tonight, loved Mings acceleration and robust clearance to snuff out Neto.

Targett’s early distribution was poor but he picked up and is one of our best players nowadays, for me he is one of the best full backs in the division: always wanting, very good defensively now, and transitions into a midfielder/winger very well. He has clever feet and is quick of thought too,I can see him in an England shirt this year.

McGinn getting back to his busy best; Sanson looks useful, just needs more time with his new team mates. Trez was very busy bless him.

We miss jack, the team is set up to exploit him and we miss his magic and inventiveness, all our movement and threat comes from his unorthodox play at heart of our mixer. Barkley is definitely one who plays well with him as they both have that X-factor, except Jack is a 10X-factor.

Gives me hope for next season, another quality forward and an upgrade on Trez would make a big difference.

This is it. We are not far away. We.need a direct winger and another striker and a ball winning midfielder.   Anyone with pace who can get past a.man. harrison? Daniel James.not the best but attainable?

1 hour ago, PaulC said:

Why does he get a free ride on here. People having a go at Barkley and he was poor when he came on but what exactly did Traore do all game. One cross in the first half. 

Barkley, Luiz and Traore awful tonight

1 hour ago, pacbuddies said:

A pathetic performance. No Jack = Smith clueless.

Ridiculous.  We have no other options

1 hour ago, PieFacE said:

Poor. But could have easily won that. Things just not clicking for us going forward.

The question is why. We obviously lack someone who can beat a man for skill or pace

1 hour ago, AntrimBlack said:

Ramsey and Sanson on for Barkley and McGinn. Bad mistake to loan Guilbert out as Elmohamady is past it.

El Ghazi and especially `Trezeguet' are not good enough. We need to buy wingers in the upcoming window.

With no Grealish, this was Berkley's chance to show what he can do, and he did very little. A bit much to throw a strop when your performance has been poor. Petulant bastard, proper diva, send him back and sign someone who gives a shit.

McGinn's shooting is deplorable. 

Traore MOM for me. He is tricky and unpredictable with an eye for goal. I like him.

A very disjointed performance. In the end I was relieved to only lose by one goal; after their second, I thought we were going to get a pasting. There will be days like this.

Grealish is the glue that holds the team together. We must bring in more quality. We cannot be reliant on one player.

We will probably finish top half and that will be excellent. We are still building. Patience is the watchword.

Most accurate post I've read all day.  On all accounts.   Personally I think we need a strong defensive midfielder and a striker or winger . Invest well in this area we should improve massively.

9 minutes ago, flashingqwerty said:

Thats the thing though isnt it?  Its not a hunch.  Plenty of quotes from DS, Purslow and others stating that transfers are decided by the transfer team and DS has no more input than anyone else.  Same for the Shakespeare appointment.

I get the transfer team part. That's why DS did so well last year, despite the playing staff he had.  Your Shakespeare comment doesnt make.any sense. Of.course it was.smiths choice. It seems to me that if Smith does.badly it's his fault , if he does well its the others . Anyway I'm drawing this to a close. For the record I was blaming smith for the poor team selection today. Not anyone else, why? Because hes the boss

23 minutes ago, flashingqwerty said:

You saying Smith made the decisions carries no more weight than me saying he didn't.

Plenty of quotes out there from the board indicating that transfers are made by the transfer team of which Smith is a part.

Also quotes stating that Shakespeare was identified to resolve issues with our playing style, and not from Smith.

Theres evidence enough out there to show Smith isn't making all the decisions, but if you want to ignore them thats up to you.

Do you honestly think another manager couldn't have done a better job with the same money?

The fact hes boss should carry weight. It's just a hunch of yours that he doesnt make the calls. Under his stewardship we have been promoted,  survived, now challenging for europe.  All you need to do.is watch Smith on the sidelines to u understand who is the boss. Your

1 hour ago, flashingqwerty said:

I think hes not great, and i see no improvement in him.

The team has improved, but is that necessarily down to him or the money thats been spent and the addition of Shakespeare to the coaching team?

We'll never know.

To answer your question, top half finish, and i'd give him more time.  Failure to achieve that, and he should be replaced.

He brought in the players and deserves credit for doing so.   All these decisions have been made by Smith, you clearly have a vendetta. Most Vila fans would have snapped your hand off at 13 th and upwards