WakefieldVillan

2 hours ago, TRO said:

I think your last line, is unfair, no one thinks that.

we knew going up that most teams were better than us.....We also knew that, when we entered the European cup in '82......but we defied it, through work rate, application and self belief.....our players were not necessarily better than theirs, individually, but collectively, we were a team that ground stuff out, we negated opposing teams threats......that comes from the training ground and coaching direction....it comes from organisation and method.

It is clear, we have come up short and the writing has been on the wall for some time....the tell tale signs have been there.

folk can grapple with the reasons why....but in my experience, it comes back to the manager....directly or indirectly, he has to take the responsibility.....if he has issues above he needs the balls to challenge them.

Sorry the comment was a bit tongue in cheek. It was aimed at the facebook/twitter comments as opposed to fans on here. 

We were always going to lose a lot more games than we were going to win, I think some fans think we have a right to win every game cos we are ASTON VILLA.

But you're right, things need to improve, will be sad to see us drop down a division and have to re-build again - though I think were in a better position as a club all round I still want us competing with the elite.

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I expected us to close down with the same tenacity as they did......I have expected that all season and I have not seen it.

Their defensive capability in midfield of winning most headers and denying us the oxygen to breathe, by stifleing our touch, to start attacks.....it eventually drains the belief out of you......we were once again outpointed, using boxing terms......we have stopped the knock downs, but our ring craft, is just not there....so we just hang in there, creating nothing.

We have drifted in to this gradually and it has got incrementally worse.....we have just not got the nous to reverse it.

This is a management team who have lost the belief of the players and vice versa.

I agree with all this

Don't get me wrong I wasn't stating that this was a good performance or that we shouldn't be doing better, it's evident for all to see that we can and should be performing better than we are.

I just think we came up against a very well drilled side today that was also physically fitter and stronger. 

There is obviously going to be concerns from the manager and our players when we find ourselves in the vulnerable position that we are and the form we are in. 

The bottom line when all said and done is we would all have accepted a 17th place finish at the end of the season. We are joint 17th on GD with 6 games to go so still in with a fight but I think some of our fans think we should be fighting for Europe! 

37 minutes ago, pacbuddies said:

We don't beat the shitter teams either and Wolves hardly had any chances today. How many saves did Nyland make?

I thought the problem was we don't beat sides from the top 6 ? 

End of day we are where we are because we haven't won enough games whether that be teams against the top, middle or bottom.

Nyland I think had one save to make, which is a positive that we are not conceding 20+ chances per game like we had been doing.

The problem with the defensive improvements seems to be detrimental to our attacking play. Today we were totally nullified by the Wolves defensive unit.

If we had took a point today (not behind all realms have possibility based on possession/chances) I think this thread would be a lot more positive. 

29 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said:

Trouble is, we can say that every game.

 

We can mate, but I don't. I thought Chelsea and Newcastle were poor performances. This wasn't great but I just think they have better players and a better manager currently, and today it showed. 

19 minutes ago, chips'ngravy said:

I guess we all see the game differently but I'm struggling to see how you think we could have easily got a point. Didn't trouble their keeper the whole match and our strikers were a world away from looking like a goal threat. Wolves played well within themselves. 

Likewise, given the above...how does that convince you we would've beaten Sheff Utd and Newcastle? We created nothing.

Fair dos. I just think there were minimal chances in the game as a whole and could quite easily have seen it fizzling out into a 0-0. Don't get me wrong, we created next to nothing but I thought we looked pretty solid compared to pre-lockdown.

I was very impressed with Wolves to be honest, I think the team selection and formation wasn't bad and might have brought more joy against a lesser side in Newcastle and what looks to be a real out-of-sorts team in Sheff Utd.

1 minute ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

It's astounding that anyone can defend this, absolutely mind blowing.

What did you expect today ? To win 4-0, lads spraying ball about Barca-esgue? Sometimes you just have to put your hands up and say we lost to a better team. Today was that day. 

1 minute ago, chips'ngravy said:

That's me done for the season. I refuse to put myself through that kind of performance again. It was painful.

So much for supporting through thick and thin

Never looked like scoring but could have quite easily got a point. 

Thought we were ok first half (without creating) but ultimately they were simply too good for us.

To be honest not annoyed with Smith for today, we play with that line up against Sheff U and Newcastle and I think we would be 4 points better off.

We are where we are, Wolves are where they are, miles ahead of us. Liverpool and Man U next, not looking good. 

Luiz MOTM. 

Will be a tough game regardless, but I am extremely happy with that team and Smith has made the right calls for me, both wingers dropped for not performing and to be fair McGinn has looked goosed.

We might lose 0-3 but least he's trying something different. Come on you Villllla boys! 

42 minutes ago, imavillan said:

As the old 80's/90's song goes

What a 'fookin shithole''

I just tagged my liverpool "supporting" mate in this (he's probably been less than double figures) and typed "SH1THOLE"

Immediately got one back from a lovable scouser - "SH!THOUSE" haha

I hate their club and I hate their fans. 

Always loved Rodriguez 

2 minutes ago, av1 said:

                           Keeper

        Konsa.       Mings.       Hause

 

Elmo.          Luis.    Nakamba.     Targett

                            Jack

                  Davis.        Samatta 

 

Had to be the way forward. 

 

 

 

 

I agree that this is better than what we had out there tonight but the problem for me when we play the 3 and someone like Elmo we more often than not end up with a back 5 (especially against better teams) & not sure the players are totally comfortable with it either. That said it keeps El Ghazi out who regularly under performs and Trez who is just terrible

Another solid game, fair play, looks the most fired up of all our players! 

We all know what a massive influence he can be but boy are we carrying him at the moment - the question is "how long do we carry him for?!" 

If we stay up I think it will be a case of other teams being 'more sh1t' than us rather than any blistering form on our part.

Moving forward for the rest of the season I would line up like this;

                           Nyland 

Elmo/Fred Konsa/Engels Mings Targett

                              Luiz

        Grealish   Nakamba   Conor/McGinn

                     Davis       Samatta 

It's been said all season but our wide players are simply not good enough, I wouldn't start either of them for rest of season, "impact" subs at best. 

Norwich could have a huge impact on where we finish with still having to play Brighton, Watford and West Ham hopefully they are still in with a 'minute' chance of staying up when playing those games.

36 minutes ago, cb_82 said:

im guessing smith will pick

 

nyland

guilbert mings hause targett

luiz grealish nakamba

trezeguet samatta jota

I'm guessing you will be wrong 

13 minutes ago, rodders0223 said:

1. He will swap Trezegeut for McGinn.

2. He will bring in Elmo and drop out Hause

3. He will go 4-4-2 narrow with Nakamba and Jack and will go 2 up top.

Going two up top, the last act of a man who has run out of ideas. I suspect he has and if the above happens it confirms it.

1. The only way that happens is if Trezeguet comes in for El Ghazi, we stick to a 4-3-3 and (probably) Nakamba comes in for McGinn. If Trezeguet comes in it won't be a like for like swap with McGinn. But I can't see either way Trez starting or McGinn being dropped (despite looking lethargic since his return).

2. Possibly, but I don't think it would be the worst decision in the world. Hause as done OK, Elmo usually does OK. If we stick as a back 4 then it's hardly nonsensical to put a natural right back in at right back. But hopefully Guilbert is fit as he is quicker than Elmo and IMO be better suited to this game. He would also, (again IMO), be better suited as a wing back in a 3-5-2 - Which would probably mean Hause retains his place anyway.

3. Not sure if you are insinuating he will play Nakamba and Grealish as a central midfield pair but I am very confident that wont happen. No way Luiz will not play given he has probably been our best player overall since the return. I think most fans are wanting us to play two up top so again this wouldn't scream out to me as a manager who has run out of ideas, I think majority would be happy that he's mixed it up.

1 hour ago, MrBlack said:

It wasn't hindsight to know that Conor would not be an asset against a team like Chelsea that dominates the ball.  Nakamba was the right choice to start and anyone with a footballing  brain should have known that.

Aside from the decision to play him,  the decisions to keep him on the pitch after we took the lead undeservedly, and after we conceded a goal, were even more bewildering. We were being massively overrun thanks to Conors passive play.  Admittedly on this occasion,  McGinn was having a mare too,  but I am truly lost when it comes to justifying Smith's decisions against Chelsea.

It sets up an issue that the game Conor  should possibly start in (Newcastle) comes off a poor performance and result that will impact his confidence. 

Ok maybe hindsight wasn't the correct choice of word to use. I think as a general consensus no one would ever pick Conor against teams that are going to see a lot of the ball against us and I agree with your comment above 

Only playing devils advocate in suggesting Smith's reasoning to start him was probably due to his performance last time out and maybe he didn't take him off because (as you say) McGinn was also having a bit of a mare. But I am with you totally, we were lucky to be 1-0 up at HT and he should have changed it there and then because it was all to obvious what was going to happen.

I get the confidence thing - but then if he plays well against Sheff U (he did) then gets dropped against the bigger sides (Chelsea) then that's also going to dent is confidence too.

Bottom line for me is Smith has to take part responsibility for what happened but Conor has to take the majority of the blame - he let the gaffer down with that performance big time. But to be fair he wasn't the only one.

3 hours ago, villalad21 said:

Conor could be effective against Newcastle.

They are the type of team that will sit back and let you have the ball.

Well back in November when we beat them 2-0 he got the opener (no surprise from a set-piece) and behind Grealish (shock) he was the best player on the park so arguably you could be right.

If we're going on his performance against Chelsea though, no way should he keep his shirt. But that's the thing with Conor and most of our midfielders, they have 1 good game in about 7.

In hindsight he shouldn't have played against Chelsea (should have been Nakamba) but I think Smith saw a decent performance against the blades and thought he deserved to start next time out - I actually agreed. We were BOTH wrong.

I would go for the following (if Guilbert is fit);        

                        Nyland

 Guilbert    Konsa  Mings   Targett

          Luiz   Nakamba  McGinn          

                      Grealish       

               Samatta      Davis

Subs; Reina, Elmo, Taylor, Hause, Hourihane, Jota, Trezeguet, El Ghazi, Vassilev

Need every one of them up for it right from kick off, they have had two games under their belt now and should be feeling fitter by each day, no crowd in this one should definitely work in our favour, we need to press high from the front and not give them f*****s an inch.

Get the ball down, get it to feet, pass and move, get Jack on the ball and lets dominate possession. We need it much more than they do, let's show it. We need to press as a team and defend as a team and we need Konsa and Mings to be switched on for the full 90 - they have serious pace up front and if we stop that threat we have a great chance. Time for Super John McGinn to find some form too - if he's knackered after 60 bring Jack back and bang Jota in the hole - yes he's a lightweight mother f***** but he can play a bit and to be honest the fact he hasn't played is the only reason why I'd bring him on - because the likes of AEG and Trez are constantly failing to perform.

Prediction - Newcastle 1 v 3 Villa 

UTV

To be fair that was pretty abysmal. No fight, no bottle, no tactics, we made it very easy for them. We defended 'ok' for long periods but the problem we have is that we defend so deep that we just couldn't get out. At all. It was embarrassing at times. And whilst a lot of the play was in front of us, there was only ever really going to be one winner, even when we were 1-0 up. 

I can take defeats, I mean, we're all used to them by now but the manner of this one was painful to watch. 

Let's be truthful though, not one of our players gets in their starting eleven. Possibly Jack. But not on days like today. So it was never going to be easy, but I think Dean was hoping off the back of a clean sheet to sit in more and not get cut apart which I can see why, but ultimately when it doesn't go to plan he has to take full responsibility.

McGinn looks knackered and we need him big time to get back to something like his best or we will be playing Championship football next season for sure. 

Only Luiz really came out of that with any real degree of praise. He played well. The problem is we need eleven players on form not one. 

I think we need to take a look at finishing the season with another formation. Even if it leaves us a little open. Just go out and play and try outscore our opponent.

Either 3-5-2 or 4-4-2 diamond. Get Jack central and get him on the ball. Samatta and Davis up top. I'm not even bothered if we just play long balls, it's got to a stage where we just need to win football matches and at the moment we don't look like we even believe we can. 

UTV 

4 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Yea our team is not great

 Chelsea clearly feel confident as they leaving out their big players like tammy willian etc.

He's in the starting line up

Correct team for me but looking at their side it's going to be tough. All I ask for is 110% effort, desire, fight, bit more quality and no mistakes and what will be, will be - no pressure then! 

There's an argument for Elmo in at RB but I think that bit of pace with Konsa may help against the likes of Willian and co.

As for the argument of Davis starting = no goals is ridiculous. He's obviously in there as a focal point and to bring others into play and give us more possession. Samatta will get his chance and may be the more likelier scorer of the two but I can see totally why Davis would get the nod and we would stick with the one up top (especially against a side like this)

9 minutes ago, Robtaylor200 said:

For me, he didn't show as much as I hoped. Great when a shot is on or for a free kick. But goes missing for long periods 

I think very often the above would be a description of a standard Conor performance. But he played pretty well on Wednesday picking up second balls and keeping the ball moving (helped by Davis' hold up play) and his set-pieces were ok too, he looked more hungrier than I've seen before. Starts for me. 

15 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Agree. But Maupay chose Brighton and Brentford wouldn’t sell Benzama for 20M. Yes in hindsight we should have done whatever it took to sign them both but it would have been risky spending more than a third of our budget on them. 

Yep. Totally agree