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magnkarl

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Posts posted by magnkarl

  1. 8 hours ago, Chindie said:

    There isn't a deal that Israel will accept, without Washington forcing them to, that is less than everyone that ever thought Hamas was alright standing in the desert on a big target and no further demands. 

    They want to eradicate Palestine. They want their god given sea front property and they'll have the West Bank too.

    As far as I gather the proposed deal doesn't include the hostages. Again.

    I know several countries who would not accept a cease fire unless their citizens were safe, including the one you and I live in. I don't even think we'd negotiate with terrorists. It's the same deal that Egypt and Qatar tried earlier in the year, and are now rehashing to try to put pressure on Israel even though Hamas have sent hundreds of rockets out of Rafah in the last days towards aid convoys, civilians and crossings.

    If Egypt had any mettle in these negotiations they'd stop Hamas from giving Israel's war-crime fellowship a reason to go into Rafah, instead we're at exactly the same place as last time where the so called friends of Palestine in the Middle-East do f-all except for posturing and then feigning outrage when Israel responds to Hamas attacks within another Gaza city.

    This could have been over months ago if Hamas had escaped the area through one of the hundreds of tunnels they have going out of Gaza to wherever their leadership are. But that would be too easy wouldn't it, have to squeeze that last bit of anger out of people by using the last city in Gaza full of civilians as shields and then wait for the expected Israeli response.

    Both sides can go ¤#% themselves, the UN and the countries around Gaza can also do one. Civilians are being used as pawns in Iran and Israel's war, with what seems like flagrant disregard for their well-being from their so called leadership in the West Bank and Gaza who could've ended this months ago if they wanted to.

    • Like 2
  2. 1 hour ago, chrisp65 said:

    ‘Normal students, keeping flags safe’, ffs.

    Yes, yes, some children and journalists have been accidentally shot, some in the back of the head whilst running away. Yes yes the water was cut off and the tents were bombed. But hell, that’s a flag and there is a line you don’t cross Abdul.

    Yes, because what they’re doing at the moment is working out great, isn’t it? Free speech only counts when it is one side speaking. It’s turning into a monster where the people who initially protested have been replaced by racist thugs occupying and vandalising private property, all in the name of human rights of course, not due to some people just liking a good riot.

  3. Considering the 'protests' at some college campuses in the US have now started becoming an America hate-fest where the protesters take down American flags, burn them and hang up Palestinian flags I don't see how long they'll continue. I think it was on Bill Maher the other day where someone went around one of the tent camps outside Colombia and asked people if they were a student, 1/10 of them were. It seems a bit like the new excuse to riot and occupy, and unless something happens in Rafah I don't see how Israel will continue the killing spree they had initially. International pressure has helped for sure.

    So, to remedy the issue around non-students taking over universities and keeping students out 'frat boys' and normal students who want to celebrate their education finishing soon have taken to counter-protesting and keeping flags and property safe. The people who were 'students for Gaza' quickly disappeared when challenged by other people than police. I wonder how much of this is fueled by social media.

    Coincidentally the building that was occupied at Columbia was completely trashed by the 'protesters'. Time to look at the funding especially from Qatar to colleges in the US, I don't think it's a coincidence that it's the colleges with the most money received by the same people who support Hamas who have had the worst riots and vandalism.

    Or here, people using their kids for some lovely protesting at one of the same camps in Sydney (yeah I know Sky Australia).

    I'm afraid the cause is being marred by what seems to be a rather large minority of idiots who don't understand how they are coming across, or simply don't care.

  4. Kerem Shalom is one of the places where Humanitarian aid is brought in.

    Linky

     

    Quote

    Several people were injured Sunday and sent to the hospital after approximately 10 "projectile launches" crossed from an area adjacent to the Rafah crossing toward Kerem Shalom on Sunday, the Israel Defense Forces said.

    The Kerem Shalom crossing is now closed to humanitarian aid trucks, the IDF said.

    According to the IDF, Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

    -ABC News' Jordana Miller

    Three Israeli Soldiers Killed in Rocket Attack Claimed by Hamas

    Quote

    The Israeli military said that about 14 rockets and mortars were fired toward Kerem Shalom, a conduit for aid into Gaza. Three other soldiers were badly wounded.

    Geo-located right inside Rafah. Fired from within the same population which still majorly supports the people that is contributing to this bloodshed and giving Israel cause to shut down humanitarian crossings. 

    I wonder why they're even entertaining Hamas at the negotiations in Egypt.

  5. 30 minutes ago, Jareth said:

    It's not one or the other, solve the religious wars and you solve an awful lot. 

    While the guise for Benny is religious, this war is obviously not about religion. It's about land and two ways of living (Arab vs Western) crashing with one another. Israel is the West's outpost, while Palestine is the Arab and Iranian world's answer. It was likely about religion totally in the start, but that has moved more over to a geo-political war for the last 50 or so years, or else Sunni Hamas would not be supported by Shia Iran.

  6. On 05/05/2024 at 03:42, Jareth said:

    It's impossible to disagree with your sentiment - we are screwed because 'some people' believe they are destined, folks scoff at that tired old line of islamic virgins in heaven awaiting them, well there is something obviously awaiting all religious nuts, nothing the fook at all. I'm tired of it, I'm bored of the troubles, have your beliefs but do not expect anyone to kowtow to your beliefs, and if you massacre a people expect some push back, i.e. Israel's current problem with everyone else.

    Coincidentally AH, JS and Pol Pot were all rabid atheists. In fact most civilian deaths committed in the last 100 years were done by regimes who had denounced religion. It's not about religion, it's about people being people, extremes come in all shapes and colours and have a particular tendency of flourishing in societies where the moral grounding that religion can have is totally severed.

  7. 53 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

    You’ve approached people in this type of demonstration and asked them for a definition of intifada?

    No, just the eegits outside the Jewish school my granddaughter attends.

    I don’t think confronting a mob like that is a good idea.

    • Like 2
  8. 32 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

    Different people on different marches in different places.

    My experience in Cardiff has not been aggressive it has been noisy but not threatening, It has been a nuisance to drivers for the 5 minutes they walk down a stretch of road between two pedestrianised areas. I have not heard anything about intifada and I have not heard anyone chanting about rivers or seas.

    We shouldn’t pigeon hole lots of people in one lazy stereotype, wherever they are from and whatever they are trying to achieve.

    I will say that here, whilst the protests have been going on for several months, and getting gradually smaller, the policing of them has been ramped up. A couple of weeks ago I would estimate there were around 100 protestors. They had the company of quite a few police, maybe a dozen ‘normal’ police, some of the city centre security, two police each with video cameras, and a policeman with a stills camera. All the police were significantly closer to the protestors than had been the case several months ago when policing was four police officers, leaning against a wall chatting.

    I’m not aware of any incident that would have caused a quadrupling of policing for a protest that has halved in size.

    We can’t demonise protestors for a cause, if we want the right to protest our cause.

    I think it's been far worse in London than Cardiff, and I also probably feel that there's less of the type of person in Cardiff who'd behave like that.

    Here's a photo from London, right at the front of the protest. 

    Tens of thousands of protesters across UK call for a free Palestine | London  | The Guardian

    I'm sure a lot of these people took these posters from the SWP who are often at booths right at the start of protests, but I wonder if these people think? There's at least 10 people here, right at the front of the protest holding posters advocating another intifada - two periods of this conflict with widespread suicide bombing.

    And a bit further back:

    Is 'From the river to the sea' hate speech?

    I mean, if I ever spotted someone protesting for Ukraine calling for wiping out or widescale terror against Russia I'd confront them.

    Same protest, different place:

    Is 'From the river to the sea' hate speech?

    Just calling it 'resistance', sounds like George Galloway tbh.

    • Like 2
  9. 2 hours ago, Dante_Lockhart said:

    All these protestors need to piss off now. Half of them are only there because they have sheep sydrome and have no clue what they're protesting for.

    When I've tried to have a conversation with them, that seems to be the case for about half of them, yes.

    'What does from the ri... mean?' 'Hurr durr, you're trying to catch me out!'

    'What does intifada mean in the context of Palestine consider you have it on your poster?' 'I got it from a stall down the road and to be honest with you I don't know but Israel!'.

    I think a lot of them are whipped up by people like George Galloway, SWP, Chris Williamson, the usual suspects and their underlying anti-semitic tendenies (especially if they're second or third generation from that part of the world). That's not to say that there aren't an awful lot of people with good points, I just think many of them are there because it's popular and the cool thing to do. Or else they'd also be in the protest march for Ukraine. As a population we're getting more and more dumb and divided, the way some of these people act are a byproduct of that.

    Hard times create strong people, strong people create better times, good times create weak people and weak people create hard times.

    • Like 2
  10. I do sometimes wonder - as I walk past the pro-Palestinian thugs in balaclavas wearing a uniquely Bedouin scarf screaming 'from the ri...' outside my granddaughters place of education every Friday afternoon - what would happen if Israel sent a missile with a fragmentation cluster warhead into a peaceful civilian group walking their dogs/jogging/walking/playing with their kids near a beach, when you consider in example that time when everyone was up in arms that Israel hit that parking lot outside a hospital and it then turned out to be Hamas\PIJ misfiring their water pipe rocket. I'll give it to them, they're great at stealing oxygen from conflicts that have far worse breaches of war crimes, genocide and breaches of humanitarian law in them. Everyone looks at Gaza and Israel while Vlad does as he pleases. 

    Meanwhile I'll join the 20 odd people outside the Russian embassy to try to do the little I can to stop Russia trying to exterminate Ukrainians and several different peoples in Sudan\Darfur, and then I'll let the millions of people protest the conflict where one side attacked the other, one side went totally overboard, and the UN is using 90% of its resources on.

    And then I wonder how much of this is whipped up online by Iranian\Russian bots as literally no one cares about Sudan or Myanmar.

  11. 3 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

    I'm not saying that. I'm saying that war is horrendous and with it come awful acts of cruel and indiscriminate barbarism, civilians targeted and so on - war is horrific, that's its nature, it's war.

    Israel-Palestine isn't a war - it's a punishment.

    Hamas is the government of Gaza. The Al-Aqsa brigades are their military arm. Their military arm attacked another country. It's a war. Just like Ukraine fighting Wagner is a war.

    The Syrian civil war is a fight between one state actor and several smaller groups. Do you also not call that a war?

  12. 34 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

    I think for me, that difference is in the nature of the conflicts - Russia-Ukraine is a war, an aggressor nation is attempting to take territory from another nation and the two military forces of those nations are squared off against each other - enormous damage and loss of life is an horrific by product of that.

    Israel-Palestine isn't a war, it's a punishment for a shocking terrorist attack - the deaths and the horrors in both events are appalling, but the nature of the two things is different.

     

    I'm sorry but this line of reasoning doesn't float for me. You don't bomb a theater full of kids because you're fighting a country's military forces, you don't abduct 80k children, you don't mass rape, do what they did in Bucha, use ballistic missiles with fragmentation and cluster warheads on a city 500miles from the front line. Those aren't military actions, even if you think they are.

    The missiles Russia use to bomb Ukraine can hit a target within 100 meters. Why people keep trotting out the theory that people dying to the same missiles 50.000 meters from the front line in hospitals and schools is somehow a byproduct of military action is beyond me. It isn't, and underlines the feelings I have about standards.

    Russia gets a 500 mile leeway for their bombs, while Israel is supposed to hit a needle in a haystack in the most densely populated area in the world.

    • Like 1
  13. For once I've got to give it to Macron. Sending troops to create safe zones in the big cities is a valid approach. That might actually force the Russians to not shoot at them due to fear of escalation. I don't see how else you're going to save civilian lives except for arming Ukraine to the teeth with every anti-air asset we have available and strangling China's supply to Russia.

    • Like 4
  14. For me the big difference between Russia and Israel is that Hamas started this (again), and are (were) the elected government of Gaza. In fact  they still hold a majority in support. Ukraine didn't attack Russia, it never did. Yet Russia has been doing in my opinion far worse things than Israel. Flattened cities with 100k+ inahbitants, bombed theaters with KIDS written on the roof, abducted and kidnapped 80k children, backbound, shot and dumped mayors, ex soldiers, policemen and other members they thought were 'pro Ukranian' into mass graves. Raped women by the 10s of thousands. 

    One is an aggressor attacking another country completely unprovoked, while the other is a reaction to a massive terrorist attack. There's a big difference. That said I'd love to see both Benny and Vlad in the Hague, but that won't happen. I'll settle for Benny being put in prison for his corruption so there's peace to investigate, and for Vladimir to keel over once he's completely trashed everything in Russia to keep this stupid war going. Russia's just used fragmentation based cluster munitions on a boardwalk in Russia, for me he's on the same level as AH. 

  15. Russia have used cluster warheads on Odessa. Europe 2024 folks. Several people hit, including a dog while jogging with its owner.

    Time to consider sending in the troops and see if Russia dares attack NATO personnel. This can't go on.

    Spoiler

     

    Hidden the content in case people don't want to see it.

    If we haven't already, it's time to restore the tranche 1 and 2 typhoons (if there are any left), fast track training of Ukrainian pilots and get them everything they need. Tired of the drip feed.

    Translation:

    Quote

    Generally Prosecutor Andriy Kostin on the attack on Odesa:

    Russia cynically disregards all norms of international humanitarian law. Last night, the enemy sneakily attacked Odesa. Five people died, more than 30 were injured. Among the injured are two children and a pregnant woman. Five wounded are in extremely serious condition.

    The strike was carried out by an Iskander ballistic missile with a cluster warhead. It is an indiscriminate weapon, the use of which can lead to significant casualties among the civilian population. In a radius of 1.5 km from the site of the shelling, metal fragments and debris of the rocket were recovered. The investigation has reason to believe that the decision to use such a weapon was made by the officers of the russian federation deliberately in order to kill as many peaceful Ukrainians as possible.

    The investigation is ongoing. We will find and punish those who issue criminal orders to shell peaceful Ukrainian cities.

    Ukraine gets aid, Russia bombs joggers, pregnant women, kids and dogs with ballistic missiles with cluster warheads.

    • Sad 2
  16. 6 minutes ago, Tumblerseven said:

    Oh the indiscriminate bombing another buzzword. You dont even know what indiscriminate bombing looks like. Read about Dresden jesus christ.
    You understand that it makes no sense? right? you must know this.

     

    Most densely populated region in the world a strip.
    3 month indiscriminate bombing campaign.
    30k dead? :D
    its not indiscriminate bombing by any standard! stop using these buzzwords they dont make any sense.

     

    Hamas fights in hard-hit areas of Gaza while deal emerges to deliver  medicine to hostages | PBS NewsHourBombing of Dresden - Wikipedia

    If it quacks like a duck.

    That said, Dresden and Hamburg would be classed as genocide today.

    • Like 2
    • Haha 1
  17. 1 minute ago, blandy said:

    Not for me. Discussing motivation (as different) while agreeing they've done genocide (like Israel has) is not a different standard. If I blow up a school because I hate all kids, or if I blow up a school because I think the people who own it have taken it from me, the motivation is different, the horror and crime is the same and utterly wrong on both examples.

    The crime isn't the same. Genocide is different to war crimes. I get the sentiment, and that is why I think so many people are arguing genocide.

    If you think kidnapping 70k kids and wanting to wipe out a whole nationality and culture in Ukraine doesn't constitute genocide, then killing 35k people in Gaza isn't genocide either. Differing standards.

  18. 7 minutes ago, blandy said:

    That isn't what you say -  the first line directly says @OutByEaster? agrees Russia is committing genocide. He's right too, about Russia seeing Ukrainians as Russian (like them) whereas Israel doesn't see Palestinians as Israeli (like them).

    Claiming that Russia doesn't want to eliminate Ukrainians when they've bombed more schools and hospitals in a week almost every week than Israel has for 6 months and saying that they don't have the intent, while calling what Israel does is a clear cut case of differing standards. Which is exactly what I was pointing at. Read some posts further down and you'll see a follow up as to why said poster only thinks Russia is committing war crimes.

    Ergo Israel is held to a different standard. 

  19. 10 minutes ago, Tumblerseven said:

    you said this too first random page.


    I dont understand are we like pretending that people in here dont demonize israel? :DDD  Or your argument i said a few nice things so that means im fair? you cant be serious.

    IDF and Israel's right wing leadership deserves demonisation. They've prosecuted war with Hamas and Hezbollah before without the massive civilian loss of life before, they could do it again.

    That said I understand that it needed a bigger reaction this time after what happened Oct 7th. I just don't think they chose the right action. They could've played this the proper way - go to the UN, present their proof, get backing from the majority to go into Gaza with UN soldiers, apprehend the people in charge, blow up tunnels, bunkers, clean the area of weapons and put a spotlight on Hamas backers. That way they'd get a much bigger 'ok' to actually go hard against Hamas wherever Hamas was hiding. The indiscriminate bombing is just a bit too 1945 or Russia for most people's liking.

    I just find the whole trampy non-critical support for either side asinine. Both sides here have 70 years of furthering these issues, and whenever there was a deal or agreement presented the extremists from both sides shut it down to make money and further the conflict.

    • Like 3
  20. 18 minutes ago, blandy said:

    I'm not sure that's really true. Without looking back, I guess there might be a tiny number of posts doing that, but generally no. I feel that people hold Israel to exactly the same standards as any other nation, particularly those nations with armed forces of a reasonable size/capability.  One of the many issues is that both at an executive level and at an operational level the IDF and the government of Israel has massively breached, ignored, disregarded, those standards and that's so blindingly obvious and the cause of a fair amount of the loss of sympathy with Israel after the Oct 7 attacks. I genuinely don't think anyone on here would be any less critical of the countries you mention if they'd done something similar to what Israel has done in razing Gaza to the ground.

    A few weeks ago this exact thing was done when Russia flattening Mariupol was mentioned, in this thread. The argument that was used was that Russia was attacking soldiers and weren't committing genocide.

  21. 11 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

    Perhaps there should be some neutral or multi party version of the Simon Wiesenthal Centre set up to relentlessly hunt down the butchers and their masters.

    Anybody killing hostages, targeting civilians, ordering the closure of food supply lines, using an injured child as sniper bait, stealing land, or bombing refugee tents should be hunted down.

    A good idea. In my humble opinion you'd need to also go after the people who are stealing the aid that is meant for the Palestinian people. The heads of the PA\Fatah\PLO\Hamas are dripping rich and have absolutely no incentive to have Palestine be a proper state, it'd remove their cash cow. We also need to seriously look at how the UN is prolonging this rather than actually helping the people who are suffering by using militants and corrupt officials to hand out aid. It hasn't worked.

    In example, how is Yassir Arafat's widow so rich?

    How did Suha Arafat amass all these millions?

    Quote

    “You know and I know that this is the Palestinian people’s money. These millions didn’t belong to Yasser Arafat, they belong to the Palestinian people. Besides, the fact that these millions were embezzled or arrogated four or five years ago doesn’t mean that it is hopeless or too late to set the record straight."

     

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