Jez

Did you not see Houllier whisper to Ash to get himself sent off? No but could houllier not see that young had lost his head along time before his second yellow or the fact that Bannan was doing an immense job of closing people down and giving them little time on the ball? Yes thats right Young had lost his head, charging around killing everyone in sight. If Bannan had stayed on and Young gone off people would be kicking off at taking Young off.

Did you not see Houllier whisper to Ash to get himself sent off?

FFS

Oh Stilian you cannot shoot for shit.

No

Wank Ash

If we draw the game 2 - 2 he'll probably praise the team for their effort. Yet gets grief when he criticise's players.

Need to keep our heads and get back to controlling the game.

Drop Albrighton though to play Downing? Or drop Downing?

Did anyone else just see that? Pires ran and passed at the same time!

Now a clean sheet please. That would be an important little confidence booster. Pires really should retire though, he can hardly run!

Brilliant goal. Played Villa

NRC giving Pires a bollocking for not tracking.

Dunnes **** up of the game.

COME ON! !!

Bit scrappy so far, need to pass it more and keep the ball.

Which is why i think he is rested today and not dropped.

Either way he wont win over anyone. Win and its just against a poor Sheff Utd team, nothing special. Loose and its shocking that we lost against a poor Sheff Utd team.

I don't think that's the argument. It's not because he has the same players (he doesn't). It just seems a reasonable expectation of a new manager that he will do at least as well as the manager he replaced, and hopefully a bit better. Otherwise, what would be the point in changing managers? Err we didn't change manager by choice did we? I agree there should be a certain level. I just think that a combination of some shocking injuries and the now obvious powerful influence MON had on the place and players, its not just that easy. Houllier has been very poor, its not all his own doing though. Unless results improve he should leave quick sharp too!

So a new manager should have the same standard of performance as the previous manager, no question. As simple as that? Well, it's a reasonable enough benchmark to start off with, isn't it? If you accepted every new manager would lead inevitably to a decline, there would be far fewer changes of manager! So now its a reasonable benchmark. Should he have the same results and level of performance, yes or no? He has the same defence, he should defend the exact same way should it not , as simple as that; nothing else could possibly effect it? How about the fact that MON is not managing a defence he built? Look Houllier has been a bit shit, but to claim he should just have the same performances just because he has the same players is stupid.

So a new manager should have the same standard of performance as the previous manager, no question. As simple as that?

But surely you release that MON has quite an imposing personality and persona around the place, he controlled everything, then just gone! Its not just the case of 1 manager get the players playing well, another completely different manager should do exactly the same? Extreme example, when Fergie leaves should his successor just have the team playing just as well straight away? Its not as black and white as that, far from it. It shouldn't be as bad as it is, but its not just a case of the players playing the same.

What if the new manager comes in and half the first team get injured and the other half dont like him and are pining after the old manager? Look i'm not defending Houllier and are as worried as the next fan, but Lerner wont get rid yet and we just have to hope Houllier gets his point across the the players respond.

Surely your contradicting yourself there? Houllier having almost full strength team yet nothing happening. Yet a tall order for a new bloke? The new bloke would have a full strength team that MON did wonders with? Why a tall order?

I agree with this John. I do see BJ's point of view as well. It can only be other problems for so long, at some point Houllier is just continuing not to work and could take us down. A new manager always has to stamp his authority on the club, the players as professionals have to take this on board. Its obvious that Houllier will change how training works etc thats his prerogative as the boss. If players are kicking up a fuss because its not the MON way they are used too, then we shouldn't just pamper to them and continue to do everything the MON way, thats just not productive either. Our defence played well last season (well the first part of it) now they are shit, should Houllier just go back to the MON way to keep players happy and improve our defence? Thats nor productive and damaging in the long run, as its doin something the way of the ex manager, the two styles will class even more down the line. Its obvious MON's control and persona had a massive impact on the way things were done. Our current league position puts more pressure on Houllier, if they didn't like how things were being run but we were higher up they would have to put up with it. I would much prefer our manager to try and do what he thinks is correct, rightly or wrongly, players should not decide anything that important. This a long list of ridiculous injuries has not helped. But we should just continue as Houllier struggles to get to grasp of things and get his point across? No, at some point it will have to change, i hope its not too late.