honest_bertie

sorry forgot to say I voted "no"

never wanted AM at Villa in the first place, could only see the current situation happening based on his history in English football, so far proven right but at the same time as wishing him gone I do feel that he is not the only issue. Randy and Faulkner have now proved themselves so inept at running a football club that it is either time all three left or at least AM and PF leave and Randy somehow manages to appoint a CEO who actually knows football (not that I have much faith in Randy's decision making anymore).

can't believe i have reached this point now but i waould take fat sam over the clueless McLeish... LEAVE NOW AM AND TAKE PF WITH YOU PLEASE!

We didn't even have a shot off targ..oh..

We didn't have a shot on tar---- oh...

We didn't even play 4-4-2----oh

erm....

MCLEISH OUT!

HE SHOULD HAVE PLAYED BENT, GABBY, GIVEN & HERD DESPITE THEIR RESPECTIVE INJURIES AND BANS!!!!!

lololololololololol

whatever bruv, like your use of the enter key there, very clever. if you are happy with the shambles that has become our club then thats your lookout.

AM/PF/RL out

can't believe i have reached this point now but i waould take fat sam over the clueless McLeish... LEAVE NOW AM AND TAKE PF WITH YOU PLEASE!

Catch 22 situation

We really need to strengthen in january and bring in reinforcements

But would you give McLeish money after the sensational capture of Alan Hutton for 4 million

What a waste i certainly wouldn't

Absolutely not. It seems like AM main scouting mainly takes place at the Tottenham training ground and I don't want anymore of their broken rejects or cast offs. If Randy is thinking of spending anywhere in the region of 3-5 mill I would much rather he used it to get rid of McCleish and his crew and then got someone in who at least attempts to football. I would happily accept no Jan transfers and a second half of the season battle with what we have got rather than AM still be here and signing more average/shite players that are just going to create another backlog of over paid players seeing out a custy contract with not much ambition (e.g Collins, Ireland, Dunnne, Warnock)

Why is McLeish not utilising our strengths? Is he some sort of **** idiot?

I don't know him personally but judging from and in reference to his work at Villa so far I'd say, yes, he is definitely an idiot.

Bent is Lerner's 'Mail man'. If he is not getting the service, Randy will invest to help him!

Cant tell if serious....

I am serious. If Bent was unhappy with the service and wanted to leave...I honestly think Lerner would invest in a player.

I am not saying that it is right for a player to dictate to a Chairman, I just think Lerner has his favourites and Lerner does text Bent a lot apparantly.

I'd love to think that your right mate, i really do. Unfortunatly i think the purse strings have been tightened and tied in a knot. I mean, you'd be looking at spending between £10-15m (or Dempsey for a little less) to get someone of the required quality.

I'm getting the impression you rate Dempsey

Needs time.

:winner: Hooray. Some sense.....

Explain the sense please.

Where is he taking us? What's he doing with the squad? What are the positive you've seen? What direction are we heading? What team are we now? Are you happy with the football? Are you happy with the results?

I'd really like to know what exactly you see what some of us are clearly missing.

12 votes out of 329 says it all.

No, clearly I can't be happy with the football, or the results.

BUT he's had 1 transfer window and half a season on drastically reduced budget. The bahaviour of some fans has been appalling The whining "we were promised top 4" "he's an ex-Blouse manager" attitude helps no one.

BUT sacking him and starting again for the 5th time in 2 seasons isn't going to help us either.

I'm not seeing something different, I just don't believe sacking him and sulking like toddlers will help either. There is noone available who is any better - so why change.

Fair enough you are totally entitled to your point of view but to say there is no one who is available who is better is questionable. Mark Hughs is available and better, also we poached AM and money talks. I believe we could tempt a better manager who is currently employed, someone a lot better. Its a shame but the modern game isn't full of honourable one club managers and players now and just like players transfers if a managers head is tuned and the money is right they will consider coming. To long Villa have been the nice guys getting shafted by the bigger boys, time we got ruthless and cut our ties with AM asap, there ARE better options out there!

Personally I think AM and PF are the two are the major problems at Villa and both need to go. Randy needs to acknowledge he f**ked up by appointing them and he now needs to show he's got the balls and get rid and start again.

He needs to appoint a decent CEO who could take command of the club and get in a manager that is in keeping with the "proud history" of the club, someone that actually understands the game and can really work within financial constraints if necessary, some one like (but not necessarily) Lambert @ Norwich. If he did that I would be happy enough and would be prepared to accept there maybe some tricky times ahead short term but maybe long term there was hope and along the way we'd at least have a team playing some decent football and looking like they know what they are supposed to be doing.

We need someone at the top with some real experience of running a top level football club, someone that is a bit more cut throat and less of a yes man than PF, some one that would have balls to stand up to RL and say he was wrong if needed.

If Randy can't see or accept this then maybe its time he sold up and headed off.

Anyone else think AM and PF might be related?

Didn't see the game on sat or evan the highlights. Just reading Kendrick's match verdict on the Brum mail website and am ait annoyed with some of his comments. He starts making out fans are never going to accept AM cos of who he is and where he is from, he more than anyone should understand Villa fans and and their apathy toward McCrap. The football is dire, he doesn't understand tactics and how to set up winning teams, under his management we are fast going backwards in style of play and in terms of league position.

Sometime I get the felling Kendrick does't want to offend the Villa board/chairman/manager to much incase they restrict his access to stories or something. If Mcleish was able to at least get the team playing with some heart less people would be on his case, if he could get them playing heart and playing football rather than hoofball evan less would be hating on him. Sure a ver small minority will always have issues of who he is and where he's form but please give the majority of us some credit, its not his past that is the problem, its his complete lack of managerial ability that is the issue. Can't believe the free fall Villa are on, bet MON can't wait to play us!

Where's Randy? Right now I hope he's on the phone to Qatar.

Ive been a defender of McLeish from the start, i wasnt happy with his appointment but i was prepared to give him my support and wished him all the best. But im sorry, last night was a complete joke! As soon as Gary Neville put the starting line up on Sky, i was always going to be a case of 'how many will we lose by?'.

Fair enough, i think that 99% of expected us to return to Villa Park with **** all to show for our efforts, as Spurs were always going to be the better team, 2nd best team on form in the league and a number of players we could only dream of having. But for **** sake! If your going to lose at least go down having a go! We were beat before the whistle blew to start the game, i mean if you going to be negative and play a game of damage limitation, for me you may as well have a pop at them and lose 4 or 5! Show some **** bottle and a bit of character and at least we walk away with our heads held high saying 'fair play, we tried but were soundly beaten by the far superior team'.

Last night was a disgrace.

Agreed, will you still defend AM or is that it now? Personally I can understand fans who gave him a chance but last nights team setup and his comments on the OS today where he pretty much takes no responsibility for the loss and mainly blames the players saying they "owe him" should make everyone realise he is the wrong man for Villa. Shit manager with shit record, shit tactics. Proud history, very murky future if this continues. javascript:emoticon(':cry:')

For me mate, that game was the straw that broke the camels back. Im done with him.

He has decent players, who can excite people and cause 90% of the teams in the league problems, but he continues to be negative and defensive and slowly but surely he is stripping the team of any creative spark we had. He doesnt realise that he has the players who can hurt teams and he doesnt need to be so restricted in his tactics and set-up.

He is dragging this club down to his level. Game over.

Fair dues mate, a good summary.

If you're going to pick a dog's arse of a team that gives your side no chance before a ball is kicked, do NOT try and give the impression that we gave it a good go in your post match interview. The fans aren't stupid, and watching the game with neutrals last night, even they could see how utterly witless we were.

Spot on.

Ive been a defender of McLeish from the start, i wasnt happy with his appointment but i was prepared to give him my support and wished him all the best. But im sorry, last night was a complete joke! As soon as Gary Neville put the starting line up on Sky, i was always going to be a case of 'how many will we lose by?'.

Fair enough, i think that 99% of expected us to return to Villa Park with **** all to show for our efforts, as Spurs were always going to be the better team, 2nd best team on form in the league and a number of players we could only dream of having. But for **** sake! If your going to lose at least go down having a go! We were beat before the whistle blew to start the game, i mean if you going to be negative and play a game of damage limitation, for me you may as well have a pop at them and lose 4 or 5! Show some **** bottle and a bit of character and at least we walk away with our heads held high saying 'fair play, we tried but were soundly beaten by the far superior team'.

Last night was a disgrace.

Agreed, will you still defend AM or is that it now? Personally I can understand fans who gave him a chance but last nights team setup and his comments on the OS today where he pretty much takes no responsibility for the loss and mainly blames the players saying they "owe him" should make everyone realise he is the wrong man for Villa. Shit manager with shit record, shit tactics. Proud history, very murky future if this continues. javascript:emoticon(':cry:')

Steven Ireland has made 12 appearances now and we're still waiting to see that fabled talent that people spout on about from one good season at Man C. Get rid asap, earning far to much money and is a waste of resources. People bash on about how shit Makoun was, personally I think he was alrite, nothing amazing but a decent player. Fair he wasn't setting the world alight in the 8 or so games he played but he cost 4 mil and was on a lot less the SI and still got slated by many, I'd rather Makoun was on the bench at the moment and SI was in Greece.

just my thoughts but it seems strange the backing that AM gets form a lot of forum members, especially when they were so anti GH.

I'm not going to go on about GH after this post, he has gone now and we need to get over him but I can't understand how people are defending AM when they so bitterly disliked what GH was doing...

In just a few months AM has managed to make us probably one of the most boring teams in the league, he is blatantly tactically naive and personally I have no confidence in him in the transfer market, hutton and Nzog have both flopped so far, I think maybe there is hope for Nzog long term however hutton should be no where near the team but AM is to stubborn to drop him because he signed him. Jenas although he could be a good player is just a joke at the moment and I don't think he'll ever be fully fit whilst at Villa, when did he last play? Ages ago, basically as someone said in another tropic we're just getting him fit again for spurs to either have him back or sell on.

Credit to AM I think Given was a good signing but to be honest anyone with the smallest amount of intelligence could see that he could be a good signing, he's been consistently good wherever he has been and desperately wanted out of Man shity so was open to offers, at the time we looked a good prospect, wonder if he still thinks so. Personally I can only hope RL is lining the club up for sale to someone who can now take the club forward and has the sense to hire a proper experienced replacement for Faulkner, someone who knows how to run football club. Thanks for the good times Randy but things move on and I think its now time for you to.

rant over

I can't entirely blame Mcleish, the board need to take some flack for not investing in the squad properly.

Mcleish hasn't been helped by the boards mandate either, which seems to be 1) reduce the wage bill 2) don't get relegated.

IMO Randy needs to get his check book out in January!

I understand where you are coming from but to be honest right now I would rather Randy held his hands up and admitted they got it wrong hiring AM and sent him packing along with Faulkner. Then he needs to hire someone who actually understands football business to replace PF and hire a manager with the ability and foresight to build something longterm inter grating the young players and has an eye for a bargain in the transfer market.

How do you know Mcleish won't do that for us? He's been in the job for 5 league games - how can you criticise a longterm vision after 2 months?!

I don't but thats just my opinion. I'm sure people will disagree with me but AM's record (especially in the prem league) inspires me with no confidence in him at all, that, the negative football his teams play and the fact that 2 out of 3 seasons in the premier league his team was relegated were the reasons I never wanted him at Villa and still have no confidence in him.

I can't entirely blame Mcleish, the board need to take some flack for not investing in the squad properly.

Mcleish hasn't been helped by the boards mandate either, which seems to be 1) reduce the wage bill 2) don't get relegated.

IMO Randy needs to get his check book out in January!

I understand where you are coming from but to be honest right now I would rather Randy held his hands up and admitted they got it wrong hiring AM and sent him packing along with Faulkner. Then he needs to hire someone who actually understands football business to replace PF and hire a manager with the ability and foresight to build something longterm inter grating the young players and has an eye for a bargain in the transfer market.

Im not excusing AMC completely but we were poor under GH last year and now AMC. Time for some players to step up to the mark, especially the experienced pros.

I think many fans have convinced themselves that Villas senior players are still top players. Apart from Bent and Given I don't think we have any top players in our team anymore. People like Dunne, Warnock, Ireland, Petrov and collins all live off past glories, namely when they were playing well under MON (bar Ireland, he lives off 1 good season at Man C). I think AM is and will always be the wrong manager for Villa but the main problem these last few years is the ineptness of the board who have sanctioned over the top wages and contracts which has led to the mess Villa are now in. Just my thoughts.

Alongside Dunne, Stephen Ireland shouldn't be anywhere near Aston Villa now.

Care to reason why? Particularly with regards to Dunne.

Stephen Ireland's comments regarding Birmingham and Aston Villa showed his commitment to AVFC. He didn't want to join us in the first place, has been given a number of chances in which he has failed to take any of them and still complains. It seems that it's everyone elses fault apart from Stephen Ireland's fault in his screwed up head.

Richard Dunne's behaviour on the team bonding weekend, abusing the inexperienced team members and a club legend, taking advantage of the 'treat' that they had been given to get pissed showed his attitude and thoughts towards AVFC. I'd also say his performances last year should have ensured his Villa career was over, and whilst some may be raving about him this year - he was at fault for the second tonight and there is still the panic whenever the ball goes into the box - and I'd place any improvements in defensive performance on the negative shite football that our 'manager' now 'plays'.

Spot on

No i don't think we can afford to get rid of McLeish mainly for the reasons you state in your post.

But if we did, i bet we'd go for Chris Hughton.

Don't think we'll be seeing AM leaving at all unfortunately, think he'll get at least a season. Personally right now I'd be happy with Chris Houghton though, was very unlucky to be treated the way he was at Newcastle.

N'Zogbia is a winger, yet nothing in McLeish's tactics suggest good wing play in his methods. Its the manager's fault because there was nothing wrong with N'Zogbia last season..

Its just like Hleb, Bentley and Larsson at Blues, they too looked ordinary under McLeish, with players like Dann and Johnson looking top class. We are now seeing similarities at Villa with Dunne looking top class and attacking players looking poor.

Agree with this. Think AM main ability as a manger is to make good players look average and average players look good, not a great quality really.

For all his quotes about how Villa is steeped in tradition of exciting football and how we need to be attacking and pleasing the fans I can't see any signs that this is what he is aspiring to and no sign that he has any ability to get his teams playing that way.

The Brum Mail online today has an article where Richard Dunne is quoted as saying “I probably would have left if Houllier had stayed". Shame GH went I say. Dunne then goes on to say how it would be nice to live the lifestyle that you get playing in the USA leagues like Robbie Keane and Beckham, it must be hard earning the pittance he's on at Villa poor guy. Can't believe he's still here, most calamitous player in the league.

hate these Petrov vs NRC debates. Both are crap and i miss teh days of good centre midfielders like Barry and Milner

Nail - head.