Ginko

Great post Ginko.

Hah thanks. Next time I'll give it a read through before I hit submit though. Too many spelling mistakes :oops:

remember how crap petrov was when he first started as dm after mon decided to switch him to a more defensive role?

No, really, don't remember that, I thought he was the boo boys scapegoat of the time. Petrov was never as bad as people seemed to want to make out, just as Makoun wasn't as good last night as people want to make out.

Do I think Makoun is a bad player? No. Do I think he played well last night? No. Do I think he'll come good for us? Maybe but he'll need to improve the defensive side of his game and clearly his fitness by a long long way, to be looking tired at 50 minutes, just after half time is someone a long long long way off the fitness levels required.

I just wish people would stop looking through rose tinted glasses and look at things objectively than jumping to a players defence because it suits an argument. I said a few days ago after we'd signed him that he would need quite a bit of time to adjust to the PL and I'd give him all season to do that. I stand by that and I think last night proved me right tbh he's way off the fitness levels required, he's way off tactically too, I expected that. What however I thought GH would do is play Petrov for the first 60 and then bring Makoun on for the last 30 as Wigan tired a bit. That would be the best way to introduce him to the PL, a few 30 min sub appearances first, not straight in at the deep end.

I think pwehaps instead of seeing through rose-tinted glasses, the people who thought he did well, and I am one of them, are seeing the positives of his performance whilst keeping in mind the fact that he hasn't played for a couple of weeks, he;s not used to the pace of the english game, doesn't know the players, doesn't speak the language etc. Considering all of these factors that are bound to affect his game, he did well, I don't think I've read a single post where someone said he was outstanding.

Also, from what I saw, I don't think any of our players played particularly well really. I will say I only caught the hour long highlight reel however so I didn't see the entire game, but it seemed like typical Villa to me, especially towards the end. One bit sticks in my mind in particular. Dunne was in our box and went to clear the ball, there were no Wigan players in the immediate vacinity and Gabby was open on the left. A simple pass to him and we could have attacked but Dunne hoofed it out of play.

I'm sick of seeing this type of football, especially against teams like Wigan. Naturally I'm glad we won, delighted even, but I was hoping for a more dominating performance. We rode our luck against City, but we should not have to bite our fingernails to hang onto a one goal lead against Wigan for christ's sake. In relation to Makoun, he did OK all things considering, but no-one played particularly well from what I saw, so I can't expect Makoun to be amazing when the rest of the team is average at best.

Interesting that, Baker starting and Petrov on the bench. I'd have thought NRC would be dropped.

Anyone notice that the Mirror football article says he is a moaning and whinging player... yet the article on AVFC which shares a great deal of the quotes has Houllier saying that he always has a smile on his face and is NOT a moaning or whinging player?

I think the Mirror may have misquoted, not that it's a big deal anyway, as long as he does the business on the pitch. You have to score tonight Jean II, our other debutants have so if you don't I will deem you a failure :winkold:

What, that doesn't get you fired up and ready to play some football?

Must be just me then

Who is it who comes out to Duel of the Fates from Star Wars Episode 1? They have the right idea. We should come out to something cinematic and powerful like that, not really a theme people could sing along to though I suppose.

Could be worse, we could be Man City with Blue Moon, I hate that song with a passion.

Would love to hear this blaring over the PA as our lads ran onto the field...

Interesting, the OS says he's signed...

I don't think there's any reason to be concerned. The club wouldn't tell the press to go to Villa Park for a press conference only for them to waltz in at 4:30pm and say... "Sorry guys, deal is off I'm afraid! But do enjoy the 1874 lounge, and here is John Carew. To celebrate him staying at the club, he has brought a few 'friends' from a reputable 'club' to ease your frustration."

I'm sure it's probably a matter of just ironing out some of the finer details.

Absolutely disgraceful, but I would like to think it's only a tiny minority of Sunderland fans who are so idiotically racist. I agree Birmingham is more diverse but there's plenty of racism here, hell it's everywhere you go, and unfortunately I've witnessed fellow Villa fans voice their bigoted opinions too.

I love the Mail Online story, at one point they refer to "Bent's betrayal". We don't know why he wants to leave. If he is unsettled, what should he do? Stay there and under-perform? He's earning their club a lot of money by switching and footballers are mercenaries, as are managers and most other staff members. If he'd decided to leave and they weren't getting anything for him or he was leaving them in a terrible position then maybe, but they're pushing for Europe this season for Christ's sake, it's not a betrayal anymore than if a bigger newspaper came sniffing around that Journalist and he decided to leave for a better job with more money, it's a career for these guys. Ridiculous.

Sorry if it's been posted before, I'm referring to this if anyone's interested:

http://aggbot.com/link.php?id=12229410&r=tw&c=36

What's this I'm hearing about chairs anyway?

I think it's MM being coy, as in they will need more chairs for new signings to sit on.

I was surprised as hell when I heard the news, and I wasn't sure how to react really. It's a lot of money, but as others have said, Bent is a proven goal scorer and that has been a weakness of ours for a long time now.

I should think this will pave the way for Carew to move on now too. Let's get Adam in and hopefully a quality left-back and let's start winning some games yeah?

I think that Sunderland forum has crashed. Sounds like this is true though, but £18 million potentially rising to £24 million?

Being reported on Sky Sports now, yellow ticker!

Oh god, GH has been chatting about Liverpool again. This time about how Dalglish will struggle, because 'management has changed'. CBA to post the article, its not interesting.

a) Houllier is ex-Liverpool

Houllier was in the same situation in that he had been out of the game for a while as has Dalglish

... therefore Houllier is probably the most qualified person to talk to regarding this matter and this fact was no doubt picked up by journalists who then asked Houllier for his opinion.

What's he going to say? "Sorry I've been banned from talking about anything to do with that club I used to manage, you know the red ones."

I know what you mean but I'm not sure we're quite back to a good level of performance. Blues always turn it on especially for us, I guess I'm just not particularly confident at the moment.

Burton home or away would be nice. Away would actually be closer for me. They have a really nice stadium for a lower league team too, been there a few times, nice atmosphere.

The only things against Houller I think you might have missed John, are the fact that he changed the playing style too quickly, we simply do not have the players who are capable, and also that he seems to be a bit too naive and loose-lipped when concerning the media. I agree he has the right to tell players where to go if they give him grief, and no-one knows the truth behind these bust-ups but it seems he may have unnecessarily burnt a few bridges with some players who could really help us out right about now.

Apart from that, I pretty much agree.

Nope quite right, tell me where I said the words 'all people who voted to sack Houllier haven't thought things through', please?

Well if you genuinely weren't trying to imply that those who took a different view to you were not flying off the handle, reacting to one result and not thinking things through then you ought to be more careful about how you word things.

The original quote that was commented on was about how there has been an increase in support for Houllier recently, i.e a day or two after the Sunderland game so it was in direct reference to those people who had voted late and had voted pro-Houllier.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Houllier got most of his 'sack him' votes directly after the Sunderland game since I'm sure most of us were seething with the result.

Perhaps the way I worded my response wasn't perfect. I certainly didn't mean to imply that EVERY person who voted against Houllier hadn't thought things through. People think differently and therefore have different opinions, I respect that, but at the same time whereas I'm far from convinced about Houllier, I am leaning more towards backing him, so naturally when someone accuses me of being a 'Sty fan', I'm not happy.

And in response to you Fran, I personally think we over-achieved with MON and the squad he built. I also think we are under-achieving now, I think with our squad we should be good enough to stay up, but I didn't ever have much confidence in it to get a top 4 spot. That's just my opinion though.

Or people who don't fly off the handle after a game didn't go their way and take time to calm down and think things through before making their decision.

Just because people have a different opinion to you doesn't mean they don't support the Villa Fran, don't be so small minded.

And just because people have a different opinion to you does not necessarily mean that they flew 'off the handle after a game didn't go their way' or didn't think things through, does it?

Nope quite right, tell me where I said the words 'all people who voted to sack Houllier haven't thought things through', please?

After teh Sunderland game I came to VT (which was understandably ram-packed), and saw this poll. I personally didn't know how I felt, and honestly now I still don't. I'm in two minds, I can see why people want him out, I can see why people want him to stay.

I voted in the end to back him primarily because I think our squad is seriously lacking in quality and if we kick him out now we will have gone another transfer window without any business. Whether or not Houllier gets any quality in is another thing altogether but at the moment I personally would rather we took the risk of letting him get some new blood in than firing him, not getting anyone in apart from a new manager from a list of candidates in which I don't see any particularly outstanding individuals at the moment.

If people took time to think things through and still decided to vote sack him, I have no qualms with that, I was just making the point that just because people are backing Houllier doesn't mean we don't support the team.

So since Thursday morning, the vote has gone from 270/39 to 285/89. So in the last 29 hours we've had 50 (77%) votes in favour of backing him, as oppsed to 87% in favour of sacking him in the preceeding 10 hours. Very strange voting patterns.

Sty fans

Or people who don't fly off the handle after a game didn't go their way and take time to calm down and think things through before making their decision.

Just because people have a different opinion to you doesn't mean they don't support the Villa Fran, don't be so small minded.

I don't think Randy is the sort to be pushed around by fans. The Cleveland Browns fans all want him to sell the team apparantly and have done for years. He will only sack him if he feels it is the right decision.

Maybe, but people can't have forgotten what it was like when KMac was in charge that quickly can they? Everyone was calling for his head, saying he didn't have the experience.

The fact is, it's well documented the love the players have for KMac, but they still turned in a dreadful performance against Newcastle and didn't do particularly well under him. I'll admit that he wasn't in charge for very long but if the team plays like that under someone they want to play for, and play like that under Houllier who we all assume they don't want to play for, doesn't that suggest something else is wrong?

Great article by Neil Moxley

Nail. On. Head.

Yep, spot on that.

I think Mr Moxley may have been reading this site a lot recently concerning that story. Very one-sided, I like the way he didn't make a single suggestion of who could come in and do a better job. It feels like to me that he is obviously aware of the way the majority of villa fans are feeling and has written that article accordingly. A biased piece of journalism, though not necessarily incorrect on a lot of points.

Fair enough but they guy is doing a shit job. Doesn't mean personal jibes are acceptable. I don't see why people 'hate' him...he's doing shit at a JOB, it's not on purpose.

My comparison was shit but so was his. The guy doesn't deserve to be hated just because he's shit at what he's doing in my opinion, especially when it's personal. I hate him as a football manager sure but when people say 'I hate the person'....or whatever, I find it quite sad.

Same with the players, they rarely get 'personal abuse' for being shit, I don't get why managers should.

Ha no sorry, I was laughing at your comment on dudley_villa's post. I meant his comparison was ridiculous, not yours, I was in full agreement

I can see where the confusion came about though, apologies.

You are right, I actually don't speak to my uncle or cousin anymore. They tried taking on a job but in the end they were really shit at it. So I just thought, what words removed they are. Being shit like that. Haven't spoken to them since.

So yes, your comment makes perfect sense.

What a ridiculous comparison. Football is a business at the end of the day.

Jesus, this site has ground to a stand-still. I haven't submitted my vote because honestly I don't know anymore and I couldn't follow the game, sounds like we didn't play too well though. Worrying times though.

Hah, jeez it's only been 5 days! Don't you remember transfer windows under MON?