El Segundo

Ref is a blatant Homer and appalling.  Three fouls in one move on Cash, Luiz then McGinn before he finally gives it.  Pickford goes through Watkins no pen.  Joke. 

I've never been totally convinced by Watkins either.  Even last season when he scored plenty, he also missed loads of chances he should have buried. I don't think he has a good enough touch or enough composure to be a really top striker.  He's good at finishing instinctively when getting on the end of crosses but far less so when put through one on one (has he scored any of those?) and when he has a little time to think about what to do. 

Top strikers instinctively look for the corner, or throw a little dummy and  hold the shot while the defenders commit themselves to a block, give the keeper the eyes, or dink it over the advancing keeper. Too often Ollie puts his head down and blasts it straight at the keeper or first defender when he has a clear chance.  

Examples -  when De Gea passed it to him in the box at Old Trafford,  in acres of space and with time to pick his spot,  he blasted it straight back at De Gea.  Also when he did show a little composure to take the ball around Mendy at Stamford Bridge he then blasted it straight at the covering defender instead of placing it or dummying to shoot to get the defender out of the way.  He did something similar in another game, I can't recall which.    Do the top strikers fluff those?  Not usually. 

Archer seems to have that knack of the kind of cool finishing I'm talking about, looking for the corner, but obviously not tested at the top level yet. It's a shame we didn't have a proper cup run to offer him more game time. 

If we can stop shooting ourselves in the foot by gifting goals to the opposition and giving the ball away too often we can be a very good side.   

So many misplaced passes especially first 25 minutes when we were awful.  Some of that was due to trying to play higher risk key passes to set up attacks especially Buendia,  but some of it was just plain sloppiness.  

Much better second half and probably deserved to win it overall.

We need to cure our inability to score for this one - we'll need at least three to nullify the usual PGMOL Man United assistance, dodgy pen etc.

This will will mean we'll need to put it the net 6 or 7 times to allow for forensically researched disallowances. 

Not hopeful.

That is pure corruption in action by VAR.  Desperate to find anything, absolutely any reason, to rule it out.  What chance have you got?

Despite Brentford being mediocre at best, we got what we deserved.  You can play nice little triangles in the middle third all you want but if you are ponderous and blunt up front and leaky at the back it counts for nowt.

Buendia good, Traore dreadful, Targett poor, McGinn way below his best (although seemed to get fouled a lot without punishment) the rest meh. 

Trezeguet was Trezeguet in a nutshell – hopefully Gerrard saw enough of his headless chicken act and embarrassing play-acting to never let him near the first team again and usher him and his clown shoes towards the exit door.  Much rather Archer or JPB had come on.

Bad decisions and needless individual errors at both ends cost us.    

We were the better side first half and would have gone in deservedly, if somewhat fortunately, ahead if it weren’t for a massively idiotic challenge by Cash.  Utter stupidity. Mind you that chance only came about because we gave the ball back to them 3 times in the lead up – Buendia twice and then Ramsey.

2nd half they came out in a higher gear, more intense in their pressing, while we seemed to be half asleep the first 15 minutes.  I think maybe we missed Gerrard’s half time pep talk.

They were able to bring on a £97m striker and it made the difference, but he was helped because Mings and Konsa seemed to allow him to psyche them out. 

Lukaku aside, I honestly don’t think they were that much better than us quality wise.  We played some lovely moves first half but always managed to mess up the final ball.  

On 06/12/2021 at 16:25, sidcow said:

I disagree that the monitor is a bit of theatre for a pre made decision.

We had that one (early this season or last season?) where the ref went over to the monitor but then stuck with his on field decision.

What they need to get away from is this clear and obvious nonsense.  That incident the other day, cant remember which but it was absolutely typical.  VAR couldn't override it because it was not a clear and obvious error but equally if he had given it VAR couldn't override that either because you could see why it would have gone either way and none was a clear and obvious error.

Take out completely the on field decision, it's an irrelevance.  The whole point of VAR is they have multiple angles and slow mo the ref on the field doesn't have.  Just say what you see and call it otherwise your more or less ignoring all of the advantages of the technology so what's the point?

A reffing mistake is a mistake whether it's clear and obvious or not.   It's an incredibly difficult job and they have a hard job to get things right in an instant in a 100 mph game.  It's no disgrace for a guy sitting away from the game with several angles, slow mo and replays will see something minor you didn't, in all truth probably couldn't spot.

Go all in or get rid I say.

I agree with most of this except the bit about the Monitor only being there for show.  Yes they have sometimes stuck with the on-field decision in the past but that seems to have now gone out of the window now that they supposedly only refer the ref to the monitor for "clear and obvious" errors.  The upshot of this, I believe,  is where there is any "unconscious bias" towards the bigger clubs, refs now know that if they award pens in their favour, it will only be overturned if it's a clear error.  The opposite applies for lesser clubs, where refs can freely ignore penalty claims knowing it won't upset any important people  or affect the title race and will only be overturned if clearly an error.  I had hoped VAR would eradicate this type of "unconscious bias" decision, instead it is just serving to justify it.

I was disappointed  by our approach, I also think we showed them too much respect and should have had more of a go. I disagree with those who assume it's a foregone conclusion that we would have got a pasting if we'd done so.  Yes they've tonked a few teams but, Brighton came away from Anfield with a 2-2 and could have won it, and Brentford and West Ham also had a go at their places and succeeded.   When we did have a go they looked rattled at times and if theirs was a pen there's no way in the world the Ings one wasn't.

That said it was a good defensive performance, and they are just as deserving of reward as good attacking performances. We restricted them to very few clear chances until we were chasing the game late on.  I think we were frustrating them and they, fans and players,  quickly realised a pen was their best chance of a breakthrough and they played for one.  Cue dodgy falls in the box and so much screeching for a pen with every challenge in the box that it was almost inevitable the ref would succumb to the pressure at some stage.  To my mind, Salah steps across Mings and trips him, with no attempt to play the ball, then chucks himself over when there is contact, which he had initiated. 

I  was n favour of VAR as I hoped it would eradicate some of the perceived bias towards the usual suspects - unfortunately they seem to be using this "clear and obvious" nonsense to justify and reinforce their ropey decisions instead.  If in doubt, they tend to give the pen to City/Utd/Liverpool/Chelsea knowing it can only be overturned if there's a clear and obvious error.  Conversely they tend to wave away appeals from the likes of Villa, Wolves, Norwich etc. and again it can only be overturned if there is a clear and obvious error.  Thus all the subjective calls can be heavily weighted in favour of the big boys.  It stinks.      

Hi there - Former H&V poster for many years.  Been monitoring this site for a few months as an alternative.  Posters and mods here seem reasonable and balanced (unlike a certain forum) so would like to join the conversation.