GeordieVillan

14 hours ago, Zatman said:

.....Gil looked weak from the clips that they showed, got pushed off the ball 2 or 3 times......

This bit is true, and is actually true in most games. The way that he plays, his twisting and turning style often with his back to the opponent means that most of the time he wriggles away and goes past them very easily, however at least 2-3 times a game he loses possession in the final third and we are often left open to the counter attack.

However, I think you have to accept this if you are going to play creative players that try to make things happen and take chances. We could keep the ball all game if we passed it sideways and backwards and never tried to take anyone on. 

I think it is the way that Gil loses the ball that often looks worse - he doesn't tend to misplace a pass or mis-control the ball, it always seems to be he is overpowered or crowded out by turning into trouble.

He didn't have a great game on Tuesday, but he occupied the opposition and he put in a shift - he's doing ok for me.

1 minute ago, El-Reacho said:

The counter attacking nature of so many teams nowadays means these guys are less likely to gamble. Veretout's probably desperate to get forward and into the box - he seemed to have a strong reputation for doing this when we signed him, the quality of the side he's in means he can't.

But I don't think thats true. If we are playing Westwood, Gana and Veretout as a midfield 3 or the 3 players in a diamond who are not most attacking, then I would expect one of them at least to get into the box, and I wouldn't say that is taking an overly risky approach of leaving us exposed. The vast majority of the time, the only players we have in a decent position in the box is the main striker - whether it be Kozak or Gestede - against 4 defenders at least.

Massive game this - if we win then you have got to think that we are right back in the mix and have some momentum. Arguably we have the toughest game out of all our rivals, but we can only do our job and then look at the others results.

Swansea have Watford at home - that could go either way.

Newcastle have West Ham at home - West Ham are one of the best away teams in the League.

Sunderland are away at Spurs - you would have to fancy Spurs.

Bournemouth and Norwich face each other, so again that could go either way.

The way I see it, if we win - we will be within 6 points of Newcastle and Sunderland, and probably Swansea as well if their poor form continues. The week after we have West Brown away - again not easy - but our rivals also have tough games. If we can win on Saturday then you just never know....

I don't think this argument is unique to Vereotut. For some reason since MON left our midfielders have just stopped going into the box.

In simple terms its about probability - the more bodies we have in the box, the more likely it is that a pass/cross will find one of us, the more likely it is someone will be available for a pass/cross, the more likely it is that a rebound will come to one of us.

Its partly a confidence and desire thing - the players have to believe they can score, and be willing to take the risk of getting into the box. I watched Chelsea's first goal yesterday - the right full back puts the ball across the box and the left full back is at the back post to knock it in. Now I'm not saying Chelsea should be our model because they are struggling, but that would never happen at Villa. Newcastle's first goal Vs Man Utd on Tuesday - the ball goes up high towards the striker in the middle of the box and he heads it down to a midfielder driving forward into the box - we havn't had a player do that since Ian Taylor (perhaps harsh on Barry and Petrov who did try at least to get into the box).

Saturday is a big big test for Lescott, as Leicester as a team are arguably faster and more direct than Palace. We handled Palace well in general, so just need to make sure we get the first goal to avoid heads going down.

19 minutes ago, gilbertoAVFC said:

Mathematically it is extremely unlikely. Also it's unlikely we will be 8 points behind this time tomorrow. Let's not get carried away here. Anything can happen in football but the bookies have us at 1.05 to go down and a lot of people in analytics have a say in this price - we are that price for more than one reason.

That said, I am very impressed with how the Holte End has dealt with this season - far better than in recent seasons - and as a result I do genuinely think we can win some more games at home. The support has overall been really good given the dire position we are in as a football club (obviously Wycombe it all came apart, but maybe that was the wake-up call these players needed).

If we avoid defeat at the weekend, or - better still - win, it will be one more step to putting us in contention. I wouldn't get too carried away by tonight though. This is the first hurdle we have successfully got over in a god knows how long.

The Baggies is the key one - lose that and we are down regardless of how we do against Leicester, purely from a "wind-in-sails" perspective. Four points from the next two games and we can realistically stay up. Failure to achieve that and we are down.

This is very true., but I would go even further than what you are saying. We need to go unbeaten for the next 4 games and have at least 2 wins in that run to give the team belief. If we lose any of the next 4 I think the confidence will be very fragile again.

Also, from a points perspective, we really need to be in touching distance (i.e. one result ideally, but maybe 4 points say) of safety by then, as our fixtures after the next 4 games start to look really tough. We really need to be on at least 18 points before we face Liverpool on 14th Feb.

Still a very very big ask.

He looked good tonight - I just want to see a little bit more from him going forward. Hopefully with Kozak's movement and Westwood's eye for a pass he might get some assists...

2 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

His distribution of his shirt into the Holte at the end reminded me of Guzan. Misssed the crowd twice bless him. Top player this lad is fast becoming, and with Ayew and Gil we have 3 real gems shinning in the darkness!

This is very true - we've got 3 players now who can make things happen - Ayew with his pace and directness, Gil with his trickery and skill, and Veretout with his drive from deeper and his excellent set pieces. We just need someone to get on the end of things and start banging the goals in...hopefully Kozak is the man...

3 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Man of the Match for me - his positioning as a right back has come on leaps and bounds and I don't think there can be any question that this is now his best position. I thought he was outstanding tonight against a Palace side whose success is based on their wingers. Desire, hard work and some good work on the ball. 

 

Agreed - credit to both him and Cissokho. You just don't feel that we would have seen the same from Richardson and Hutton.

There is still 6 teams in the relegation fight, if you ignore Chelsea on the basis that they will surely put a run of form together at some point.

While you may argue that there is no chance that we will get out of it, and furthermore no chance we will catch Norwich who are still 12 points ahead of us - Newcastle are only 5 points behind them, so they won't feel safe at all.

Our target has to be to catch Sunderland and then to catch Newcastle.

I think the key tonight - and this is a point not only about Lescott - was that when we went in front we defended very well and didn't look like we would concede. We showed a level of determination and organisation which has been lacking most of the season. I don't remember Palace having too many chances after we went in front.

2 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Sure. But the way people are going on in this thread, it's like we don't need to sign a striker any more. Would you rather start Kozak or Austin next game? Or Remy? I'm not knocking him, but 'being better than Gestede' is really a bare minimum. As I said in the Gestede thread, we need a new striker in the team, Kozak on the bench and Gestede on the first train out of Aston. 

I don't think anyone would disagree with you. However based on what we know about our club and Remi's comments about the difficulties attracting players right now - I think people are debating the merits of Kozak Vs Gestede - on the basis that noone else will be joining us.

I don't think either of Okore or Lescott will be displaced. It would be harsh on Bacuna if he is dropped after tonight - but its a nice problem for Remi to have I guess.

9 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

Fair play to him. To get that kind of performance and effort out of players who have been on a terrible run and lacking confidence is some going. Hopefully we can build on this.

It could be a really big result as the longer you go without winning the tougher it is to keep players believing in what you are trying to do. I just wish it could have come a handful of games ago as I think had we have beaten say West Ham, as we arguably deserved to, we may well have gone on to get results at Norwich and Sunderland and things would be looking much different.

This is spot on. We needed this result 4 games ago as it would have put us back pretty much within touching distance immediately. Instead we now need to win the next 2 games just to consider having a chance at all. Still...from small acorns....

His hold up play and touch were no better than Gestede, but his movement is so much better. When he's not on the ball, he's making defenders think and occupying them, which frees up space for others like Ayew.

I still think Gestede has a role to play (from the bench in all likelihood), but the shirt is Kozak's now.

He's now settled in and has the extra strength and turn of pace that you need in the Premier League. Early in the season he looked slow and weak - he's a prime example of a player who just needed to adjust to his new surroundings.

He and the other 2 Jordans are the best thing about our team at the minute. He's really stepped up since getting a regular run in the team.

Amazing what one result can do. Although our confidence is still very fragile, the fans will be right behind Remi and the team on Saturday. Its vital that we don't let Leicester get an early goal and really we need to score first. A defeat on Saturday would undo any good from tonight I think and really take the little wind we have out of our sails.

My man of the match also. Look like a man possessed at times.

3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

The only way we have any chance is by winning 3 of our next 4 games (the winnable ones)

I don't think it will happen. But if it did, then I'd think we had a chance again.

Even then it would still be a very hard ask given our fixtures towards the end of the season.

Agreed...its very unlikely....we are (and have been for the past 4-5 matches) in the position where our next game is always our biggest game of the season.

If we can show the same determination and quality tonight against Leicester on Saturday then we have a chance. The beauty of having Ayew with a partner up front is that we get more bodies in the box. I'm hoping that we might see Veretout making his way into the box a bit more now as well.

4 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

If we win just one of those games I'll be happy.

You must be happy right now then?!

7 minutes ago, WooJung said:

I also made this point in the past.

After tonight's game, do you still think it's Gestede who should be starting?

No I think Kozak did enough to start the next game. However, Kozak did look very rusty and some of his play and his touch was at times very sloppy, and if Gestede had made some of those errors he would have been crucified. Its not surprising though that Kozak is rusty though to be fair. What tonight did highlight is that Kozak's movement is vastly superior to Gestede.

Winning one game was the first step. You have got to think that they have gone into the dressing room full of beans after the match, even if it was a fortunate goal. Kozak and Ayew looked threatening at times, and deserve another chance. And playing both Veretout and Gil gives us more options going forward, and Westwood too looked decent tonight.

We are still in all likelihood too far adrift, but if we manage to get a result against Leicester and are then only 2 wins behind....

Lets also not ignore the fact that we've been a very decent team tonight, and while a draw might have been fairer, its probably about time we got a bit of luck. Palace got the luck against us in the game earlier this season.

I've managed to convince myself again that if we can win tonight against Palace and on Saturday against Leicester then we will be right back in the mix. And then somehow I have rationalised that the 3 games after that (West Brom and West Ham away, and Norwich at home) are all winnable, so by picking up 4 wins and a draw at least, we should be within touching distance of safety.

Our 5 games after that are tough, but I'm not looking that far ahead.

I don't know why I do this to myself. Every time we lose I accept that we will be relegated, and then every time matchday comes around I start thinking crazy.

I think I disagree with most, but I think he has to start, as it frees up Ayew from the target man role to do his thing. The most effective we have looked all season is when we have had a pair of strikers up front, and given our squad and players' individual form - I would play Ayew and Gestede up front with Gil at no.10.