Super-Villan

I only cropped because my main point was about what I have seen on the pitch rather than on the move to Newcastle. We took a high-octane attacking centre mid who then just decided to be laid back? Doesn't wash for me.

To me it's connected. I'm not sure he was ever high octane either.

The lack of desire thing is a myth that came about mainly because of his laid back style on the pitch, in my opinion.

Myth? One man's 'laid back style' is another man's 'lack of desire'. To me the 'lack of desire' thing is not a myth because it's exactly what he showed on the pitch. He didn't have a laid back style at Citeh. That's not what he does. He is a quick attacking centre mid. He's not in the Paul Scholes style of attacking mid. What he has shown at Villa, bearing in mind the style he had at Citeh, tells me he had a lack of desire. Our willingness to ship him out while keeping the likes of Bannan here is another telling detail IMO.

Would help if you hadn't cropped out half of my post. I think what I said about him going to Toon also proves it's not a lack of desire, in contrast to Beye. Our willingness to ship him out could be for a number of reasons, 'a lack of desire' is the one you chose to believe, it's not a solid gold fact.

I doubt we would get 5m for Ireland now. Its almost like hes given up, and its plain for everybody to see.

I'm pretty sure the majority of people would be inclined to give up if they knew they had a talent but their employer wasn't interested. If I was sacked or not put on the rota at work I'd be very disappointed and tempted to give up too.

Quite.

But the fact that Ireland has absolutely no desire whatsoever to turn things round and make the manager consider him speaks volumes.

Where is the desire to succeed?? Its just not there. And i can see why hes not too bothered seeing as hes on 80k a week.

If he had no desire to succeed, then I doubt very much he'd have moved to Newcastle on loan just so he could play. He'd have sat on his cash and done nothing, like Beye.

The lack of desire thing is a myth that came about mainly because of his laid back style on the pitch, in my opinion.

I think that if the main thing a player dislikes about being on the bench is that the bench is uncomfy...then I'm not sure there's much hope for them anyway.

Yep, no chance it will be then I don't think. Possibly Thursday 3rd if they move their game the next Saturday to the Sunday. But even that I'm not sure would happen.

I would have liked to see Bannan come on for Albrighton ast night, with Young going to the left wing and Barry sitting in the whole. At that stage it was worth a shot.

I thought some of the passing was very good tonight, but we lacked a cutting edge. Even when we had 4 strikers on the pitch we weren't exactly going for it. I think there was a general conservatism about our play, often looking for a ball back just to keep posession when in a good position. It was frustrating. Not saying we'd have got a different result had we gone for it more (we may even have got torn apart more) but it's just not an approach I'm keen on.

And like I've said before, even if you want to look at it from a purely mercenary point of view, once we've bought a player with Ireland's problems, it's in our best interests to treat him in a way that gets the best out of him, otherwise we lose money as well as the use of a very talented player.

Top post, Gazton.

Look Ireland hasn't performed due to where we were, niggling injuries and he is a luxury player who does not suit our style due to where we are, his confidence is frail as he's a character who needs to be loved but we spent too long comparing him to Milner. He needs games and we've sent him on loan to do that. Hopefully he comes back in the summer gets into pre-season gets some friendlies and fits into a new style of play.

I hope so too. Actually thought he might benefit from playing with Makoun, with that crisp one-touch passing.

I don't think you can take a month in isolation. I think judging him on his time at the football club so far is the only way to do it.

Not really, we've been doing it for a while.. every month there's a poll which you give your verdict on for the month gone, either yes or a no.. simple really.

Well of course you can do it how you like, and that's all fine and lovely. I was just stating that in my opinion it doesn't make a lot of sense. Simple really.

Yes and I love hearing people's opinion about things, I was giving my opinion back that it does make sense, so yes it is a simple.

Fair enough, I just took the tone of your initial response to be a little condescending. I'm happy to butt out of this thread if others see the point in this and I don't though...

*gone*

Aww poor Stephen, his confidence was shot. Maybe a quick check at his bank balance would help him out. AVFC is not a baby sitting joint mate. In the real world that I work in, if my confidence is bad then its upto ME to sort it out not my boss.

Your right, a lot of the other players were playing poor aswell. But we dont see what goes on behind the scenes do we? GH does, and clearly wasn't happy with it, we have to trust the guy when he says something wasn't right. Did he not vanish at City as well? Maybe he had these kind of problems there..

If you think confidence is related to bank balance then I very very strongly disagree. It's a bit like the arguement that Stan Collymore can't suffer from mental issues because he's loaded. Utterly ridiculous.

If we just have to trust everything GH says then we might as well close down these board really.

Ive no sympathy for SI at all, he was clearly a problem since day 1. Ok GH was prob not right to lay into him infront of the media, but for him to do that he must have been taking the piss..

He must have been taking the piss? Really? You can't see any alternatives?

(It was still the wrong thing to do even if Ireland was taking the piss, to be honest. We'll probably lose a potentially very useful player, of he'd been handled better, for not very much money, and that doesn't benefit Aston Villa any way you want to look at it.)

Cmon' mate, his performances were awful and looked like he couldn't be bothered and had just turned up to be paid. He had obviously had some form of ding dong with GH for him to be ignored. SI obviously has a bad attitude problem, glad he's gone and dont feel sorry for him one little bit.

I disgree. His performances weren't brilliant, but a lot of players - players who'd been at the club much longer - were poor as well. I thought there was some promise there even if stuff wasn't quite coming off. And he didn't look not bothered to me, he looked like someone whose confidence was shot and there was nobody around trying to rebuild it.

I don't think you can take a month in isolation. I think judging him on his time at the football club so far is the only way to do it.

Not really, we've been doing it for a while.. every month there's a poll which you give your verdict on for the month gone, either yes or a no.. simple really.

Well of course you can do it how you like, and that's all fine and lovely. I was just stating that in my opinion it doesn't make a lot of sense. Simple really.

Ive no sympathy for SI at all, he was clearly a problem since day 1. Ok GH was prob not right to lay into him infront of the media, but for him to do that he must have been taking the piss..

He must have been taking the piss? Really? You can't see any alternatives?

(It was still the wrong thing to do even if Ireland was taking the piss, to be honest. We'll probably lose a potentially very useful player, of he'd been handled better, for not very much money, and that doesn't benefit Aston Villa any way you want to look at it.)

I don't think you can take a month in isolation. I think judging him on his time at the football club so far is the only way to do it.

We've had a good month, but I just don't feel confident about Houllier yet to vote yes I'm afraid. The poll needs a less definitive option.

I fear for him at Toon, to be honest. Pardew supposedly isn't much of an arm around the shoulder manager, they've just sold the one decent striker they had that he could provide service for, and they haven't got the technically able players in the middle of the park to get the best out of him (like Man City had in his best spell there: Elano, Robhino etc.)

Good post, Gazton. I hope he gets some confidence back in Newcastle, whether he ends up back here or not.

Any chance of this going through? Only two days of the window left.

Even Barry didn't hand in a transfer request, how's he going to stay there even if they rejected it??.

Same way Adam might stay at Blackpool?

If the poll were rerun it would need another option. Certainly neither of the two current ones reflect my view right now, which is more accepting that we're stuck with him for now and seeing how it goes.

I'm not going to change my mind about Houllier on the back of one good result. We rode out luck a bit today and I wasn't entirely convinced about the way the team was set up, Gabby's role especially.

I don't want to be churlish though. It was a very very good result, and the improved performance of the defence was very encouraging, along with Bent and all the confidence his signing seems to have brought.

I don't think 'Oh diddums' is a particularly helpful reponse to mental problems myself, so I think we're always going to disagree. But as I said, even if you have no sympathy at all, Houllier's actions were still stupid because he was devaluing an £8m asset as well as depriving us of a potentially useful player. You think there are no other prima donas in football who need to be treated in a certain way to get the best out of them? I think you'd be way out if you do, and any really good manager would know how to maximise rather than destroy their assets.

What I said. Houllier publically slated Ireland, and I think that is part of the reason why Ireland has failed to perform for us.

What a load of baloney. Gerard only said he needed to buck his ideas up AFTER he'd playe dhim. It's Irelands fault he's never took a chance to shine

You have to remember, Houllier, MaCallister and Sid see him EVERY day in training. If he's not doing the business there then they're not going to play him are they ?

Especially after he's wasted the chances he HAS had.

He's a useless clearing in the woods.

Right so he's given one match and has to play well or he's publically slated? Like to see that repeated for the rest of the squad this season. Nice to see players allowed time to settle in, as ever.

Ireland clearly has mental issues. Personally I'm sympathetic to that kind of thing. But even if you're not, you should recognise that slagging off a player like Ireland in the press when they are lacking confidence is a bloody stupid thing to do, is never going to result in better performances and (if we have to resort to finances) is going to cost the club money, as well as the services of what could have been a very good player had they been handled better.

I do feel Houllier's treatment of him when he joined is part of the reason why he hasn't performed very well for us though

Eh??

What I said. Houllier publically slated Ireland, and I think that is part of the reason why Ireland has failed to perform for us.

He had a couple of quiet performances before Houllier came, but the whole team was in turmoil remember, and he wasn't anywhere near the only one playing badly then. I think he just needed a run of a few games in the team to find his feet and an arm around his shoulder. Circumstances, and then Houllier's outburst, left him little chance of succeeding. I wish him luck wherever he goes.