Butterfingers

I thought the first half against city was truly horrible and I couldn't see anything positive about it except for the strength the players showed while defending.Critizing the team and the manager for that is more then fair in my opinion. However, to come back from such a horrible preformance and turn it into a 3-2 win is absolutely amazing, and the player and manger deserves all the praise the can get from that. It speaks of great character.

I'm not quite sure how you could criticise either the manager or the players for the 1st half performance?

We were playing one of the best teams in the world, they have the pick of players throughout the world and have an unlimited budget. The previous week, they had scored 4 against Man U & 5 against Wigan. We defended solidly & robustly & whilst we conceded possession, they were restricted to half chances & corners. We nearly got them in at half time at 0-0.

 

 

westwood has lost his place as far as im concerned, players should have to earn it back including tekkers and gabby

 

This

 

I thought he originally lost his place due to injury, but i agree that no-one should be guaranteed a starting place - it has to be earnt and sustained. I'm sure he and Lowton will get back in again.

KEA is a strange one, not a bad player but never been consistent enough or affective enough, but deserves praise for yesterday.

 

I would go a bit further. He was immense at Arsenal & has done well in all games since. Maybe a years experience of the PL has helped him? The same appears to apply with Clark who I don't think has done much wrong since he's come in.

westwood has lost his place as far as im concerned, players should have to earn it back including tekkers and gabby

This

 

also not sure what Okore has done to be labelled one of our best outfield players, he's barely played

 

i'm sure he will be just saying he's not quite earnt that yet.

 

You weren't impressed with the performances for us and with the CL performances v Chelsea then? He is a weapon. Sorry you haven't noticed!

 

Don't think anyone actually said that anyway. The point being that he would have been in the starting 11 if there was a fully fit squad to pick from.

 

PL has had a pretty rough ride this past week

No he hasn't. He has massive support at games and mostly the media write nothing but positive things about him.

A few people share their opinions on this site. If that's a rough ride how would you describe what Mcleish dealt with?

 

I meant exclusively on this site. I've read some crazy stuff over the past few days that beggars belief. The progress has been clear for anyone to see statistics prove this. We have only lost to a team outside the top 7 on one occasion (Newcastle) since mid January yet you'd think we were in dire trouble reading this thread over the past week.

The Mcleish stuff was far worse admittedly but he never had a chance with many from day 1 did he?  I accept it didn't work out but a yardstick I often use is the first 2 seasons Everton had under Moyes. Everton fans were up in arms over the standard of football they played. I honestly think PL & Villa have passed through the worse period & the 8-0 defeats to Chelsea are a thing of the past. We are now at the next stage in the rebuild. I enjoy watching our away games & think we've played some great stuff & contributed to exciting matches. The home form hasn't been great but at some point, I'm convinced we'll turn a corner with this. If we can maintain the away form, we might have a very good side on our hands.

If we have our first team and all players on form, we can beat anybody in the league.

 

I just doubt we will have the first team or all players on form for long periods and I am not sure we have enough quality to back it up.

I'd say we had 4 out yesterday, CB, Gabby, Westwood & Okore. On top of that we were able to drop Lowton.

 

Interesting formation yesterday-I didn't see that coming. Reminded me of the way we played under Brian Little & how well it worked for us then. Its hard to pick out players, I thought they were all superb but the back 3 did exceptionally well considering the pressure we were put under. KEA has been a revelation this season & clearly it's his place to loose at present. The same will hopefully apply with Bacuna who has been excellent in the last 2 games. Kozac is another who has come in & done a job for us.

 

I'm a big fan of the 3 up front that we usually play with but the system yesterday has got me thinking. I know we'll probably use both in the future but I wouldn't like to pick one out of Weiman, Gabby & Kozac to partner CB though.

 

Watching the other teams on MOTD this morning, I didn't see many players outside of the top 8 or so who I would like bought in to replace anyone in our team. I think we're probably a bit stronger than some give us credit for.

Or the Premiership is very poor this season?

 

I'm not in any shape or form trying to detract from our win yesterday because it was a fantastic victory but so far there have been some very strange results and this could be the season that the usual stranglehold at the top may be broken?

 

Think the top 3 all having managerial changes has had something to do with that.

Spurs have now turned the top 4 into a top 5. With Liverpool & Everton looking strong, I think the top 7 will be those teams. After that, I would fancy us to beat any other team in the division. Going back to the 3-3 at Everton in February, with the exception of a draw against Fulham & Wigan & the defeat to Newcastle a couple of weeks back, we've won every game outside of top 7 opponents. That's not bad going at all. 6 points from Arsenal & Man City are bonuses & imagine if we'd have gained the draw that we deserved against Chelsea?

 

Evening all,

Some place this isn't it......second string lose to Spurs in the Cup and dear old Lambo is a dud according to a few. Now, after carrying a fair bit of luck and beating City he is back to being the best thing to happy to Villa.

The point is this - there are going to be highs and lows this season. I think we all understand this. But what I would say is maybe it's about time the critics of the manager - and you were all out in force during the week - take time to appreciate Rome wasn't built in a day.

With Gabby injured and Benteke out he made a massive call to change the formation today and it worked brilliantly. We would not have got away with just one up top with two others supporting them as we have played recently because it would have invited City on us from the first whistle. Playing two up top was always going to occupy their defenders more even although they were always well on top.

The five in midfield were needed and so was three at the back. Tactically, the manager got it right because as much as City have great players were managed to keep it tight and ride our luck when it was required.

Lowton has just discovered if you aren't playing as well as you should then you won't start. Bacuna looks like great business for someone who cost less than £1m, He will have ups and downs like the team but he is a good hungry young player.

Anyway, if you can't enjoy a good night when you beat City at home then when can you! Just think it's worth noting there will be good times and bad this season so lets not get too high when it is good and equally not too low when results don't go as we would have hoped.

UTV.

crikey, if I want a sermon, I'll go to church this morning, thanks. Some of us have been supporting this club for a lot longer than you lot have been on the scene and will have perspectives on the current regime that may not be totally in line with your thinking.

I think this is a site where people are free to express a range of views and should be able to do so without worrying what the club's management think.

 

Think that's a bit harsh Briny. HH made some relevant points & it is true that football suporters can be fickle. PL has had a pretty rough ride this past week & unjustly so IMO. People bought too much into the Spurs result & it is equally important that we don't get carried away after yesterdays result. That said, I don't think theres a drug on this planet that gave the high that full time bought yesterday, the atmosphere in the Holte Suite afterwards was infectious. This is where we are at present & there will be more highs & lows throughout the season.

Losing at home to Newcastle & then beating Man City a couple of weeks later sums it up for me. If we can step it up a notch or two then the consistency will come. 

 

Glad he played well enough today and hopefully proof that another striker was needed at the end of the window. I know many thought a midfielder was the priority but Benteke was always going to miss matches and someone was needed to carry the burden and lead the line. He'll do just fine this season.

I agree with you HH. The only question I have is that why did he bring in Helenius and not a midfielder? He is not the same player as Benteke or Kozak, but still. I guess it could be down to timing, Helenius was available early and other teams were interested in him aswell. Lambert wanted to make sure he got someone good enough to cover for Benteke or his replacement and acquired him. Then Benteke decided to stay and Kozak became available later.

 

This is purely guesswork on my part but my interpretation of what happened is firstly Helenius was bought for pennies on the back of a couple of high scoring seasons in the Danish league. The money spent would not have bought in a midfielder who would have hit the ground running at this level. Helenius is one for the future & if it works out, we will have got an absolute bargain.

Kozac has said in an interview that he spoke with PL a couple of months before he signed. I think we needed to be sure that Bent was gone before committing to this deal.

I think Weiman finished last season lacking his usual confidence & desperately needing a goal. Not once would I criticise his performances though & is always a constant threat to the opposition. Whilst not scoring himself, he has been involved in a lot of our goals. I know people were saying he should perhaps be rested but I'm sure this would not have helped his confidence & besides, his performances have been worthy of him starting.

I always hoped (like many on here) that once he netted, he would kick on & hopefully this will be the case. It's also worth noting that Gabby hasn't got off the mark yet this season either.

Interesting formation yesterday-I didn't see that coming. Reminded me of the way we played under Brian Little & how well it worked for us then. Its hard to pick out players, I thought they were all superb but the back 3 did exceptionally well considering the pressure we were put under. KEA has been a revelation this season & clearly it's his place to loose at present. The same will hopefully apply with Bacuna who has been excellent in the last 2 games. Kozac is another who has come in & done a job for us.

I'm a big fan of the 3 up front that we usually play with but the system yesterday has got me thinking. I know we'll probably use both in the future but I wouldn't like to pick one out of Weiman, Gabby & Kozac to partner CB though.

Watching the other teams on MOTD this morning, I didn't see many players outside of the top 8 or so who I would like bought in to replace anyone in our team. I think we're probably a bit stronger than some give us credit for.

 

 

 

 

This thread is hilarious.

I agree it is premature, but my favorite part is the people so exasperated by the threads existence they cannot help themselves but to post in it, therefore prolonging the existence of the thread.

Comedy in motion.

I actually prefer the "hoilier than thous" - the kind of people who try to make out like they're oh so clever on internet message boards. That's my favourite part & true comedy in motion.

Observations are not allowed? How would you classify your reply?

Pot is on the phone. He wanted you to tell you something about your color.

Couldn't resist could you?

I don't classify my reply with anything If I see an idiotic post that I feel like responding to, I respond. If I see an idiotic post that I don't feel like responding to, I don't respond. What I don't do is try to make out I'm ultra intelligent by observing everything & responding to nothing. What is the point of that on an internet message board apart from proving the theory that there's life after death?

I saw several idiotic posts I chose to respond to. I was unaware you were the arbiter of which idiotic posts get responded to and by who. I will run it by you in the future.

And I will spell color in whatever way I wish .

 

I don't remember claiming to be the arbitrator of anything-Still you know best don't you?

Please feel free to post without running it by me, as I said previously, it's comedy in motion.

 

Good enough to beat Arsenal & Norwich though

You realize what the reverse of your answer is don't you?

 

 

Liverpool

Newcastle

Tottenham

Chelsea

and ill add Man city

 

Yes-Of course I do.

I'm not claiming we're going to win every game.

I believe we will trade blows with a lot of sides this season & finish between 14th & 9th

The point is, we don't play any worse football than the teams in that bracket, our signings are no worse than the teams in that bracket have made & our results are no worse than the teams in that bracket have achieved.

If the team are as bad as TRO is making out, we wouldn't have 6 points chalked up already

Good enough to beat Arsenal & Norwich though

 

 

 

If Lerner is ever going to loosen the purse strings again (and it is a big 'if'), then it will surely become plausible to expect it soon assuming a few things happen this season. There were a few other things that needed to happen in order to fully come out of the mess created by Randy trusting O'Neill too much. Lambert has achieved most of the financial obligations while hopefully putting together a side that can grow and mature together while trying to climb the table. With the likes of Ireland* and Hutton financially gone at the end of the season and hopefully followed by Given & Bent, if we found ourselves sitting midtable with a very pretty wage bill then it would be the ideal situation for Randy to allow Lambert to spend a little more than he has. If however we get to that point and he still only gives him what he has been giving him to date, then we'll know just how interested the owner is. The big variable in all of that is how much Benteke leaves for and how much of that we get - or rather whether it gets added to a pre-existing budget. But basically, this is going to be a very interesting season for more than the usual reasons.* We're not 100% sure how much, if anything, we're paying towards his wages at Stoke.

Lambert has been given a rough net spend of £30m or so to fill out the squad, hopefully if he can get another £15m net spend next summer plus £35m for Benteke we could really start bringing in some special talent in more than one key area. Of course this is all ifs and buts but it seems the most logical way at looking at how things have been going these past 14 months or so, rather than panicking that the club has no interest in progressing any more.

 

You need to understand that it doesn't matter if we get £100 million for Benteke, we will only be signing the same standard of player due to the wage structure. The people claiming that there are bargains at £2.2 million are either high on drugs or are living in cloud cuckoo land.

.......Defeatist

With that attitude we would never of found Benteke or even Dwight Yorke, Andy Gray would have been dismissed as too cheap and David Platt something similar.

I just don't buy your excuses.

I fully support Lambert, but there will come a time when he will be accountable and the quality or quantity debate will be aired...some of these signings will have to come off, (despite the modest fee's) in order for the fans/owner to have faith in progression.

 

I fully support the manager & the players. I've said on this thread that there's a challenge. It might not be to get into the CL but we still have a challenge to improve on last season & continue moving forwards for the first time in 3 seasons.

I'm sure Lambert would prefer the war chest that Man City have but he accepted the job on the terms Lerner laid down (which in laymans terms was "I've f####d up & I want my money back")

So far you've named one player for £2.2 million that was way out of our reach. You'd probably never heard of any of our summer signings before they came here yet you are now an authority on who shouldn't have been signed.

Why not tell us who you would have bought with the £12 million Lambert spent-Remember £20K a week maximum wage

 

If Lerner is ever going to loosen the purse strings again (and it is a big 'if'), then it will surely become plausible to expect it soon assuming a few things happen this season. There were a few other things that needed to happen in order to fully come out of the mess created by Randy trusting O'Neill too much. Lambert has achieved most of the financial obligations while hopefully putting together a side that can grow and mature together while trying to climb the table. With the likes of Ireland* and Hutton financially gone at the end of the season and hopefully followed by Given & Bent, if we found ourselves sitting midtable with a very pretty wage bill then it would be the ideal situation for Randy to allow Lambert to spend a little more than he has. If however we get to that point and he still only gives him what he has been giving him to date, then we'll know just how interested the owner is. The big variable in all of that is how much Benteke leaves for and how much of that we get - or rather whether it gets added to a pre-existing budget. But basically, this is going to be a very interesting season for more than the usual reasons.* We're not 100% sure how much, if anything, we're paying towards his wages at Stoke.

Lambert has been given a rough net spend of £30m or so to fill out the squad, hopefully if he can get another £15m net spend next summer plus £35m for Benteke we could really start bringing in some special talent in more than one key area. Of course this is all ifs and buts but it seems the most logical way at looking at how things have been going these past 14 months or so, rather than panicking that the club has no interest in progressing any more.

 

You need to understand that it doesn't matter if we get £100 million for Benteke, we will only be signing the same standard of player due to the wage structure. The people claiming that there are bargains at £2.2 million are either high on drugs or are living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

 

This thread is hilarious.

I agree it is premature, but my favorite part is the people so exasperated by the threads existence they cannot help themselves but to post in it, therefore prolonging the existence of the thread.

Comedy in motion.

I actually prefer the "hoilier than thous" - the kind of people who try to make out like they're oh so clever on internet message boards. That's my favourite part & true comedy in motion.

Observations are not allowed? How would you classify your reply?

Pot is on the phone. He wanted you to tell you something about your color.

 

Couldn't resist could you?

I don't classify my reply with anything If I see an idiotic post that I feel like responding to, I respond. If I see an idiotic post that I don't feel like responding to, I don't respond. What I don't do is try to make out I'm ultra intelligent by observing everything & responding to nothing. What is the point of that on an internet message board apart from proving the theory that there's life after death?

This thread is hilarious.

I agree it is premature, but my favorite part is the people so exasperated by the threads existence they cannot help themselves but to post in it, therefore prolonging the existence of the thread.

Comedy in motion.

I actually prefer the "hoilier than thous" - the kind of people who try to make out like they're oh so clever on internet message boards. That's my favourite part & true comedy in motion.

 

 

 

Regarding the way we play.

Some stats from the mirror that some may find interesting.

Villa have had the most flick-ons with 64 so far - thanks largely no doubt to Christian Benteke's aerial prowess.

They are also the third ranked team in terms of playing long passes with these attributing to 15 per cent of their distribution.

And they have launched the ball up the pitch 153 times so far playing hopeful long balls, which is the third highest total in the top-flight.

Guess who are the only side to be bracketed with Villa in all three categories?

Yes, West Ham, who are widely regarded as the biggest exponents of long ball football in the top-flight under Big Sam Allardyce.

And yet some people seem to think that it is the most ridiculous statement to say we use long ball tactics

Yet others believe everything they read in the Mirror

Those stats are taken from Opta.

Are you suggesting the mirror have lied and lied about where the stats are from?

 

I'm suggesting that the Mirror is akin to the Beano - I take everything that's written in both comics with a pinch of salt.

I didn't read anyone moaning when Gareth Barry used to continually launch the ball in the general direction of Carews bonce either

Also, as the poster above you rightly says-How can you formulate a true stat after 5 games? Playing Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool is a bit different to playing  3 mid table sides.

 

Regarding the way we play.

Some stats from the mirror that some may find interesting.

 

Villa have had the most flick-ons with 64 so far - thanks largely no doubt to Christian Benteke's aerial prowess.

They are also the third ranked team in terms of playing long passes with these attributing to 15 per cent of their distribution.

And they have launched the ball up the pitch 153 times so far playing hopeful long balls, which is the third highest total in the top-flight.

Guess who are the only side to be bracketed with Villa in all three categories?

Yes, West Ham, who are widely regarded as the biggest exponents of long ball football in the top-flight under Big Sam Allardyce.

And yet some people seem to think that it is the most ridiculous statement to say we use long ball tactics

 

Yet others believe everything they read in the Mirror

 

 

 

When you spend c 20 million on the likes of bent with his limitations....it's not just the size of the budget that's the problem.its more to do with the quality of the signing.

There are oodles of examples of players like sissoko signed for 2.2 mill

We simply sign lightweight midfielders in the main.

 

I think in fairness, Sissoko is on around £40K a week

He's on a lot more than that probably in the region of 70,000.

Then the problem, is clear.

 

Well the problem certainly isn't that the manager missed out on signing him as you seemed to insinuate in your "Sissoko went for £2.2 million" post.

 

 

 

 

 

 

£40k is a fairly average wage-packet by Premier League standards.

 

Wouldn't disagree but if the manager is told that he can't offer those sort of sums to players then you can hardly blame him for not signing him can you?

No I suppose not. Just another stark reminder of what we've been reduced to under Lerner.

 

I'd go further. Its not just a stark reminder, it is the root of the problem.

 

We tried to shave the wage bill too quickly last year, relied on kids & quite possibly got away with it due to Wigans FA Cup run. Newcastle were in a similar situation to us & backed their manager to buy his way out of trouble in January. PL was not given that luxuary. 

 

For me, instead of having mercinaries like Sissoko, we have hungry players like Sylla instead. They want to be here, are happy & honoured to be here & will put a shift in for the cause. That statement Sylla made sums the attitude up for me "even if I'm not playing,their joy is my joy & their pain is my pain".

 

This is where we are. We still have challenges. We may not be going for top 4 but we still want to finish as high as possible. The team spirit seems excellent, the players don't seem phased by big star names & we're giving it a go. I really struggle to understand so much negativity.

Look, we are either talking about the technical side of the game or not you arguement is jumping around about mercenaries, budgets, attitudes and who would you buy.....these guys are paid 1mill per annum to know who to sign.

Whether lambert's signings do turn out to be ok or not ,time will tell

Right now it's Low grade.

Ps no, I don't want the manager out or anyone else, just saying its poor.

 

We are talking about many things-The thread isn't exclusive to your misguided opinions.

 

The problem is that many people love to go to football just to moan. They are usually the ones who least understand the game as well funnily enough.

Loan me your glasses.

 

No need mate-You've cracked it:

Pay a guy a million & he'll know who to sign-Wages & budgets clearly don't matter

 

 

 

 

£40k is a fairly average wage-packet by Premier League standards.

 

Wouldn't disagree but if the manager is told that he can't offer those sort of sums to players then you can hardly blame him for not signing him can you?

No I suppose not. Just another stark reminder of what we've been reduced to under Lerner.

 

I'd go further. Its not just a stark reminder, it is the root of the problem.

 

We tried to shave the wage bill too quickly last year, relied on kids & quite possibly got away with it due to Wigans FA Cup run. Newcastle were in a similar situation to us & backed their manager to buy his way out of trouble in January. PL was not given that luxuary. 

 

For me, instead of having mercinaries like Sissoko, we have hungry players like Sylla instead. They want to be here, are happy & honoured to be here & will put a shift in for the cause. That statement Sylla made sums the attitude up for me "even if I'm not playing,their joy is my joy & their pain is my pain".

 

This is where we are. We still have challenges. We may not be going for top 4 but we still want to finish as high as possible. The team spirit seems excellent, the players don't seem phased by big star names & we're giving it a go. I really struggle to understand so much negativity.

Look, we are either talking about the technical side of the game or not you arguement is jumping around about mercenaries, budgets, attitudes and who would you buy.....these guys are paid 1mill per annum to know who to sign.

Whether lambert's signings do turn out to be ok or not ,time will tell

Right now it's Low grade.

Ps no, I don't want the manager out or anyone else, just saying its poor.

 

We are talking about many things-The thread isn't exclusive to your misguided opinions.

The problem is that many people love to go to football just to moan. They are usually the ones who least understand the game as well funnily enough.

 

 

 

 

 

All keepers will go long when under pressure from a back pass. The insinuation from the original post was that our tactic is to hoof the ball up to Benteke. This has now progressed to Guzan going long from passbacks. What would you prefer Guzan attempting to nutmeg Saurez or Van Persie?

Most of the time he is not under pressure though, it is when there isn't enough movement from the outfield players. The fact that it it was the most successful passing combination last yr (for us) would indicate that our tactic more often than not is to hoof it up.

Given they were both almost ever presents, the ratio will be high. Its probably the same for most if not all teams given the amount of times a keeper kicks over the half way line so I wouldn't put too much faith in that particular statistic.

Regarding being under pressure, he always has angles either side of him & when not under pressure, that's where the ball goes. It is only when under pressure that it goes long.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

If you really think that Guzan goes long when its passed back to him and is not under pressure then not only shall we disagree but we clearly watch 2 different games.

Success rate of a ball out to a defender 99%?

Success rate of a hoof into the opponents half 20-30%

Must be watching different, but then I'm not the only one who has said this.

Those stats also prove nothing (not sure where you have got them from). As I said the initial pass can be to a defender but then it is passed back to Guzan when the opposition sit back and we have a lack of movement so guzan then launches th ball towards Benteke. It may be different on Saturday, as Benteke isn't there, but I'd be very surprised if it is (even though saying that city do press high so guzan will probably be under more pressure than usual).

 

Anyone who thinks our tactic is to hoof the ball is really not worth arguing with mate.

I've read some crap on this thread but that claim is just about the most ridiculous & trust me-There have been some ridiculous comments recently.