Dave J

24 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

That's the good thing about school holidays - you have so much spare time on your hands. 

23 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Get used to it, pal. 

Oh hello - given you've not had your finest hour recently - maybe a little bit of humility may serve you well on here. One would suspect 

32 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Yeah man

If that's the best you can come up with - I think you have conceded your point ?

1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Obsessed.

 

Gabby 2012-2017

Hogan 2017 - Present

?????

Good grief BFHV - with the greatest of respect that's a tad rich coming from you - given your constant berating of anyone  posting derogatory comments about Bruce - would you not think?

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

Its literally like you've not read a single word i've posted on this thread. I don't know how to proceed. 

I'm so confused. 

I really don't need you too - you have your view and you clearly think that it's the correct view - you are entitled to it - we are not actually that far apart.

1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Obsessed.

 

Gabby 2012-2017

Hogan 2017 - Present

?????

What.

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

Wow this is so much harder than it needs to be. 

I agree with your point that Bruce is to blame for signing him. 

Others made a point to say that it was Bruce's tactics and management that ruined Hogan. I disagreed with that. You then seem to keep arguing with me even though we both agree with the point you're making and you don't seem to disagree with my point. You seem angry that in the Scott Hogan thread i'm talking about Hogan and not throwing it all on Steve Bruce. 

Its a really strange debate to be part of. 

Do you believe Hogan is a quality player and that the tactics of Bruce are to blame for his abysmal performances?

I have no anger whatsoever - for what my opinion of Hogan is worth I believe him to be a championship player who will again score at that level.

What interests me is why you and others care to make the judgement that Hogan is a poor footballer and that Bruce escapes any  responsibility  for making a decision to sign a player who you clearly think is a poor footballer - you can't have it both ways - Bruce surely watched him? And went ahead with the signing - this makes Bruce completely culpable in the whole deal.

  my point is only this - you simply cannot separate the fact Bruce paid £ 12 mill on a player who did not perform - why even would you want to excuse him wasting this money. He is to blame for the whole saga - He was manager who agreed this deal. It's happened before and will happen again - but the buck stops four square with the person who signed the player?

Its totally irelevant what anyone thinks of Hogan - Bruce messed up and that is the only thing that I have any interest in.

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

It will only go on for ever if you ignore the point I'm making. 

So you agree with me? He takes the blame for being part of the group that signed him but Hogan's poor ability as a footballer are down to him not bruce. 

Because the point is that Bruce spent 12 million on a player that he could not incorporate into his team - surely as an Aston Villa fan - your interest starts and stops here - what else concerns you - Bruce wasted 12 mill - there can only be him to blame in this sorry saga as far as I can see?

15 hours ago, DCJonah said:

Where did I excuse Bruce for his part? I've criticised him numerous times for this signing, and said he is responsible m.

But it isn't his fault Hogan is shit. 

This could go on for ever - no Bruce is not responsible for a players ability - he is however responsible for the recruitment and purchase and integration into the team and it's playing style.

Bruce failed miserably and for this he takes the blame. Surely as Aston Villa  fans this is where our interest stops?

35 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

It is impossible to not separate them. 

One is about the talent of the player and the other about bringing him to the club. They're 2 completely different issues.  

The way I see the situation is this - Regardless of Hogan's ability and everyone has a view on this.

Bruce spent £12million of our clubs money on a player he couldn't get a tune out of - as an Aston Villa fan this is the only thing that really concerns me. Why on earth would you want to excuse Bruce his role in the whole sorry saga.

From a personal standpoint I believe Hogan will again Score goals at his current level.

2 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

It's literally exactly what you said

He's to blame for the signing. He's not to blame for Hogan's lack of ability.

Hogan wasn't an amazing player who we made shit. He's a shit player that we shouldn't have signed and paid way too much for. That's Bruce's fault. The shitness part isn't.

It's impossible to separate the two - 

on your basis Hogan must have been a rubbish footballer before Bruce signed him - so whose fault is it that the man cannot spot a footballer when he see's one.

He is totally to blame for wasting £12  mill of our money 

20 hours ago, DCJonah said:

You won't find many fans who enjoy criticising Bruce more than me, however there is no way anyone can blame bruce's tactics for Scott Hogan being awful. 

Not many villa players have had myths built up around them than Hogan. World class movement and goals given the right service all became laughable the more he played. 

One 30 game spell of being good in the championship. That's because he isn't very good, nothing to do with Bruce. 

Now if you want to complain about a panic signing and a complete waste of money, then Bruce takes some of the blame. 

 

Sorry I disagree - did Bruce do his homework on Hogan ?if yes then of course Bruce is to blame - who else can be blamed - if he didn't do his homework he is even more culpable imo 

On 12/08/2019 at 16:12, Stevo985 said:

Yeah I've mentioned that I think this is the main reason for people like Taylor and Elmo playing on Saturday. Trying to keep the upheaval to a minimum.

Bed a few players in where we have no choice, then ease the rest in.

I fully expect players like Guilbert, Targett and Luiz to be first choice soon (assuming they're not crap! )

 

Oh dear - the laughing icon you chose. - has only confirmed that you really don't fully appreciate what you have written here imo 

I honestly think it's impossible to pick our best 11 just yet.

None of us really know how good many of our signings are.

I thought Wesley was extremely poor against Spuds as was Jota - I don't think I will be saying the same after 10 - 12 games though.

I've said to friends that in my view - it will either go very badly wrong and we'll struggle from the outset - or we'll click and enjoy a half decent season - the Spuds game makes me believe it will be the latter.

2 minutes ago, jimbob80 said:

Loved reading the last few pages .Good old villa fans, righting off a young player in a new league against champions league finalists in his first game. Well done

I have no issue with fans commenting on his performance - I thought he looked poor - however I totally agree with you - to write him off after one game is folly imo 

3 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

Yeah I've mentioned that I think this is the main reason for people like Taylor and Elmo playing on Saturday. Trying to keep the upheaval to a minimum.

Bed a few players in where we have no choice, then ease the rest in.

I fully expect players like Guilbert, Targett and Luiz to be first choice soon (assuming they're not crap! )

 

I'm not completely convinced you fully appreciate just what you've said here

5 hours ago, Daweii said:

Play like we did yesterday against Bournemouth and we'll dismantle them. Spurs are just another level entirely, I mean they are challenging for the title this season and might even win it. So for us to go there and compete for 73 minutes before they equalised is nothing to scoff at. Most teams in this league will go to that stadium and lose, we will likely see teams like Liverpool and Man city go to that stadium and lose this season so we did pretty well. This league isn't as hard as Spurs made it out to look, the only thing yesterday told us is that we're not vying for Top 4 this season, but I think we all knew that anyway.

I'm not as convinced as you that we will dismantle Bournemouth or anyone else for that matter - I do however think I saw enough yesterday to believe we can compete in the premier league this season.

I would say this - I do hope you are right and I am totally off base.

4 hours ago, QldVilla said:

There's definitely a player in there, just thought he was a little naive and petulant at times. Considering the opposition thought he did ok, and the coaching staff will have him working on those little issues.

I didn't see anything in him to suggest there is a player in there 

However in no way would I judge him based on this game alone - there are many mitigating circumstances and far easier days at the office to come.

We just have to keep faith and allow him time to hopefully find his feet.

14 hours ago, Stuartc445 said:

You say you're not making excuses for him then you go on and make an excuse for him.  So "Bruceball" didn't suit him. Bruce got sacked and nothing changed so does that mean Smithball and WilderBall didn't suit him either. i'll do some analysing for you Scott Hogan is a rubbish footballer that has had a few months of form in his whole career and that has blinded some people to what the rest of his career has been like.

He'll score goals again in the championship in my view - he needs game time and confidence will come back with this game time.

On 04/08/2019 at 18:27, Xela said:

He's English so he would never be considered by the big media darling clubs. 

England national team on the other hand...

He has got to be in a strong position should he want it - crikey they interviewed Bruce and gave the job to a fellow dinosaur !

8 hours ago, jim said:

Heaton.

I think most of the other lads will take time to settle. 

I guess this is our biggest worry - as long as we stay in touch until they do - I am confident we'll be fine thereafter 

26 minutes ago, A'Villan said:

Bruce has done okay in the Premier League before, he got Sunderland 10th. That's their 2nd highest finish in the PL I think.

Sunderland board expected European placing with the squad they had and he was subsequently let go as a result.

He's not the worst manager in the world, so it wouldn't surprise me if they survived, but they'll be bottom end I suspect.

Exactly this = average, everything about the man = bang average.

Mings or Jota for me.

23 hours ago, tinker said:

That's telling me we need to swap or sell players to get anymore in ,maybe Hogan back to Brentford? 

I agree - I've felt all along Scott would end up back there 

4 hours ago, TRO said:

Some folk don't like it Dave....think its showing off and in reality I'm too old for that....suffice to say I met my wife with "The box of Toys" and still happily married now so Andy, Jake and Bobby Mac certainly helped.

Better get back to Leighton.....I would say he was instrumental in helping the Villa find their way back to respectability, with the team he was in.

TRO - someday I'd like to share a beer with you - anyhow back to Leighton Phillips, again I agree TRO.

Twice in one day - this will never do