NormandyVillan

Really shit game tonight...should have been a classic, but both teams were playing not to lose. Depressing approach to say the least.

Agree on the whole, but Spain at least looked like they were trying to win it in the last ten minutes of extra time.

Portugal by then were getting on my nerves with their backpasses to the goalkeeper who always wasted as much time as he could before clearing it. So towards the end I went from being more or less neutral / slightly pro-Portugal to wanting Spain to win.

Like most of Spain's games though, it was a disappointing spectacle.

lets face it, an international player in any position should have the skill to place a ball with power into any part of the net.

That's what I've always thought. Why don't players just practise hitting the ball hard into the top corner? Once you've mastered that, you can just step up and do it in a match. You wpn't have to worry about the keeper guessing where you're going to put it, because he won't be able to save it even if he does.

I seem to remember Shearer doing that with penalties for England in 1996. Is it harder than you might think even for top professionals?

this could be a thriller tonight.

Anybody have money on Holland being 1st team out?

Could happen, but requires Holland to lose and Denmark to win or draw against Portugal.

My money would be on Ireland tomorrow for 1st team out.

Who was that little shit Nasri doing the finger on lips gesture to when he scored?

the england fans.

Ah...I thought it might have been Lescott.

No, the gesture was directed at French journalists (particularly at L'Equipe) who have criticised his performances for France . He said so himself after the match.

He was lip-read as saying "Ferme ta gueule! Vous tous, ferme ta gueule!" ('Shut your gob. All of you, shut your gob!")

The L'Equipe journalist in Ukraine didn't seem too bothered about it after the match. He commented that if Nasri had scored the winning goal in the final he would have more reason to claim revenge, but scoring an equaliser in a slightly disappointing draw in a group game was no big deal as far as revenges go. So there...

If he DOES score the winning goal in the final, then I suppose he might have another go at them. Then the journalists will claim they did a good job in spurring him on, and everyone will be happy...

I don't get why so many people are calling for this thread to be locked.

Isn't last season under McLeish still a Villa-related topic that some people might want to talk about?

Can't those not interested in the topic simply not click on the thread?

Won't it just drop down the pages of its own accord once no one is interested any more?

i doubt we are getting much to spend this summer, we made a £50m loss last year.

Even with our wages reduced by £10-20m, we're still a loss-making business, and are striving for a path of sustainability.

I would guess £10-12m to spend, plus money from any sales.

Then you'll be pleased and delighted.

Ok, that's enough.. Stop it.

Just. Stop.

No! We want to know!

What's the figure? Give us another clue!

How many noughts do we have to add on?

Will we be getting Messi AND Ronaldo, or just the one of them?

"I have loved my 3 years at the club and it sadness me to right this but want use to here it from me first #lovedmytime"

I can't believe that's genuine. No one could pack that much bad spelling into a single sentence unless they were doing it as a joke.

is it actually done yet ?

I can't join the love until hes officially signed !

peace and love man. Feel the love, join the love, experience the love!

I'm diggin' it man...

When Paul is round at Randy’s house

And Jupiter aligns with Mars

Then peace will guide the Villa

And love will steer our stars

This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius

Age of Aquarius

Aquarius!

Aquarius!

Harmony and understanding

Sympathy and trust abounding

No more falsehoods or derision

Golden trophies are our vision

Lambert’s timely resignation

Is Villa's true liberation

Aquarius!

Aquarius!

Let the sunshine, let the sunshine in, the sunshine in

Let the sunshine, let the sunshine in, the sunshine in

Let the sunshine, let the sunshine in, the sunshine in

Oh, let it shine, c'mon

Now everybody just sing along

Let the sun shine in...

What a refreshing change, considering all the abuse RL & PF received based on nothing, I hope they get some credit if it all comes off ok...

Just comical.

One potentially good decision doesn't make up for two years of bad ones or mean the last two years didn't happen.

I get the impression VillaForever was referring only to the last couple of weeks. Yes they royally ballsed up the last 2 appointments and highly deserved the flack they received. That's made everyone nervous and edgy this time around, but some of the drivel being thrown around at both RL & PF, especially in the last week, has been over the top.

That about right, VF1970?

That's the way I understood it as well.

Martinez (Wigan):

P 114 W 29 D 34 L 51 F 119 A 202 Pts 121

McLeish (Birmingham):

P 100 W 26 D 35 L 39 F 108 A 145 Pts 113

Win percentage: Martinez 25.43 %, McLeish 26 % (McLeish better)

Loss percentage: Martinez 44.74 %, McLeish 39 % (McLeish better)

Goals scored per game: Martinez 1.04, McLeish 1.08 (McLeish better)

Goals conceded per game: Martinez 1.77, McLeish 1.45 (McLeish better)

Points per game: Martinez 1.06, McLeish 1.13 (McLeish better)

but key stat

McLeish 2-0 Martinez on relegation and nearly made it 3 with Villa

I mentioned the relegations in my post. And it's a fine line if we want to talk about what "nearly" happened. The season before last, Wigan rode their luck in their last game at Stoke and survived at Birmingham's expense. If they'd lost that it would have been 1-1 on relegations (1 out of 2 for Martinez compared to 1 out of 3 for McLeish).

I think looking at managers' overall record is at least as valid as looking at the "bottom line" of whether they stayed up/went down.

And there's not much to get enthusiastic about in Martinez's record. It's sort of like McLeish's record with a few scores like 0-6, 0-8 and 1-9 thrown in to make it "interesting".

I thought it might be interesting to compare Martinez’s premiership record at Wigan with McLeish’s premiership record at Birmingham before joining Villa:

Martinez (Wigan):

P 114 W 29 D 34 L 51 F 119 A 202 Pts 121

McLeish (Birmingham):

P 100 W 26 D 35 L 39 F 108 A 145 Pts 113

Win percentage: Martinez 25.43 %, McLeish 26 % (McLeish better)

Loss percentage: Martinez 44.74 %, McLeish 39 % (McLeish better)

Goals scored per game: Martinez 1.04, McLeish 1.08 (McLeish better)

Goals conceded per game: Martinez 1.77, McLeish 1.45 (McLeish better)

Points per game: Martinez 1.06, McLeish 1.13 (McLeish better)

Despite just about managing to stay up each year (unlike McLeish, of course), it seems that Martinez has otherwise been even less successful than McLeish had been at the time he joined Villa, on just about every score (even at winning games and scoring goals!).

It might be argued that Birmingham are a bigger club than Wigan with more resources (or were...), but the comparison is still not very flattering for Martinez.

the positive thing is I think the fans will give whoever time and a chance without the pressure of being top 6 .

Following ONeil was always going to be difficult 6th and less cash with a tired squad then season after arguably our 2 best players leave it was even worse ? Then we stay up by the skin of our pants god awful football same old rocket polishers playing up so new bloke can come in clear the dead wood out build a platform . We only need to finish mid table and be a bit more positive and it will bed him for a challenge season after .

This is why getting the Villa job would be a good situation for Solskjaer:

1) The vast majority of fans are going to welcome him with open arms.

2) At the same time, few people will have massive expectations in terms of immediate results. People will see it as a point where we turn a page and try to build something new. After last season, just steering clear of the relegation zone and playing some half-decent football would be enough for at least a season.

I hope we get a chance to see what he can do.

If it is indeed the pun I think it is

I must be dim because I can't work out what the pun is.

Our away record against teams below the top six and above the bottom three is: Won 0 Drawn 9 Lost 0. Making it ten out of ten would be so neat.

That is so unimpressive, it's impressive.

Indeed. McLeish already has:

* The highest number of away draws in a season in Villa's history (10)

* The equal highest number of draws (home and away) in a season in Villa's history (17). Will be the highest ever if we draw at Norwich.

* The equal highest ever number of draws by any team in the Premier League. Will be the highest ever if we draw at Norwich.

A proud record indeed, full of gritty 0-0 and 1-1 triumphs. These are the positives we should be focusing on instead of moaning just because he's broken one or two records for not actually winning in the technical sense of the term.

I'd love another draw.

Our away record against teams below the top six and above the bottom three is: Won 0 Drawn 9 Lost 0. Making it ten out of ten would be so neat.

Normally of course McLeish would be looking for a solid 0-0 here, but now we're safe I've got a feeling he might let his hair down and go for a 1-1. Could be a real cracker.

I was born in 1991, Started supporting Villa when I was about 10/11. And I have to say this is the worst season as a Villa fan, Yes its been record breaking, but for all the wrong reasons . I want the AVFC that I fell in love with back!

1991? So it looks like we're on course for fewest wins, fewest goals and fewest points since before you were born...

(That reminds me, I forgot to mention points: our lowest points total in the Premier League is already in the bag after yesterday. I suppose that would be another stat to list under "satisfactory progress, could do better").

Should we fail to win against Norwich McLeish will have the lowest win percentage of any Villa manager ever. He has the joint lowest at the moment.

Not trying to defend him or anything, but oddly enough, if we win or draw at Norwich (well, if we draw, I mean...), and he resigns / is sacked before the start of next season, he will also have left with the lowest away defeat percentage of any Villa manager ever.

How we'll miss him if that happens. The king of the boring away draw will be gone.

Someone correct me if I’m wrong here, but it seems to me that this season we have seen:

* The fewest Villa home wins in a season (4) EVER since the Football League was created in 1888.

* The equal fewest Villa home League goals (20) EVER (equalling O’Leary’s last season and O’Neill’s first).

* If we fail to win our last game, the equal fewest Villa wins overall in a season (7) EVER (equalling our 7 wins in only 22 games in 1889-90 and 1890-91). Or, if we somehow win at Norwich, our fewest since 1986-87.

* Unless we score 5 at Norwich (hmmm...) the fewest goals scored by Villa in a season since 1969-70, and the fewest EVER in the top flight.

* The equal highest number of draws by any team in a Premier League season (17), a record we already share; or, if we draw yet again in our last game, the highest ever.

* Possibly some other records I have missed?

All I can say is, thank God we’ve been so awfully good at drawing. Otherwise I might have been tempted to say this has been a somewhat poor season by our standards...

3-0 WBA

If that happens, I dread to think what the reaction on here is going to be.

Until this week, in spite of everything, McLeish had generally avoided shockingly poor results in individual matches. The worst League results had been the 1-2 against WBA (where he was let off the hook by the fact it was our first home defeat and was with 10 men), and the 0-2 against Swansea (where he was let off the hook by the fact we had won at Chelsea two days earlier). Other than those games, no matter how poor the performance, it had always been a case of either “well, they are a top team” or “well, at least we got a point”.

Now we’ve had the dismal loss at home to Bolton. If McLeish follows that up with a dismal defeat in the derby at West Brom, he’ll be breaking new ground in terms of unpopularity.

Until recently we were that dull lower-mid-table team who played dire football, lost to all the “big” teams and got draws against nearly everyone else (we all remember those heady days of “satisfactory progress” at the beginning of 2012...). Now we’re in danger of becoming that crap, once-great club that slumps pathetically to relegation amid general derision.

It’s time to step up again, Alex. We need at the very least one of those battling 0-0 or 1-1 wins you used to be so good at. And you know what, it would be even better if we got one of those “special wins”... you know, one of those crazy, over-the-top, extravagant sort of wins where you go completely wild and actually score more goals than the other team. Could we have one of those, please?

If we win are guaranteed to stay up?

Not guaranteed, but it would very probably be enough. It would mean we would probably stay up even if we lost the last two.

Can't see us getting anything here, Albion will be creaming themselves over the prospect of doing the double over us and finishing above us for the first time since dinosaurs roamed the Earth. We have to go for the win, one win out of these last three games seems nigh-on impossible especially after last night but one would pretty much guarantee safety and it would be sweet to do it at The Poorthorns but I don't think there's much chance to be honest.

The one crumb of comfort is that so far (quite amazingly) we haven't actually lost an away game against any team outside the top 5. Apart from said top 5 (who have all beaten us), our away record is played 12, won 3, drawn 9 lost 0.

However, the way this season is going, I'm fully expecting even this crumb of comfort to turn to dust on Saturday.

Biggest game since Rotterdam 82

That's complete bollocks, you cant actually believe that.

It's just a pity for Barcelona and Chelsea that their Champions League semi is going to be largely forgotten about tomorrow.

Worldwide viewing figures of two billion plus expected for the "Thrilla at the Villa".

That was another very poor performance on Saturday, but it did remind me that we have been a poor team playing boring negative football for quite some time now.

On December 27, 2009, in O’Neill last season, we went to the Emirates in 4th place in the League with 35 points from18 games. Hopes were high at that point, but we went away with a 3-0 defeat having been even more negative and created even less in attack than we did on Saturday under McLeish (which is saying something). The only positive thing that could be said about the performance back then was that the defence was reasonably competent, and managed to frustrate Arsenal for an hour before Fabregas came on and the goals started going in. We probably “deserved” to keep the score down to 2-0 that day (if you can deserve anything for being so negative), and until they scored there was always a chance we could hold out for a 0-0. It was still very poor though, and as a spectacle the match was even worse to watch than on Saturday.

For me, that game was the beginning of the end of the dream of Villa becoming a top club for the foreseeable future. With just a few exceptions, every time I have seen Villa play since then, the performance has been somewhere between poor and inept, and sorely lacking in creativity. Under O’Neill, MacDonald, Houiller, McAllister and McLeish, it’s all been largely the same.

Having said that, McLeish has probably made things even worse. He has innovated by introducing “total negativity” even in home games (such as that dreadful showing against Man City), and there is a fragility about the defence which makes the whole exercise seem not just boring but totally pointless.

So my "defence" of McLeish here is limited. I don't blame him for making Villa "boring" (we already were), but I would say he he has aggravated the situation.

We're not safe yet, but I think some people are exaggerating the danger. It's true we're only 7 points above the relegation zone, but we're also 7 points above the teams in 16th and 17th. That means that, for Villa to be relegated not just one but THREE teams currently below us have to make up a 7-point gap (and that probably means gettng 8 points more than Villa because they all have a significantly inferior goal difference).

I can well imagine one of the poor teams below us going on a decent run and overtaking us, or even two of them, but three? I think it would take a real slump by Villa, with results much worse even than what we've seen so far, for that to happen.

So talk of absolutely having to get 10 points from the next 4 games is really quite exaggerated. I'd say if we win at Wigan we can probably stop worrying. Looking at the other teams' fixtures, that would most likely put us 10 points above the relegation zone with 12 games left. We'd probably be one win and a couple of boring draws from safety.

Having said that, the way this season is going, I will certainly not be surprised if we draw or lose at Wigan, in which case the nagging fears will remain.

Great game but some of the penalty shouts and diving within the game was quite shocking..

Great performance by Webb for United. Had a quiet first half and must have been disappointed with himself for missing a good chance to award a penalty, but second half he was simply brilliant. Led United's comeback from 3-0 down by conjuring two goals out of absolutely nothing.

Seriously though, I hate seeing that sort of stuff. I saw Evra in an interview admitting quite frankly that he'd deliberately put his foot in the Chelsea player's way to draw the "foul", and the second penalty was even worse. Welbeck stuck his leg back quite a long way to put it between the defender's legs to get himself "tripped". Adam Johnson for City against Fulham was just as bad. Games ruined by cheating.