GlastonSpur

I don't know whether or not Spurs will offer up Defoe for sale (probably they will, but personally I hope they won't), or whether Defoe wants to leave Spurs (probably he does, on balance, given the competition for starting places against Berbatov and Keane), or whether Villa would bid for him if he was available, or whether he'd sign for Villa if you did make an offer (perhaps he would), but I do know two things:

First, if he leaves, Defoe won't sign for any club outside the top 4 unless he's convinced that the buying club wants him as a first-choice, first XI striker for every match.

Second, you may (or may not) think that he won't suit your playing system, or won't fit in with your current strikers, but those who think that Defoe is somehow not good enough for Villa are in serious need of a reality check.

Why? He has scored eight goals in the cups. Well done him. They still win football matches.

4 goals against Port Vale, Milton Keynes and Southend...

...SIGN HIM UP!!!!

He also scored against Seville and two goals away against Dinamo Bucaresti.

The bottom line is that you can only score in the games in which you play ... Defoe doesn't get to choose the opposition.

Do Villa normally play with two strikers up front, and if so, what would be MON's first choice strike partnership if Defoe came to Villa?

Bent and Defoe

I meant who would be MON's first choice strike partnership if Defoe was the only new striker to sign for Villa since (obviously you won't be signing both Bent and Defoe)?

Does no one have a view on this?

It's 10 goals in 34.

No strikers record has ever been goals/starts.

You do it based on overall appearances, let's not move the goalposts to make Defoe look better than he is.

Just out of interest, why limit the stats to just league goals? Do cup goals not count? Defoe has scored 18 goals this season.

Do Villa normally play with two strikers up front, and if so, what would be MON's first choice strike partnership if Defoe came to Villa?

And that my friend is gossip, no matter what way you twist and turn. Gossip.

Call it whatever pleases you. We'll all know the outcome soon enough.

Basically what you are saying, Tottenham guy, is gossip. You know a guy that knows a guy and you "think" this and that. ...

I don't claim to know any 'guy'.

Every club, including Villa I imagine, has people who from time to time leak info. to particular outsiders - someone they know and trust not disclose their identity. That info. is sometimes posted on certain club-related message boards by the outsider concerned - someone who in due course becomes recognised as having a track record of occasional access to advance info.

If you want to dismiss such info. as nothing more than 'gossip' - no problem.

Of course the the knowledgeability of the source can vary, and even if accurate the info. may sometimes only be about a partial aspect of an overall situation and therefore be misleading. There are no absolute guarantees of it being correct. In the case of Bent, there are several different sources saying the same thing, which is why I give it a lot of credence.

... what is to say he does not want to move? ...

Charlton have just been relegated ... he's an ambitious player who wants play regularly for England and to win club trophies, so of course he wants to move.

... How do you know he really likes Tottenham? From what I have heard he likes Arsenal and supported them as a kid. ...

It's fairly well known that he likes Spurs. I can't speak for what you have heard. Besides, right now it's Spurs that are pursuing him, not Arsenal.

... How do you know Bent is likely to sign for Spurs?

I've explained in another post a while back why he would fit very well in with the current Spurs set-up (and therefore why Spurs want him), so I won't clog up space by repeating that.

In terms of why it's likely, there are several reasons:

* Info. from various Spurs sources with a good track record of usually being correct.

* He is known to like Spurs a lot

* He would probably prefer - all things being equal - to stay in the London area if possible

* He would certainly see Spurs as a big step-up in his career so far (which is not to say that he wouldn't regard Villa in similar terms).

I'm not saying it's a 100% certainty. But if pushed I'd put it at 90%+. However, if a top 4 club come in for him, then all bets are off, but they'll have to show their hand quickly if so.

Don't shoot the messenger as I personally don't think this is true (so I probably shouldn't post it but I love any snippet of news so I thought others might?)

I have just been told by somebody with inside info (110% honest guv) that we will sign Defoe by this time next week?

...

This info. may well be correct (not the timing necessarily, but the deal itself).

It's looking more and more likely that Bent is signing for Spurs, in which case Villa looks far and away the the most likely destination for Defoe.

.. i saw a predicted budget by The Times.

Spending power

How much money will the clubs that could play in next year’s Premiership have available to spend?

£50m plus Chelsea

£40m Manchester United, Aston Villa

£30m Sunderland, Liverpool, West Ham

£20m Arsenal, Newcastle, Manchester City (dependant on takeover)

£10-15m Derby, Tottenham, Everton, Wigan, Birmingham, Sheffield United, Blackburn, Bolton, Middlesbrough, Southampton, West Bromwich Albion, Wolverhampton

£5m Fulham, Portsmouth, Reading

....

This Times article is poorly researched and mostly rubbish. Apart from anything else, it doesn't even say whether or not the predicted figures relate to net spending (i.e. money spent after subtracting money received from player sales).

Let's take the case of W.Ham, for example. Sure they now have a wealthy owner, but they've already spent a load on new players in January in their desperate efforts to stay up, to say nothing of the huge wages they've committed themselves to in the case of several of their new signings. They've also just been fined 6m by the FA over the Tevez and Mascherano 'registrations'. And on top of that they'll receive something like 6m less than Spurs (for example) in league prize money due to their final finishing place (if they stay up).

Yet despite all this, and the despite the fact that Spurs have had a bumper income this season from all their cup runs (TV money, gate receipts etc.) and have a big wadge of cash saved up from their low net spending during the last 5 transfer windows, we're supposed to believe that W.Ham will spend perhaps three times as much as Spurs this summer (10m versus 30m) as we push for top 4 next season. It just doesn't add up.

Here's another example of why the article is largely nonsense in the article: It's very likely that Spurs will shortly (next couple of weeks) finalise a deal for Younes Kaboul (a French U-21 centre-back from Auxerre) for 7 - 7.5m. So that's possibly 70 - 75% of our summer budget gone already if you believe the times article.

Sunderland to spend 30m? I strongly doubt that.

Derby (Birmingham, W.Brom etc.) to spend 3 times the small amount that Portsmouth can supposedly only afford? Portsmouth now also have a wealthy owner, so it doesn't seem very likely.

I'm not saying that all the figures in the article are wide of the mark (from what I read on this board it seems that your wealthy new owner will spend big this summer, so maybe the 40m for Villa is correct - I wouldn't know), but a lot of the figures seem to me like they've plucked out of the air with very little substance to back them up..

May I ask a few questions to the Spurs fan?!

Jermaine Defoe - would you be sad or happy to see him go?

Are you a season ticket holder?

If you had to choose one over the over - Defoe or Bent? - Forget Defoe can't play with Keane or Berbatov and Bent can (even though we're guessing), who would you choose OUTRIGHT?!

I'd be very sad to see Jermaine go and very worried about the boost he'd give to a rival team. The man is class. The thing with him is he doesn't bottle it - he may often miss quite a few chances, but he self-creates loads of them and always has a crack when other strikers would look for an easier option for fear of failure.

No, I'm not a season ticket holder ... live too far away for that and have family commitments.

If Defoe could play as well with Keane as he can with Berbatov, then I'd stick with him in preference to Bent. Tough choice, but Defoe gets the nod for me.

However, crazy as it may seem (and probably is), I haven't entirely given up hope that we may sell only Mido, sign Bent and keep both Defoe and Keane along with Berbatov. Jol has recently spoken of wanting to keep Defoe, but we also know he wants Bent ... could both things happen? Very unlikely, but you never know ....

Berbatov, Keane, Defoe and Bent all at one club: the most feared strike quartet in the Prem. I can always dream ....

Jermain Defoe ....:

02-03 West Ham 8 Goals, 38 Games

03-04 Tottenham 7 Goals, 15 Games

03-04(jan) West Ham 11 Goals, 19 Games

04-05 Tottenham 13 Goals, 35 Games

05-06 Tottenham 9 Goals, 36 Games

06-07 Tottenham 8 Goals, 31 Games

... I know pretty well who I would want...

The statistics you quote are highly misleading.

For a start they take no account of minutes on the pitch, and secondly they take no account of cup goals. For example, for 04-05 you say '13 goals', when actually Defoe scored 22 goals in all competitions (top scorer).

PS. The 06-07 tally now reads 9 goals (and 17 in all competitions): add on the extra one for another 10 minutes played tonight :winkold:

... Defoe ... looks like another footballler who thinks he is a pop star.

....

Actually Defoe is a model professional: great attitude, hardly ever complains and is a very motivated, stable character.

.... Also, if Darren Bent went to Spurs, would he be THIRD choice?! Will he not be in the same position Defoe currently finds himself.

..

No, because he could effectively partner Keane or Berbatov, whereas Keane and Defoe are relatively ineffective together.

With Spurs in the UEFA Cup again next season, that may well mean another season of close to 60 games. Figure in injuries, the need to rest players, suspensions or just rotations due to loss of form, and Bent would get plenty of starts .. maybe even more than he gets in a normal Charlton season.

Why should we buy the leftovers from a club such as Tottenham? They are the ones we are trying to catch up with in the first place, and what good is it if we get Defoe and they get Darren Bent as a replacement? That is another step up for them, and a little one for us, but still 2 steps behind. Jermain Defoe is a good little player but he has a reputation for having a hard time being consistent. Sure he has a good record but why doesn't he play every week? Being a striker is much more than just scoring goals, we should all be aware of that since we signed John Carew. It's the same with Berbatov really, he doesn't score that many goals but he contributes in other ways. Jermain Defoe is the type of striker who should score at least 15 goals in the league to be successful in a season, he just doesn't contribute in any other way IMO.

Is he better than what we got? Marginally.

Is he better than Darren Bent? Not at all and he is also older than Bent.

And like I mentioned, why would we want to buy the leftovers from Tottenham? Clearly there is something with him that can't make it there. Sure Robbie Keane is a major treat as well, but Defoe was way ahead of him earlier this season. I wouldn't mind him if we did sign him, but it would be a risk. And not a big "wow" signing.

I believe you're misunderstanding the situation with Defoe at Spurs by calling him 'left-overs' and regarding Bent as 'step-up' from Defoe.

As I've said before, the reason we want Bent is because he could play effectively in partnership with either Berbatov or Keane (or Defoe), whereas if Berbatov is injured the Keane/Defoe partnership is not so effective. In other words it's not because Bent is a better striker than Defoe (or Keane), but simply for tactical/formation reasons in relation to the current Spurs set-up and our options if Berbatov is injured.

Neither is Keane widely regarded as significantly better than Defoe - it's a marginal decision either way and on that margin Jol seems to have plumped for Keane, again largely because of the way that Spurs are set-up to play.

... As regards upfront.. Defoe is a good striker but every time I watch him his scoring tally just isn't good enough..He almost scores loads! Ain't we had that time and time again?... we need someone whose gonna bag us 15-20 goals a season sure thing .....

He's already scored 16 goals for Spurs this season (3 games still to go), despite not starting or even playing in a fair few games, and he scored 22 goals for us the season before last.

how can a Villa transfer, speculation, links and suggestions thread go so wildly off topic........

Sorry, it's partly my fault.

I responded to a transfer speculation post about Berbatov, explaining why in my view he won't be sold. This necessarily involved details of Spurs finances, his contract length, our top 4 aims etc.

The problem is I then got caught up in responding to comments about these details ... kind of hard not too ... but maybe I shouldn't. If you'd prefer I didn't then I won't if you tell me not too.

Still, along the way we've had some interesting discussion about player contracts - what they mean in terms of players easily leaving if they want to (or not easily leaving, as the case may be), so maybe some of it is relevant to the thread?

... as unbelievable as it sounds, Jol is under pressure to deliver. ...

All managers at all clubs are under pressure to deliver.

Luckily for Jol he has delivered so far, tho' even more will be expected next season. He's moved the club up from 14th placed finish (the season before he took over) to two top 6 finishes (5th last season, very likely top 6 this season), including good cup runs this seasons in 3 competitions. I don't know about you, but that sounds like excellent progress to me.

.. The board wanted CL qual. this year and they might not even get Uefa at this point.

I'm sure the board want CL as soon as possible (just like Villa's board must) but I doubt very much if they expected Spurs to finish top 4 this season whilst simultaneously learning to cope with all the extra European games. That's not realistic for a first season in Europe after a long absence.

BTW, it's not really in doubt that we'll qualify for UEFA again. Look at the table and fixtures remaining. The only real question is whether we'll finish 5th again or not.

... what people don't realise is that the investment was about 60m pounds since Jol took over. Any manager who spends at that level will be expected to deliver. Also, like any club that spends at that level, they've not much left in the kitty. ...

This is complete nonsense. What counts is net expenditure (transfer spending minus money coming in for players sold): Spurs have spent around 20m net during the period covered by the 5 transfer windows of Jol's reign so far. That's an average of 4m net per window - not much, especially not for a club with a large income-base like Spurs.

.... They might spend a few quid tweaking here and there but any big signing will have to be funded by sales.

i.e why the rumours about Keane, Defoe and Berbatov persist even though Jol doesn't want to sell any of them

Since your figures are all wrong, so is the conclusion you draw from them.

Again you talk is if this "war chest in the summer" is a FACT when you've admitted before it's a RUMOUR. .. .

You only have to look at the most recent Spurs annual accounts (in the black) and then figure in (a) the bumper income we've had this season from extended cup runs and lots of TV coverage and ( our serious top 4 ambitions, to see that money is not going to be a particular obstacle for Spurs this summer. Of course I don't know for a fact that we'll actually spend all the money we have available, but I do know that it is available.

... you can very easliy finish ninth as well as fifth so nothing is set in stone...

Don't know about 'very easily', but anything is possible of course. Right now we're just two points off 5th place, with a game in hand, better goal difference than the club currently in 5th (Bolton), two home games to come and significantly easier fixtures than most of the teams in 9th - 5th place.

... i can assure you your lot will have us to contend with next season so this so called "banging on the top four" fantasy you've got is not a formality!!...

Have I ever said that we won't have Villa to contend with? I don't know why you seek to turn everything into a Villa-Spurs slanging match.

Why is a top 4 ambition for Spurs a fantasy? Of course it will be very difficult to get there (I've never remotely it described it as a 'formality') and we may not succeed, but I think we are not badly placed for the attempt.

... Spurs fans were saying the same thing regarding Carrick last summer, how "he's not for sale" ...

I've already explained in previous posts why Carrick was a one-off situation, so I won't go over all that again. One swallow does not make a summer and Spurs have little or no history of being a selling club.

... you need to understand when the top four come calling if the player wants to go HE WILL GO!!...

No, the player is under contract, so he will go only if the club concerned decide to let him go.

... Berbatov is not a fool, who's he more likely to win stuff with Spurs of Manure? ....

Right now, with Man. U obviously. But Berbatov is not your average character. He has already played in the Champions League, so it's clearly not the be all and end all for him or else he wouldn't have signed for Spurs in the first place. Besides, for all you know he may relish the challenge of trying to help our team gate-crash the top 4 party rather than joining an already-established team.

In any case, he's only been with Spurs for 10 months and has a long contract period ahead. I'm still waiting to hear the slightest shred of evidence that Spurs will sell or that he wants to leave.

... you say you're getting Bent but if i was Jol i'd focus on your defence as its one of the worst in the league.

No, I said there's a very good chance we'll sign Bent (and sell Defoe), not that it's definite.

As for our defence, yes we need to focus on improving it, and yes we've shipped loads of goals, but that's partly because of:

* Our attacking style of play (99 goals this season so far), which leaves spaces at the back .

* Ledley King being injured for much of the season (luckily he's back now)

* Our still unfilled search for a quality, left-footed LM (which leaves our LB a lot more exposed than might otherwise be the case). A Defoe - Barry swap would suit us well, but I doubt Villa fans would approve.

Sorry but if Berbatov was approached, by Barca, Arse, ManU, RedScouse, Real Madrid, Milan or any of the top european sides, he'd be off like a shot.....

He isn't unhappy or unsettled, but even if we assume that he is (for arguement's sake) , there's the small matter of a signed contract running until 2011. You seem to think it's simply up a player when they leave. It isn't. The club decide. If they don't want or need the money and they want to keep a player, then he stays.

... ... we will finish above you next year and you'll be in your customary 12th - 8th slot!!

Well, anything is possible. I don't want to get involved in a slanging match.

Well if Spurs sign Bent then you can bet your bottom dollar either Defoe or Berbatov are off! The former maybe to us, the latter definitely not to us.

I agree with this, but put your bottom dollar on Defoe ... there is not the slightest possibility of Berbatov being sold.

..... Berbatov .... He's being linked with a move away from Spurs and although he may well go to Mancs or Chelsea etc we do have leverage perhaps with Petrov and the MON factor!

Well, 'he's being linked' in the same way that everyday we all read dozens of media-froth speculations about player X being pursued by club Y ... most of them are based on little or nothing and are simply efforts to gain attention/readers/viewers.

The chances of Berbatov being sold this summer are zero. Spurs are not some struggling, cash-strapped club that needs to keep making profits on player sales in order to survive. On the contrary, we are wealthy club that may well finish 5th for the 2nd season running.

Far from selling Berbatov (who is probably one of the five or six best strikers in the whole of Europe), this summer you will see Spurs spending big to significantly strengthen the squad.

The player himself is happy and not unsettled (unlike the Carrick situation): he's scored loads of goals and has been voted into the PFA team of the season. He knows that Spurs have top 4 ambitions, can see that we are knocking on the door, knows we have a substantial war-chest to spend this summer and knows we are likely to mount our strongest challenge yet for top 4 next season. Plenty of reasons there to want to remain part of a developing team. His agent says he definitely wants to stay at Spurs next season (and agents are notorious for touting deals if they think it might be a possibility).

Apart from anything else, Berbatov is a complicated character. Shows loyalty (he turned down a late offer from Man. U last summer because he'd already given his word to Spurs, despite no signed contract). Reads a lot of books, likes driving around London to explore obscure neighbourhoods, paints pictures for a hobby. Not yer average follow-the-money footballer.

Spurs have a contract with Berbatov that runs - should the club so choose - until the summer of 2011. So there is no contract-expiry pressure to sell (unlike the Carrick situation).

In the summer of 2008 or 2009, if we haven't made top 4, then maybe Berbatov will be sold. But not now, pretty much regardless of how much dosh is offered.

... Seriously? Ok he's got pace, but no final ball. In the two recent England matches he had poor distribution and woeful crosses. Even on Sunday he looked good running at defenders, but never had a telling pass/shot at the end. Milner does have this although not quite the pace.

I'd have Milner over Lennon anyday.

In one of those England matches he was played on the left (to accomodate Lampard in CM, with Gerrard being displaced into RM), whereas he's far stronger on the right. In any case, how many England players played better than him in those two games?

I've seen Lennon play lots and he has much, much more to his game than just pace, acceleration and an ability to beat/go round/past players.

If you'd prefer Milner, then fair enough, but I do wonder how many neutrals would agree with you.

BTW, good luck in the match tonight ... Villa will be doing Spurs a big favour if they can stop Everton from leap-frogging us into 6th place.

... I believe Milner will be England's first choice right-winger in 2 years time.

To do that he'll have to displace Lennon first ... not an easy task.