Ghost_of_Pongo_Waring

Pardew is nailed on, and deserves it over Lambo.

Pardew definitely deserves it more and I think you're right about him being nailed on for it ........... he's already started losing games in anticipation

Fully deserved nomination for manager of the month. Should win it.

No, hope he never wins manager of the month. That things the kiss of death.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can't in all fairness say "if Sessègnon had scored his chances" and ignore the chances we had. Kozak hit the bar just after the first Sessègnon miss. Why does that not count in the game of 'what if'.

Also to be accurate if Sessègnon had scored the first of his misses then the rest of the game would have been totally different anyway, from that point onwards.

 

Whether Kozak missed chances at the other end really has nothing to do with our defensive lapses and I'm sure you know that. But, anyway, we didn't get the same sort of clear-cut chance that we gifted to West Brom and that Sessègnon squandered. That was what was so good about our fight back. We had to dig out our goals and they were both very skilfully taken.

 

To get back to the basic point: our defence is still making rather alarming mistakes. Certainly fewer than last season, but we have been lucky in the last couple of games that we were not punished more for them. Whether Kozak had sneaked his shot under the bar really would not have made any difference to that. (But I like your optimism that, if  Sessègnon had made it 3-0, it would have become a different game -yes, Benteke would have sprung into life and banged in 4.   )

 

Yes the defence is still making mistakes but I don't think anyone has suggested that our defensive problems are solved but we have improved.

As for the luck part I disagree. You may say we were lucky that Sessègnon missed, you could just as easily say they were lucky that we gifted him a chance.

I doubt you'd say we were unlucky to give Sessègnon the chance, and rightly so as it was down to careless defensive play, so why should it be classed as luck when Sessègnon makes a mistake.

The different game thing wasn't being optomistic Briney but just stating a fact. If he'd scored then obviously instead of the goal kick we'd have been kicking off.

All the players would have been in totally different positions and every run, pass and shot would have been different.

Would we have come back from three down, who knows, it's been done before. I remember, and I think you probably remember it too, when Sir Brian was manager being 4-0 ahead against Leicester with 15 minutes to go and it finished 4-4. Strange things can happen although I think you're wrong about Benteke going on to get 4, he'd have got a double hat trick at least

 

 

We've certainly got luckier defensively. Against Sunderland, Giaccherini missed a nailed on goal from about 3 yards out and, on a different day, Ciaran would have given away a penalty for his handball.

 

Against West Brom, Sessègnon missed two simple, open goals that would have put Sunderland 4-0 ahead.

 

Long may this continue. I am enjoying not conceding so many goals but I don't think that means our defensive problems have in any way been "solved"

Only on VT, what a load of rubbish, only villa fans can put our run of clean sheets down to luck and luck alone. Nothing to do with Lambert bringing in a defensive coach and our new players adapting to the league and each other.

The same fans that dismiss any chances we've also had at the other end. Utter cack.

  

Actually, only on VT can people fail to read posts properly and then, on the back of their own misunderstanding, come out with a foolish rant and really quite inappropriately offensive nonsense like this.

 

My post is NOT about our "run of clean sheets" and it is NOT putting it down to "luck and luck alone". Where on earth did you get that interpretation from? Certainly not the words I actually used.

 

My post is specifically is about the last two games and I mentioned three incidents where opposing teams missed three of the easiest chances I have seen in a long while. The West Brom  game was not a clean sheet, in case you didn't notice, our defence sleep-walked their way to 0-2 within about 20 minutes. Very fortunately for us, Sessègnon missed two very simple chances - both completely open goals created by our defensive lapses - that would have put West Brom 4-0 up, so any talk of clean sheets would certainly have been a bit off beam for that game.

 

The nonsense about "The same fans who...etc." suggest you may not have read my post but are responding to a more general set of issues that I was not writing about.

 

You can't in all fairness say "if Sessègnon had scored his chances" and ignore the chances we had. Kozak hit the bar just after the first Sessègnon miss. Why does that not count in the game of 'what if'.

Also to be accurate if Sessègnon had scored the first of his misses then the rest of the game would have been totally different anyway, from that point onwards.

That success as you call it is wholly based on the assumption that Lerner and Faulkner after giving Lambert 20m to spend then told him all we want Mr Lambert is that you keep us in the Premiership and it doesn't matter if we take until the penultimate game to achieve that. Now it may have happened and i can't prove otherwise but i would hazard a guess that both Chairman and Chief Executive were a tad more ambitious when you also take into consideration that there was no pressure on Lambert to purchase youthful inexperience. It was Lambert's decision and his alone how he spent his budget!

Where have I said, or even intimated, that all Lambert had to achieve was staying in the Premiership. We needed to reduce wages. That has been widely reported, you surely must be aware of it. To reduce wages high earning players had to be replaced. Lambert could have replaced them with fewer, but more experienced, players or go the way he chose which was increase the squad depth by buying less experienced youth.

Just in case you're still not sure of what I'm saying, Lambert had to reduce wages and keep us up. He succeded. Wages have been reduced and we were not relegated.

You are also assuming that we are turning things around. What is that based on? Currently lying 10th with more points which is fair enough but when you consider our current standard of football, an inability to score goals, points total in relation to other teams around and below us and of course that minor detail that we haven't yet hit the Christmas period, then that placement could be best described as fragile and certainly not set in stone as to base permanent progress. We could of course kick on from where we are but due to the aforementioned traits we could also drop just as quickly so this much lauded stated improvement that everyone is getting so excited about is rather premature.

Again, where have I said, or even intimated, that our progress this season is set in stone?  We are turning things round, at the moment. Yes we are not playing as fluently as we were at the end of last season but we are a lot better defensively. We've already kept as many clean sheets as we did in the whole of last season. We're not scoring as well as the end of last season but it's not an assumption to think that having all three of our main strikers missing a number of games is going to have an effect. Saturday was the first time for eight games that Gabby, Benteke and Weimann had started together. Yet despite that we haven't collapsed but carried on grinding out points. You're assuming that the improvements fragile. It may well prove to be but it could also prove to be long term  improvement.

One last point if i may. This is the second time i've seen you stating that we were closer to relegation under Mcleish than Lambert. For once you haven't based a statement on assumption and thats good but i would however suggest you do a little research. Both Mcleish and Lambert secured our Premiership status with just one game to go and therefore as i have already stated i'm wondering if an amalgamation between youthful exuberance and Premiership experience wouldn't have served us better certainly in the short term to give our young players more time to develop with less pressure for the future?

I don't need to do research on who got us closer to relegation. The comparison on the number of games left when we secured safety between McCleish and Lambert is meaningless. It is ridiculous logic and I'll explain why.

If a team secures safety with four games to go but they lose the last four games and finish one point above the relegation zone they are closer to being relegated than a team that secures safety with three games to go but wins it's final three games and finishes nine points above the relegation zone. Using your 'logic' the team who didn't secure safety until three games was closer to being relegated.

Under McLeish we finished in 16th place,  two points above relegated Bolton

Under Lambert we finished in 15th place,  five points above relegated Wigan.

Your statement, a couple of days ago, that Lambert got us closer to being relegated than McLeish was ludicrous. We were closer, both in position and points, to be relegated under McLeish.

Maybe a mix of youth and experience would have been better, maybe it wouldn't. There's no way of proving either view point.

 

 

 

 

Yes and a big fit-again Belgian will have a lot to do with that you'd imagine.

What if his form doesnt return.... Just saying

 

How do I answer that though. We beat Citeh without him, so maybe if he's still shit in a month we drop him. Let's assume he's on the mend though, given that he has recently been injured, until it becomes clear that he isn't.

 

My moneys on Albrighton to start getting the creativity going again and setting up a few goals. Long shot but i like to gamble

 

I don't think we've got our first choice front 3 of Weimann Benteke Agbonlahor on the pitch too many times this season. They've all had pretty lengthy injuries. Getting them fit and playing together is crucial to our scoring form. I think they'll all start tomorrow.

 

Considering the problems we've had with the attack our points tally and position is all the more commendable, in my opinion.

If they'd all been fit all season then I could understand the doom and gloom of some, and I'd have probably been agreeing with them.

 

 

The reason for that is that there are few alternatives inside the forum of football and no alternative with the budget made available to the manager.

 

It isn't what he's trying to do that's being criticised its how he's doing it and for me the allocation of that limited funding and it should have been a more gradual process of eliminating what was here and introducing youth and inexperience hence last season may not have been such a close flirtation with relegation but I can't prove that with any degree of certainty.

 

It's easy to say he should have taken a more gradual approach but we were closer to relegation the season before, with all the expensive experienced players, and we had to reduce the wage bill. That meant experienced, under performing players HAD to be removed.

 

The fact is we weren't relegated and that is the most important fact of all.

 

In some ways you remind me of a boss I once had. Every day I'd get in at two minutes to six and he'd say disapprovingly "you're nearly late". I was not late, I was due to start work at six and I started at six.

Lambert had to reduce the wage bill and keep us up. He succeded. Whether you think it was a risky way of doing it, he succeded. You may feel there were better ways of achieving it but that cannot be proved one way or the other so it's a pointless argument.

 

If he had taken a more gradual approach then that would logically mean we'd have more of the high earning, under performing players still on the books. So we'd be not as far down the road to turning things around as we are now. I don't see how that would be better.

 

 

You should have told him you were early!  

 

Fact is the best thing about Lambert's era so far is the scouting. It's a really fundamental part of a manager's duties. That is something MON could never do.

 

The stupid thing is he wanted me to be like others who arrived 15/20 mins early but then they would have a coffee & a chat and actually start work after me.

I do like Lamberts transfer dealings. I hadn't heard of any of his signings before we were linked to them and it's very enjoyable, for me, to see them develop. Obviously they're not all going to work out but the losses from the failures should be minimal compared to the huge losses we suffered through the 'big name' failures.

 

 

 

"West Brom should have been out of sight and Sunderland missed the sitter of the decade. We've been luckier than this time last year."

 

 

So West Broms missed chances should have been goals and our missed chances shouldn't?

 

I know it's barely allowed for one to go against this myth of 'progress', but we are luckier than this time last year IMO, and for me that accounts for our slightly better position. We are playing some of the worst football I have ever seen and at Villa Park and that's up against some pretty stiff competition.

 

If it improves and is all part of a big plan of Lamberts then I'll be as happy as anyone and I'll eat, but I don't see how anyone can argue that the football is anything other than one dimensional and dire.

 

Where has anybody said you're not allowed, or 'barely' allowed, to disagree ? 

Nobody has said that the football we're playing, at the moment, is good or attractive. The progress is not however a 'myth'. Last season when we had a lot of injuries we could not cope. This season we've had a lot of injuries and have ground out results. It might not be pretty but we have been more resilient, made less mistakes and are mid table and we're mid table on merit.

If it improves and is all part of a big plan of Lamberts then I'll be as happy as anyone and I'll eat, ....... Really you should eat regardless of whether Villa improve or not. Eating is quite important

Last season in parts was an adrenalin fuelled ride of fast past attack, some great goals from our front line and comedy pub defending. Every game was a roller coaster ride and a 1:0 deficit after 10 mins was the norm.

 

Now the comedy pub defending has almost gone but so has the adrenalin ride of goals. Weimann, Gabby and Benteke were unplayable last season, this season it feels like teams know how to nullify their threat plus all three are off form or have been injured.

If we can't play on the break or hoof it - then we play possession football that goes nowhere.

Our limitations are so obvious it hurts. Our midfield is league one level, our attack when on form is top 8 prem class, our defence seems to now be catching up to Prem standard, but it's all a weird mix of differing abilities. But on the whole we aren't a good footballing team and it hurts me to say that.

Lambert tries to make us play to our strengths, he used three attackers because he recognised our midfield wasn't good enough, instead he substituted talent in that area for reliability and industry (and the hope Delph can become something special).

As tedious as it is to state, until we have some kind of creative technical ball players in there with an eye for a forward pass and good close control we will not improve beyond where we are now, which I might add is a good solid platform to go from. And yes we need players to make the runs to adapt to the passes that this type of player would offer.

Looking at the players we have I would only say that Bennett (honest, I know he can't defend but he is genuinely good on the ball), Helenius (judging by the preseason games) and supposedly Tonev - have these technical creative attributes, maybe Gardener and Albrighton at a push, and then Grealish and Graham (maybe Carruthers). All are currently fringe players or youth players who won't be blooded for some time as Lambert doesn't play anyone under the age of 23.

Lambert needs to take some risks and make some bold choices with the players we have. 

We are making progress though, just very dull and slow progress. And I think the players we have will and are getting better.

 

I agree with some of what you've posted but to say "as Lambert doesn't play anyone under the age of 23." ........... apart from Baker, Okore, Luna, Bacuna, Weimann, Benteke and Bowery.

 

 

IMO, the main improvement (same time this year to last) is our luck. Last year we had none up until Xmas. This year we've had a fair bit (apart from Chelsea away).

 

If we carry on playing like this, but the luck deserts us, we are in the doo dah, because it's woeful stuff.

 

I really want Lambert to work some magic as I want him to succeed here, but I'm really just sitting back and watching what happens, game by game, with the sort of interest you give a car crash. I hope the training is different to the match play.

 

Have we been lucky, really?

 

 

 

 A player messed up, it happens.

Were all the teams that beat us, because of our defensive howlers, last season lucky?  No of course not, we messed up it was our fault.

 

 

IMO, the main improvement (same time this year to last) is our luck. Last year we had none up until Xmas. This year we've had a fair bit (apart from Chelsea away).

 

If we carry on playing like this, but the luck deserts us, we are in the doo dah, because it's woeful stuff.

 

I really want Lambert to work some magic as I want him to succeed here, but I'm really just sitting back and watching what happens, game by game, with the sort of interest you give a car crash. I hope the training is different to the match play.

 

Have we been lucky, really?

 

Okore getting injured and out for the season. Benteke in a fine run of scoring, then gets injured and struggles to find form or fitness.

 

Gabby playing through injury and then missing games through injury. Weimann, Delph and Luna out through injury. We're not even upto Xmas and we've played quite a few games with three or four key players missing.

 

We may not be playing great football but we have cut out the defensive mistakes, to a large degree, and thats not down to luck.

 

Also it's not beyond the realms of possibility that when the majority of these key players are back to speed that our game will improve.

 

Yes, I believe we have ridden our luck. The last two games we were lucky to get anything. Every team gets injuries. I stand by what wrote earlier. If we carry on playing like this without the luck then we're in serious trouble.

 

Of course, a few things can happen. We start playing a lot better and/or we stay lucky. I hope we do both.

 

Against West Brom we had more shots at goal, and more shots on target. They were dominant in the first half, we were dominant in the second. Neither team had a dubious goal given or a legitimate goal ruled out. We got what we both deserved, a draw.

On Saturday the only time the ball was put into the back of the net it was ruled offside, and it was offside, no arguments about it at all. We both got what we deserved a 0-0 draw.

Of course every team gets injuries but we've had a lot of injuries in a short space of time, to key players. Thats hardly lucky is it.

 If you want guaranteed entertainment, try the opera or the Xfactor final.

 

Butterfingers ..... are you the full shilling

IMO, the main improvement (same time this year to last) is our luck. Last year we had none up until Xmas. This year we've had a fair bit (apart from Chelsea away).

 

If we carry on playing like this, but the luck deserts us, we are in the doo dah, because it's woeful stuff.

 

I really want Lambert to work some magic as I want him to succeed here, but I'm really just sitting back and watching what happens, game by game, with the sort of interest you give a car crash. I hope the training is different to the match play.

Have we been lucky, really?

Okore getting injured and out for the season. Benteke in a fine run of scoring, then gets injured and struggles to find form or fitness.

Gabby playing through injury and then missing games through injury. Weimann, Delph and Luna out through injury. We're not even upto Xmas and we've played quite a few games with three or four key players missing.

We may not be playing great football but we have cut out the defensive mistakes, to a large degree, and thats not down to luck.

Also it's not beyond the realms of possibility that when the majority of these key players are back to speed that our game will improve.

Tonights game vs L'pool is live on LFC TV which is free on Virgin and I think on Sky as well.

 

 

I think everyone should just settle down. The priority was staying in the league and not being embroiled in another relegation battle. I know that isn't exactly ambitious but it was the first target. Right now I think we are looking good for achieving that. I think other targets, such as cup runs and more attractive football, should maybe be set for next season. This season has to be about not living as dangerously as we did last season.

 

Obviously this makes terrific sense

 

For me Lambert has done everything asked of him so far, taking over a shambles, completely overhauling the squad, balancing the budget, restoring some pride in the players and all the time whilst safeguarding our PL status.

 

Anyone who thinks we should be challenging for the top 6 or a major trophy at the moment needs a reality check. Our last 38 games would have been good enough for 9th last season - if we can maintain that level of return this season and push on a little in terms of our style of play I will be very happy

 

He didn't take over a shambles and his overhaul of the squad very nearly relegated us.

 

No-one, no-one thinks we should be challenging for top six or winning trophies yet either and we are at this moment in time lying tenth not at the end of this season but having not even reached the Christmas period yet and being tenth at this stage of the season is absolutely no guarantee that we're going to finish there as there is no guarantee that we're going to finish higher or lower than that. 

 

It was a shambles, we were closer to relegation under McCleish than under Lambert.  His overhaul of the squad saw us finish slightly higher up with slightly more points but more importantly with a base to build from both financially and with the squad.

Like I said previously no one can take complain about results and league position and we've clearly improved. I also think it's a bit ridiculous to want him sacked right now.

I can fully understand frustrations regarding performances though. Football is a game that runs on emotions and when watching awful rubbish like we did Saturday fans just aren't going to think about long term and project. But while frustrations may run high at the ground I think an overwhelming majority of fans are prepared to see where lambert can take us.

On the subject of benteke I think it would be a massive mistake to drop him.

I don't think he will drop him, yet.   I think him being subbed on Saturday was just a little nudge to Benteke to say he's not untouchable.

I think it's a confidence thing. If Bentekes attitude was wrong Lambert would have picked up on it during training and I don't think he'd have hesitated to drop him then. Once he gets that first goal he'll be flying again.

I don't know if what I said has been misunderstood. I will be happy enough to finish mid-table, and sitting mid-table at the moment I see as progress.

I have just a small worry that the way we are playing at present would not be good enough to keep us there.

But they way we've been playing has surely got to be considered in the light of the injuries we've had?

Gabby, Weimann and Benteke have all been out and it'll take a game or two for them, especially Gabby and Andi who have only just returned, to get back to 100% match speed.

It's frustrating I'd agree but it's a better sign, imo, to be playing poorly and picking up points than to be playing 'well' and getting beat.  We showed at the end of last season that we can play some good stuff and there's no reason why we can't get back there but there are always going to ups and downs. The overriding fact is we are improving despite our forward line being injured or out of form.

I think it'll be a narrow defeat but I really really hope we stuff them

I still haven't forgiven them about being robbed in the League Cup years ago down there, mid 80's?

It absolutely chucked down all night. We were herded off the train straight into the ground and they hadn't put any lights on, so we spent a good half hour getting soaked in the dark.

One of their players, standing in the back of the goal, headed the ball out and it wasn't given. The goal line had been washed away and the ref 'wasn't sure' if it had crossed the line, that wasn't there, even though the player had his back literally touching the back of the net. Surprisingly they repainted the line for the second half.

If I remember right three players were sent off. Mark Dennis and some other knob for them & Psycho Evans for us.

Then to round off a truly miserable evening we were 'escorted' back to the train station and left outside waiting for about forty minutes for our train to come in. I'd had to rush straight from work to get there and hadn't had anything to eat and some Policeman threatened to arrest me for wanting to walk a couple of hundred yards to a chippy to get a bag of chips.

Then to really rub salt in the wounds when we were finally allowed to enter the station I got to the snack bar, finally got to the front of the queue and ordered a pizza. There was about 20 seconds left on the timer and the train was about to leave. The woman behind the counter wouldn't give me the pizza til it was done so I had to leave it and just managed to get on the train literally as it started to move away and I'm bloody sure as I jumped through the train doors I heard that sodding microwave go 'bing'.

Cold, drenched, starving, robbed and some sod ended up with my pizza. I wouldn't be surprised if it was that Policeman.

Apart from that it was a good day.

 

 

Also, I am getting really tired of these finger-wagging posts telling us we are not allowed to say anything critical about the team, or manager when they play badly - apparently because we have hit the dizzy heights of TENTH and are not relegation material this year. Big deal..

 

Bollocks to that, is what I say.

 

 

Bollocks.

 

People are using 10th as a marker because it's just clear progress from last year, especially considering our fixtures, not because we should be happy and honoured that we're there. Stop being so patronising and sarcastic.

 

Yet at the same stage last year criticism of our placement was being described as premature.

 

Conversely last season at the same stage you were critical of our position and now are arguing that it's too early to say there's improvement.

Just been watching MOTD and saw Lambert saying we're "on a bit if a run at the moment".

W1 D3 L0.

Fabulous "run".

Just shows how low our expectations have been dragged under the current regime.

So he didn't say it was a 'fabulous' run, just a bit of a run, which is correct.

We've had three seasons fighting relegation but we're turning it around and are, at the moment mid table. How high should our expectations be at this time.

 

Completely off topic but I'd imagine we'd be in a pretty good position if we could have got Martinez when we went for him.

 

He's a much better manager, for sure.

 

How long was he at Wigan?  Yet they were constantly in a relegation battle every single year.

Lambert had to totally cut back & rebuild Villa last season and yet we were not the team relegated.

 

What the hell has happened?

injuries, stop start playing together and out of form. All seem to happen at once

 

Exactly but despite this we're still ticking over and are unbeaten in four games.

what puzzles me a times with some fans...its as if you can't say what you see...without fear of pissing on someone's chips.

 

We are all Villa Fans together and we all want the team to do well, but to dismiss a bad performance with a plethora of excuses, just winds other fans up and is an insult to their intelligence.

 

So If someone doesn't agree that a performance is as bad as you think, or that there are reasons (sorry 'a plethora of excuses') for a bad performance they are not supposed to make their point because it 'just winds other fans up and is an insult to their intelligence'

So we can say what we see, as long as it agrees with your opinion.