Daholteend

The anger, frustration and annoyance sets in amongst the fans. The board gets flak. The the anger grows, the board starts to panic, but without the skills or attitude to really bite the bullet and go for it, or the balls to resign and let someone else try, we are left muddling around in the middle. Bereft of the millions coming into the top, bereft of the leadership or dynamism to even seek to be the best of the rest.

Now we're just waiting for the end, for Ellis to go.

The issue of selling an asset stached away 15 years ago to make up a bank overdraft is not really the issue. It may be slightly vaguely hooky, or it may be all above board. So what?

What does it matter in the big picture.

Without a different approach and atmosphere we are consigned to be a footnote to seasons end video - "and Aston Villa finshed 15th that year"

scrutinising Ellis's manouevrings, good and bad, doesn't bring any change or advance, it just makes talking points about what we feel is a discredited regime.

Until we are a football club first and foremost, all utterly dedicated to winning matches on the pitch, to providing as much as is humanly possible to give the 11 players and manager what we can to help them win, we're just marking time and slipping backwards as others move on.

The present has caught up with Ellis and the future is behind him, now.

I wholeheartedly agree Blandy. Ellis should have retired from "running" every last detail at Villa park many many years ago. Sadly for us fans he has outstayed his welcome, much the same way as he did whenever he visited Big Ron's after the match drinks parties.

I sincerely hope that the end of his regime is nigh and that AVFC be blessed with a Fairy Godfather with deep pockets whose priority if football first and who has the wisdom to let a new top ranked manager draft top ranked players who are capable of competing at the highest level year in year out.

With HDE at the helm AV will sadly continue to stagnate until it stinks so much that even the die hard Ellis supporters ( all five of them) will clamour for changes.

This Mularkey of selling off our better players in order to bring in a couple of mediochre ones sucks. Imagine what Angel and Baros could achieve if they had players like Saviola and Aimar along side them.

I agree that selling off assets to cover your cash flow shortfalls is a sad state of affairs. Yes, those assets should have been utilised long ago to have maintained and improved the quality of the teams that BFR had accomplished and improved on them.

Last years Deloitte Football Money report placed Villa at Number 20 and also commented on what Villa needed to do to improve on their position. Obviously no one at B6 read that part. Villa has fallen off the radar of the top twenty and are likely to stay off until there is new vision/ownership and greater investment in the club.

I agree with you PP We did miss the boat, many times. Bruce Langham was right and sadly we as fans are now paying for the mis steps made since then with having to watch some miserable games.

The funds realised by the potential sale of the Serpentine Property will increase the net worth of AVFC and would presumably be used by the board in any number of ways that we, not being board members, or major shareholders are not privy to at this time.

Doug, in the past has indicated that AVFC, unlike most Prem clubs is relatively debt free.

Even though many of us perhaps do not care for Doug's tenure at the club, and frequently we hear claims that the business is run like a corner shop, one thing that can be said is that Doug is able to read and interpret the profit and loss statements and understands his balance sheet.

It seems to me that he runs the corporation like a Chancellor of the Exchequer and knows where every penny is spent.

In 2005 Aston Villa was ranked by Deloitte at Number 20 in their rankings of the world's money clubs.

If anyone is aware of any significant short term or long term debts owned by the club I would be interested to hear them.

The club's performance last season was woeful in terms of playing ability and more seriously in terms of revenue. Reduced revenues mean that prudent businessmen have to consider their cash position and budget accordingly. If the budget reveals that there will be a shortfall of funds at any point, attention has to be given as to how to adjust for that situation.

There are ways to rectify a position. Increase sales revenues, and for Aston Villa that means selling more tickets, selling more merchandise, making improved deals with kit suppliers/sponsors etc etc. Secondly they can increase prices of tickets and merchandise etc

Another way is to cut overheads by trimming unneccesary staff, or cutting hours or reducing expenditures etc. An improved position in the Prem will bring in more crowds and a better share of the Prem Broadcasting revenues.

Selling property that is not maximising it's value is also an option.

As previously mentioned, we fans probably don't know how those funds will be spent. It could be used for a host of things that have not been mentioned. Perhaps part of the money will be spent on the new pitch which we have heard is costing 700k. It could also be used on improving the training ground facilities.

There are a host of positive uses that can be made of the money. My simple question was for those who are making allegations of "near bankrupt" to support their claims with facts. I would be surprised to hear that such claims were true.

We may not always like the way the club is run but once in a while it is possible that the board does some basic things that sensible businessmen do. I prefer to take a balanced view of what the club and it's owner do. I think that sometimes we Villa fans are so severely critical of everything that the club does and are quick to blame Doug or DOL for everything at Villa Park, so much so that even when they do the good things they are criticised.

When they make decisons like dismissing managers like BFR or buying Berson and Dj2 and then never playing them or selling them on I too will complain. That's where I am coming from.

What crap.

The club has always had the assets, why have they not been used as past ceo's wanted.

Only when the club is near bankrupt thanks to the extremely poor management do panic measure come to the fore.

All Ellis is doing is managing the club as any poor manager does as the ship sinks

Anyone who has been in business will appreciate that downsizing staff, poor term performances, and selling off the assets to pay banks rather than investing in expansion are sure signs of trrouble in a company.

Maybe worth checking to see if there are any court actions against the club for unpaid monies

Do you have solid facts to support your allegations of "near bankrupt" and "selling off assets to pay banks" and "checking to see if there are any court actions ?

If so, I am sure we would all be pleased to hear them

the thing is to move to say a new 40,000 staduim would cost around £120 - £150m and there is no way that selling VP and the rest would fund this. Of course in an out of town one you can add casino's etc.

Ellis is using asset stripping because he knows a lot of Villa fans will agree with this and back him and thus lessens the pressure on him.

It is false ....

there are not enough assets within Villa to strip to make a profit and only two people have enough control to do this, Ellis and Petchey.

all a cover for ellis to hide behind.

Hmmmmmmmm Ian ? What is your relationship with the club ? Just kidding. The portion highlighted in bold asks the question of whether Villa has any assets to sell/strip

On another thread I read that Doug has issued a notice to the stock exchange authorities of the club's desire to sell the Serpentine Property valued at 100,000 on the books for a sum estimated to be in the region of 7M + .

This was a timely answer from the board that yes AVFC does have assets that are undervalued and that could be sold off for a substantial profit.

It was pleasing to see that the board has decided that if any body was going to sell the assets it would be them!

If the monies raised by the potential sale of these assets bring in players like Milner and perhaps a creative attacking midfielder we can all be suitably surprised , but delighted

If AVFC continues to trim these undervalued assets and raises further funds, it will have the effect of reducing the value of the club to a level that could attract a positive buyer whose prime interest is to restore AVFC rather than sell off undervalued real estate.

In the meantime raising 7M or more gives the board some wiggle room to provide funds for the maintenance of the club's status in the Premiership.

Not huge funds by some clubs standards, but better than Mother Hubbard.

I don't disagree with your points ianrobo1. Doug seems to know the cat and mouse game to deflect focus from what he is really up to. In his next life he should consider being a political spin doctor.

you also say

the thing is to move to say a new 40,000 staduim would cost around £120 - £150m and there is no way that selling VP and the rest would fund this. Of course in an out of town one you can add casino's etc.

It occurs to me that online casinos like Mansion for example that invested in Spurrrrrrrrz may very well think that your idea is a good one.

Ian, Asset strippers take over a company and then sell parts of it for a profit. The concept behind asset stripping is that a company may be purchased for less money than the value of the individual parts.

In AVFC's case there may be several opportunities to asset strip. The portion of land that the club has been trying to get planning permission to build a supermarket comes to mind.

The biggest "heist" of all would be to sell off Villa Park itself and perhaps move the club to another venue , say near the NEC for example.

Asset strippers are only limited by their own vision and local Town and Country Planning Legislation.

Ian, you say "He can not do this" but one can contract with another party to sell shares and interests and limit the future use of the shares or interests, providing you have a purchaser who is willing to be bound by such terms and the terms are legal.

There have been plenty of rumours concerning the possible Comer Takeover. We have all heard stories to the effect that Doug's asking price has not been met, and that no offer has been made for his shares as of yet.

We have also heard stories that Doug has wished to ensure the future viability of the club and has wished to protect the club from asset stripping. Of course all of this is hearsay and conjecture.

However, Aston Villa's grounds could be a potential site for a property developer with big ambitions for a multi purpose commercial, residential development. A new owner of the club might well decide that moving the club to a new location would be a more profitable solution. It is entirely possible.

The rumour mill seems to indicate that Doug has concerns about that precise event and may ask any potential purchaser for some guarantees that the Club itself will remain intact and playing at Villa Park for some years to come. However, as they say, money talks B*llsh*t walks, if some one came in with a substantial offer and insisted that there be no strings attached, whose to say that that offer might not be accepted.

Everything will be revealed in the fullness of time.

ellis is about as desperate to sell as i am to chop my bollocks and old chap off, put them in a blender and eat it with a side of salad....

Thankfully, Doug's "salad days" are over, but I think the old lad would sell his shares IF the money was right and the terms of the contract protected the future security of the club as a going concern and against asset stripping.

Even though many fans agree that Doug is well past his sell by date, I think their is still an ample ego and a sense pride left in the old chap not to just give away his prized asset for the first best offer that comes along.

Doug has never been one to do anything quickly and efficiently and I am sure that his ego is big enough to ignore the sentiments of most of the fans. He isn't in any hurry.

I would be interested to see what the bookies odds were of Doug selling before his demise. Any takers? ( apart from undertakers that is)

In the ideal world you would want to keep both players. However with the current owner and manager situation I think we can reliably expect the unexpected and it won't be good will it?

If Doug is around when Milner returns in the summer I can just hear DOL on September 30th saying - "I tried to get Milner, but "someone" told me that the financial situation is not good and that I will just have to make do with what I have got until the end of the season."

Whilst Villa struggle to find a buyer, cash carries on sloshing into other clubs (Liverpool potentially)

Juan Villalonga, who quit the owner of Arsenal sponsor O2 in 2000, is understood to be seeking a substantial stake in the Premier League club. According to reports in Spain, he is being advised by Rothschild and PricewaterhouseCoopers.

With a name like Juan Villalonga, wouldn't you think he was the "Juan" for Aston Villa ?

So here we are, Villa out of the running for all competitions this year and now faced with staving off relegation which was exactly where we were when HDE hired DOL in the first place.

Sitting in my comfy armchair it is so easy to suggest to Doug that if he was "half smart" he might want to take the first 55M pounds that he gets a sniff at and bank it before he sees that increasing player and management costs whittle away the true value of the team.

Villa has become as interesting as a 25 year old lego set that you buy for 50p at a boot sale. You get it home and find that half the integral pieces are missing and it will cost you more than your pocket money to fix it.

Doug, old chap. you can afford to retire in luxury for the rest of what is left of your life. Sell the club for the best offer on the table and let the new blood figure out what lego pieces are needed. It's quite clear that your current advisors don't have enough acumen to find their way out of Tescos on a Wednesday afternoon, let alone build an old lego set. :roll:

Oh and by the way Doug, did you know that the brand name "Lego" comes from from the Danish words "LEg GOdt" or "play well", which is something that Villa seem unable to do consistently as long as you own it

oh and another thought, (OT, sorry again) but taking the piss out of CV is to be encouraged, but the originality is, er, absent after the first few hundred times of repetition of the same theme.

just wondering if CV is at the Park today or is he going to hang out in some pub in "Brokeback Maida Vale" and watch it on the telly?

now back on topic... the fact that this takeover seems to be slower than a snail with arthritis is causing us "Fickle-uns" to have massive attacks of ADD.

(Hence the occasional wondering off topic )

Now that we have scored the magic 100 pages where nothing happened, does anyone want a vote whether we should close this thread down and start another one IF anything else happens this year ? 8)

So does this mean that AVIL cannot deal directly with Villa any more? Does everything have to go through Rothschilds?

If Rothschilds have been appointed to facilitate and consult on the sale of AVFC on behalf of the PLC that is probably correct wilsonrx. However, lets not fool ourselves; HDE can pull the plug on any deal involving his ownership at any time he pleases within the terms of any contract he may or may not have entered into with them when they were appointed.

The complex financial mechanisms involved in an asset like AVFC are likely to be beyond the scope of most ordinary businessmen and some one like HDE who never seems to have been fond of acquiring debt is wise to bring in a company like Rothschilds who deal with the buying, selling and financing of commodities on a daily basis.

It has been suggested that it may even have been the Comer Groups idea.

The Comer Group whose core business is in Real Estate Development are more likely to have had experience in the financing of such a takeover bid as HDE is facing. Again, it matters not who brought the Rothschilds into the picture but I am glad they are involved. They did a good job for the Glazers, they can do it for AVFC

Richard, to be honest I don't care who did it . I am just happy that a company with professional experience in this field is handling the matter. If it was Doug's choice , kudos to him, If it was Jack Petchey's advice same to him. If it was a minority shareholder even better, whoever it was give him/her a bag of smarties.

I don't even care if it turns out that SGE is behind it just as long as the club sells to an ownership that have the money, vision and desire to make AVFC rank up there with the World Class teams where we have always believed it should be.

The appointment of Rothschild's is possibly one of the shrewdest things that HDE has ever done during his tenure at Villa Park. The Glazer's used them to bring about their acquisition of MUSA.

All being well the appointment of this highly respected international firm should help AVFC find the best possible ownership whilst satisfying HDE's desire to get the best possible price for his shares.

I have a lot more confidence in Rothschild's handling the matter.

For HDE's sake and ours, their representation should avoid legal and financial complications that could easily stall a sale of the club long enough for AVFC to stumble into difficulties.( Like that has never happened at Villa Park eh?)

Everyone at Villa Park can get on with their jobs and leave the worrying about ownership etc. to those who have control of the matter and let us get on with making our way back up the Prem.

S-U-S , 5000 might be massively under the true number. There are probably 5000 fans alone who go to watch the Baggies and/or Walsall rather than give Deadly a penny.

Deadly won't leave

awwwww shucks ahamaad, then it's back to the bloody snails eh? !

IF Deadly seriously has the future of Aston Villa foremost in his thoughts the best thing he could do would be to speed up the sale of his assets to give the new owners the opportunity to take advantage of the transfer window.

Sadly, his departing will be just like his tenure - frustratingly tedious . I'd sooner watch a TV programme of snails slithering from Sutton to Solihull in Black and White and no volume !

In another thread I said I would eat my hat if the deal happens. I better go looking for a few bevvies to help wash the acrylic stuff down if it happens. I am starting to wish that I had suggested something more edible

Very Interesting JC , beer lady before DOL ! I can't stop laughing long enough to finish me pint! I knew she was bad but not that Bad!

I know the sooner that bloody woman who always fails to get the beers sorted in the Trinity goes the better :-) :-)

cheers mate

OK lets get our priorities in order

What order would you place on the following ?

(a) replace beer lady

( retire Ellis

© replace DOL

(d) buy a Center Back

Why has nobody in these other countries heard of the Villa , do people not know what we've achieved in are history ? Bloody foreigners

every time I think of Barcelona I can't help but think of Basil Fawlty smacking Manuel around the head and explaining

"He's from Barcelona you know ;)"

and Manual replying "Meeester Fawwwwlty, Que? !"

Until we have won the Champions League a few times I doubt that any one in Spain will know who we are. I hope by then we will be rid of our awful Hummel Shirts and have signed with a quality equipment supplier.

The consolation is that Chelski fans would get a similar treatment when wearing their shirts abroad. A lot of people would mistake them for Frenchmen ! Oui? !

Fryatt's price tag is going to run between 500,000 to 1.5M . It could be better if Doug (what a joke) asks Merson for a discount and Merson has a sense of humour

Hoddle has said that Lescott is not for sale and has turned down offers in the 5M region. All that means is that Hoddle wants to keep the lad and may have to resign himself to selling him for 6 or 7 I can also see some one saying "Well isn't that nice young "boy" Liam playing well at the moment ?" which in Dougspeak means " I would rather go with some one from the academy than spend any money at all"

So already we are up to 7.5M for two unproven players in the Prem.... These two purchases alone would seem to go against DOL's grain and Dougs "If I can't get a discount , I am not paying" mentality.

Fryatt for the money is a no brainer. Lescott raises a question, If Villa valued Distin , a proven player at 6M, why would Villa pay more for an unproven one ?

Fryatt's agent's are in Lichfield, not a stone throw from Little Aston. The chauffeur could drive by their offices hand over a nice cheque and at the same time hop over to Bescott in time to take Matty to Bodymoor Heath to get in a couple of hours practice before setting off for the Portsmouth game. Oh how easy it is from my armchair LOL :roll:

We all know that these two would fit into Villa perfectly since they are both locally grown products and have talent. The only three people that can't see this would be HDE, SS and DOL .

After the stumbling and bumbling is done this week, I would consider it a divine miracle if either one of these two ends up at Villa Park. I will be watching closely but I am not expecting any Thunderbolts to strike the ground at B6 this week Are you ?

It was always known as the Witton Lane stand. Let's ask another question, How would we have felt if they had re named the Holte End after HDE ? Villa Park is a stadium steeped in tradition. The old adage is "If it ain't broke, don't fix it ".

The wallies that came up with the name change in the first place have no idea about tradition. If those sycophants that changed the name wanted to plonk a name on something perhaps a better choice would have been to have developed the Shopping Centre that they keep talking of as a future investment and call it "The Ellis Memorial "Corner Shop" Shopping Centre ". :roll:

Let's face it, at the rate of development that it takes certain folks to do things it may be a long while before we have to deal with that issue and then as far as the Shopping Centre is concerned we can echo another sentiment "Who Cares as long as it produces substantial funds?". :winkold: