John_Lerwill

A nice article, Lancs, though I'd take issue with the line that says he's entitled to do what he likes as the owner of the club (paraphrase).

Though that's technically true, he himself said that he arrived as a "steward" of the club. To me that infers a lot of care and (I would have thought) sensible management. The major problem is that I don't think he's been sensible often enough. But I like your final 3 (er, 4!) points.

Good summing up, Pilchard.

But perhaps it also says that leadership in the dressing room and on the pitch (Petrov's verbal contribution) appears to be lacking, I think.

Just how do we interpret this report from the Dail Telegraph(?):

The Aston Villa players were furious that they led by only one goal at the break after a dominant first half but David Dunn headed home in the 85th minute to earn a draw for the home side.

“All the lads were disappointed we were not more ahead,” said McLeish. “They were lamenting and having a shouting match about that at half-time. But it was over and we had to concentrate on the second half.

“I want my players to be demanding of each other. They are quite a quiet bunch and, when you hear them talking like that, you are starting to see that fire as a group.”

Captain Stiliyan Petrov was still angry after the match. “It’s the story of our season ­ from being so good to being so poor,” he said. “That’s why we are in this position. We should have been away with three points and we couldn’t do it again.

“As I said to the boys, there’s no excuses this time. We are playing well and we can win games ­ it’s just getting more and more frustrating.”

Link

Mr_Black wrote

we will beat Bolton, they are simply awful, at home putting daylight between ourselves and the relegation mix.

Like your optimism ...(

Particularly as Bolton have already won at VP this season! :cry:

Need to ask Mat Kendrick and Tim Abraham, surely they would know if there was a press conference?

There's been some talk of RL and PF being in Paris to meet QIA people or summat.

Maybe there's a new financing/sponsorship to take place - some rumour was going that news of somehting like this would come up about now.

Arsenal away = loss

Bolton home = draw

Chelsea home = draw

Fulham home = draw

Liverplop away = loss

Manure away = loss

Norwich away = draw

Stoke home = draw

Monderland home = loss

Spurts home = loss

Boggies away = loss

5 draws = 5 points. Perhaps a surprise win against someone instead of one of those draws.

Last night I was chatting to a neighbour of mine who is an ex pro footballer and has been part of management team of clubs in both the PL and the Championship. He very politely listened to my rant about how poor McLeish is as a manager and pretty much agreed with everything I said.

To quote his exact words he said "I don't like the way Alex McLeish sets up his sides and he does not get the best out of his players" Hardly a revelation but interesting as view from someone with something of an inside track which we don't have and generally managers are always cautious about what they say about fellow managers.

He also agreed that at the time the appointment of McLeish was strange given the size and ambition of the club and that was how it had been perceived in the footballing world. It just makes the comments that Paul Faulkner made when we appointed him all the more bizarre.

Harry, please send that to the chairman (cc Faulkner) and ask him to frame it and put it on his wall!

Doomed.

John, the owner doesn't give a shit, if he did then Mcleish would not be here

The McLeish affair, Richard, seems to me to be (just) one big mistake the owner's made. I feel sure that if there's sufficient protest and lack of ST sales for next season he will have to see sense.

If he doesn't, then I'd have to use the "d" word.

Well said, Villarocker. Assuming McLeish stays after this season, I believe a strong protest needs to be sent to the chairman.

Waste of time. They couldn't care less.

They'd have to!! I can't see the owner wanting a virtually deserted ground next season.

Pilchard, I can't see more than 1 of the bottom 5 overtaking Villa.

QPR will not be relegated. Wolves have given themselves a chance and are have fight which we haven't shown. Wigan leave it to the last every season - again they have the fight.

I don't think we will win anther game his season. Where are our points coming from?

It'll happen on the last day of the season after playing for a draw at Norwich just to complete the carbon copy of McLeish's previous season.

The point is, Pichard, that the bottom 3 are a long way behind Villa in terms of points, and even Villa will at least pick up some draws over the next 11 matches. Hence 33 or (perhaps) 35 points to finish with. That will be good (or bad!) enough for this season.

Well said, Villarocker. Assuming McLeish stays after this season, I believe a strong protest needs to be sent to the chairman.

I do not think we will get more than 33 points this season

As Villa are performing at the mo, I agree. Perhaps 35.

Whatever, that number of points would very often see Villa relegated. This season we're probably lucky.

Pilchard, I can't see more than 1 of the bottom 5 overtaking Villa.

I have just read EIGHT pages of postings on this thread since I left my PC last evening.

Pretty well everyone is frustrated - and justifiably so. A couple seem to be trying to see a good side of McLeish or just accepting that he's staying so we may as well just accept him and his foibles.

I'll try to summarise some facts ...

1. Blackburn gave Villa too much room in the first half. They made Villa look good.

2. Villa finished the match with a reported 37% possession.

3. If Villa fail to win against Fulham next week then the club record of 8 home games without a win (set 1920/21) will be equalled.

4. Villa's squad is as good as Albion's, Swansea's or Norwich's.

5. Villa's main lack of strength is in midfield, yet yesterday's starting selection was i.m.o. the best fielded this season - on paper at least.

6. The man who McLeish seemed loathe to play - Quellar - seems capable of ahowing McLeish just how good he is.

Plus: It is strongly rumoured (but could be just idle talk) that McLeish's orders at h-t were to close up and break away when possible.

Villa should be nowhere near the position they are at. In fact, all it would take is 3 wins and Villa would be where Albion now is (9th). But the problem now lies that Villa (till last week) showed more chance of winning away - but all we got was 2 draws against relegation-zone teams.

The future of Villa now lies in whether they can start winning at home again. And they need to win the next two (Fulham, Bolton) to steer completely away from threat and to placate the fans.

Failure to so so will most likely see Villa finishing in 15th or even 16th when the season comes to an end.

So, having survived, is McLeish going to be able to change his spots after his years at Blews (and if-fy record in Scotland) when he buys in his own players? Of course not. Just what did he achieve at Blews?

Mr. Faulkner's expectations of "an exciting season" have produced a season of negative excitement, and the "... Bright Future" pronouncement of 5 years ago is looking anything but.

In fact I'm told (I'm only following text) that Villa should have been 3-up at h-t!!

Villa have allowed themselves to be and act just like Birmingham FC so now we are in a free fall plight just like them with their ex manager so its our own fault were in this mess.

To be honest i just cant see a way out either until Relegation is confirmed.

After the Houllier appointment i certainly didn't have faith in Lerner then and i never will do after MCleish when fans made it crystal clear they didn't want him as he is a SHIT manager and tbh apart from Randy's millions he's shown his footballing knowledge is totally inept.

To try to put some balance into this ...

It is clear that the board had to do something about the finances. The fact that the finances were not controlled properly before is of course relevant, but once it's done it's done - you then have to put in corrective measures.

They then needed to appoint a manager who would work with little team investment for at least one season ... but as other managers they may have approached were not interested in the 'little financial help' scenario it appears that McLeish was the Hobson's Choice.

Now if the board decide to continue with McLeish for next season is the critical point here. The omens seem to suggest that McLeish will stay, otherwise yet another payout will be due from Randy.

I can only see that an appropriate letter to Randy (with plenty of counter-signatures) is going to be the only way out for a change of course after this season.

Number of pages before he's sacked?

I'm going for 666.

I'm just worried there will be a 1 in front of that thus 1666 pages, as I'm deeply worried he will be here next season

There are, of course, some Villa fans out there that think that AM-not just needs to be given more time - that he'll turn it round once he's brought in his own players (his Bosman signings presumably).

Discuss. :shock:

The thing I keep coming back to is this: How out of touch with reality could those who appointed him be? Surely they must have thought, the ONLY way for this AM experiment to work is for him to get results in short order. They HAD to know that he would not be well-received, that he would be on a desperately short leash, and that, unless he got results quickly, the whole of the Villa fanbase would turn on him.

Knowing that, they would have to ask: is this man capable (with the resources, or lack of resources given him) of doing that? His past record suggests not.

Knowing that, they went ahead and paid off SHA, and gave him a THREE YEAR contract.

I don't care what you think of AM, that is some SHOCKING decision making there.

I am desperate to hear what the board are thinking now, and would die to hear their explanation of said decision making.

You have the same thoughts as me but they're too much like commonsense for the board to understand, mate.

Your duty, it seems, is to go and get behind the team no matter what decisions they make and the playing tactics that are used.

Reminds me of "Into the Valley of Death rode the 600..."

Even more ridiculous is bringing Taylor back. His first spell here was magnificent. The second saw him coming out of retirement after a year of the DOF at VP in which nothing was achieved and saw football and results similar to what we have now. He signed Oyvind Leonhardsen because he saw his name on the back of a program and wondered if he'd be any good still. A nice bloke, but in footballing terms a yesterday's man.

We need someone with the necessary contracts at home and abroad. With an idea about modern day money money money football. Taylor has never been that man.

Absolutely 100%.

Steve Stride would also not come back to be Faulkner's assistant and Lerner would not rid himself of Faulkner to employ Steve.

Well, the mention of GT was more about his structural skills, not his abilities a team manager. And the article was suggesting PF as well as Stride, not instead of - i.e. PF purely for his business skills - with Stride presumably alongside. It is true that PF being CEO would create a difficulty.

However, maybe you guys push me to re-think the point that if it had been set up that way in 2006 it might have worked. Maybe bringing in those fellers now is not appropriate - though the overall idea surely stands good, just different names needed.

Neil Moxley (Daily Mail) has written the following article which, I have to say, makes total sense to me ...

Headline: "I could cry at Villa's waste... we must revive the Lion Rampant, Mr Lerner"

They say a picture paints a thousand words. In the case of Aston Villa this week, I reckon a set of figures has done the same job.

Call me a cynical old hack but in years previous to this one, I can't remember the club publicising its annual accounts. The media has had to go searching for them.

So, whether the club actually wanted to draw attention to the depth of Randy Lerner's feelings for Villa in the wake of yet more anti-Alex McLeish protests at Wigan, it is difficult to say.

It has been reported in Sportsmail that the losses amount to just shy of £110m during the past three years (that's £28m, £37m and £54m). What is more, this year's have been sustained on the back of record revenue levels. Yes, if Villa's commercial activities weren't as good, they'd have waved goodbye to even more cash.

It would be unfair to go through players' wages on an individual basis. But let's just assume that Villa bought a senior player from a rival club in the Premier League for £3m. They agreed wages at £3m-a-year (plus) over four seasons. That's a £15m outlay.

Now toss into the mix that they lost significant sums on Curtis Davies, Nicky Shorey, Nigel Reo-Coker, Habib Beye, John Carew, Steve Sidwell, Zat Knight, Luke Young, Moustapha Salifou... I'm sure there are more. And it's pretty easy to see why they have hemorrhaged money.

Not even the cash raised by the sales of Gareth Barry, James Milner, Stewart Downing and Ashley Young could stem the tide.

There was a story for instance, that Luke Young turned down a move to Liverpool the season before last because he didn't want to take a drop in wages to £38,000-a-week. Believable? More so now.

A scout telephoned yours truly after making an enquiry for Habib Beye but his club baulked at taking over the defender's £42,000-a-week salary. The player must have cost Villa around £8m in total. For what?

There have been times at Villa last season when I reckon it was costing the club £250,000-a-week to pay the players who sat on the substitutes' bench on a Saturday afternoon. Seriously, I could cry at the waste.

However, now the truth is out, I want to say a few things. Not all of them positive, but some are.

First, I agree with Vital Villa website editor Jonathan Fear that those who doubt Lerner's commitment to the club should take a long, hard look at the accounts. Never mind the tattoo, his devotion to the claret and blue cause has cost him the thick end of £200m.

Secondly, in the light of the past overspend Lerner can be forgiven for reigning in the spending.

Thirdly, strict financial controls must be put in place to ensure this leakage stops. Now. Which I'm sure there has been, in fairness.

And lastly, Lerner needs to stop being so pig-headed about his acquisition of his favourite team. I respect what the money he has spent/wasted (delete as applicable). And I respect the reasons why he has done it. To realise the dream of every Villa fan out there - to see Aston Villa dining once more at the top table of English football.

But the sheer arrogance and folly of taking over a football club in the English Premier League and thinking he knew what he was doing has resulted in these gargantuan losses. There was no check on Martin O'Neill's spending. And the least said about the Frenchman who followed, the better.

So, let's cut to the chase, Randy. My favourite American football team is the Green Bay Packers. Why? I liked the colour of the strip when the sport was first shown over here on Channel Four way back when.

But if I had bought the franchise, the last thing I would do is go over there and try to do it my way. I'd watch, listen, learn. Steal best practices from other clubs. Look at successful models, such as Arsenal. They have just posted a £49m profit. Imitation is the most successful form of flattery, after all.

I wrote at the time that it was madness to allow Steve Stride to leave the football club. He was an understated power behind the throne of HD Ellis. Moreover, he's a Villa fan, for goodness sake.

He could have been paid off, but kept on as a consultant. To be there at the end of the phone whenever you were unsure about something. A man who knew people at Soho Square, the Premier League and at UEFA. He would have smoothed your transition into English football.

He's not a difficult man to work with, either - he had just finished a 30-year stint with Mr Ellis. He might have raised a few questions about O'Neill's transfer policy at the time, too. Furthermore, I would pick up the phone and get another Villa man in to oversee the club's development. So, step forward Graham Taylor.

Taylor would have the drive, the energy and the desire to set-up a proper scouting system, to act as that buffer between manager and owner regarding transfer policy. It's been tried before, I know, but Doug (bless him) was Villa's unofficial director of football. You couldn't have two men doing the same job and Taylor is one of few men who I believe actually has some integrity in this selfish game.

Paul Faulkner is a good guy. He's been thrown in at the deep end and he's now learnt to swim with the sharks. So, point them all in the right direction Mr Lerner. Tell them what you want. Let them plot how best to get there.

Faulkner, Stride, Taylor - let's breathe some life back into the Lion Rampant. It's not going to cost you £110m.

You know, when John Gregory took over as manager he was telephoned by Arthur Cox. 'This isn't a corner shop you've taken charge of,' the new boss was told. 'You've just been handed the keys to a bloody megastore!'

Unfortunately, McLeish's stock is overpriced and a lot of it is past its sell-by date. The stuff out the back isn't up to the job, either. But this is an opportunity. Let's get Aston Villa lean, mean and fighting fit again.

Because at the moment Mr Lerner, you've lost around £110m in three years, you've made the most unpopular managerial appointment in the club's history, your trophy count in the past six years stands at a whopping nil - and the club is currently sitting in 15th place out of 20 in the Premier League. Champions League? Championship, more like.

Face facts. It's just not right at the moment... is it Mr Lerner?

Link here

We dont want a side to challenge the top 4 anymore we just want a team that will play football like Swansea or Norwich or any other half decent side!!

Even Cardiff City, one division down.

Lerg, I trust the 'Peoples Popular Front' to ensure they know exactly how we feel and make it clear our views on his tenure

With one mostly in another time zone and the others counting the remaining pennies, I'm not sure they know what a PPF is, Denis!!

[...If he takes us down, it will tarnish his career far, far more. Its unthinkable.

...

Good post.

Agreed .... but the chances are that 3 of the current bottom 5 will go down.

The worry is that if Villa stay up the board might think that AM has done a good job.

Should McLeish still be at the club next season, it will just show what a clueless, know nothing about football, Board we have. How anyone can think that he is doing a decent job for Villa is totally beyond me. It also tells me that Faulkner knows so very little about how a football club should be run and that Randy, useless selector of people he is, chose that knob to run the daily affairs of our club. Bad and sad, shit all round. This will not end well for the fans.

Villa has been through at least as bad situations before in the club's existence, but I doubt (unless great changes are made in the board and in the management) that the situation this time will be as rectifiable. In 1968, the situation was changed by a revolution, but unless I'm mistaken I cannot see another of that type occurring or Randy selling up.

On the playing front, Keane has gone, Bent is broken and Dunne is done for the rest of the season. On top of that we are told that Gabby is being held back by an injury (to be sorted in the summer), Clark is out and Petrov was also missing yesterday. Nzog and Ireland look as though they are being treated as sinners. And then there's the question of AM-not's tactics - simply to play to not lose and grab a win if possible.

Being rid of AM-not is one thing, but the big question - now being accepted by more and more fans as the weeks roll by - is, "does the board need a make-over?" I think a lot of people would be happy for Lerner to stay, but it's the question of the kind of decisions that have been made at the board level that seem to have caused the club's current situation.

I hear that Ian Taylor would be very happy to play a role on the board. However, whether Ian Taylor would be enough to redress the balance on the board is a moot point. Perhaps Graham Taylor is needed as well - in fact as many Taylors as are needed to mend things!! Jokes aside, the imbalance on the Villa board is frightening i.m.o. and does need addressing.

Perhaps it needs a polite letter with plenty of signatures to be addressed to the owner?