PB

I think Christian has answered his critics in the best possible way. Keep it up kiddo

Surely with decent Service anyone can score goals

If that was true, clubs wouldnt pay millions and millions for strikers

Apparently Bowery is doing very well for the U21s. He is reportedly loving it here and looking forward to his chance when it comes

I think we are in such a state that if Dunne is fir he should partner Vlaar. I would move CC into midfield to partner Westwood, and move KEA forward into the attacking three behind Benteke, with Gabby And Ireland.

Against Swindon he was shocking. He was genuinely that bad that i couldnt quite believe he was getting paid to play football. I really feared for us when he came on against Sunderland, but he seemed to do OK. Against United though? I think its clear I'd rather hope Bennett gets fit

Gornik Zabre? theres a blast from the past for us old uns.

A player called milk? Cue a million dairy themed jokes

Would love to see some actual evidence being used to defend the way we've sold our best players and reinvested.

Because from what I've seen I can't really see anything to defend, hence our pretty awful squad and dropping more than any other team over the past 2 years.

Quite clearly the way we've sold top players and reinvested has failed massively.

But it's Randy Lerner so it's defended by some.

The books show clearly that he has put everything back in plus some

Where it has gone is on wages, fat long term deals agreed on players like Cuellar, Collins, Beye, Heskey, Ireland etc. Thats about £10 million per year in wages right there. Not that hard to grasp is it?

Benteke picks up an injury, or needs resting after we sell Bent. What then? Do we rely on Gabby or Weimann?

Bent might very well have thrown his rattle out of his pram. However, no player should be happy with being benched, especially an international player and i while not condoning it, i can understand why Bent is not happy.

Secure our Premiership safety first and if we have to drop the expected price on him in the summer then so be it. The increase in revenue from TV will more than cover that.

I agree that Bent *should* be upset about being dropped, I dont have any issues with that. I have issues with him *publicly* being so upset though.

I would imagine that rather than relying on Gabby and Andi the plan would be to buy another striker to replace him

I am not as convinced as you that bent represents a route to safety. I dont think we have the players to supply him any more with the kind of service he eeds

You take no account of the £50+ m a year we get off sky

What do our accounts show? Do they show money coming in (ie profit for randy) or losses (ie Randy putting money in)?

I'm almost certain that they show significant losses, but I could be wrong. If so, then that means all the money from sales, plus some, has been re-invested, almost all into wages

He played well yesterday, but weak against Swindon

Consistency needed imo

LOL what? anyway selling your best players is never a good idea.

I'd thought fans would've realised this seeing Ash etc leave.. Lambert should be finding players to provide the service not looking to sell him.

a proper goalscorer which most clubs would love and fans are claiming to sell him off, crazy.

Darren bent is nowhere near the quality of Young. He is also not our best player imo. I also dont agree that most clubs would love him. Opinions eh?

It does have to be said that the MOTD highlights failed in any way to represent the game in any meaningful fashion. As has been said this should surprise no one

We're still 17th because Norwich and Wigan won. We couldn't have done any more today. Sunderland and Stoke are getting sucked into the battle though.

Hmm. I think we are 17th because we have only 9 points, which combined with a poor goal difference is a worse record than 16 other teams

As far as i can see i have been the only poster who has asked for Lambert to be sacked and replaced by Redknapp.

If those comments were not directed at me in particular then i apologize for the asumption but the actual point of the debate i still stand by my opinion.

Seriously? You have asked for Lambert to be sacked? Wow

In the interests of balance and objectivity, it is worth noting that we needed that win so badly, that despite winning we are still fourth from bottom. More improvement needed

Reading your first paragraph it seems it is directed at me which is fair enough. First of all, i don't play Football Manager and never have done on any games console. So that in itself disproves your theory right away if you take your first paragraph into consideration. Like most football fans i can read. I buy the tabloids to specifically read about football. Within those tabloids there is plentiful information concerning transfers and how protracted they can be.

Being lucky enough to own a television, allows me to actually watch MOTD, Football Focus and Jeff Sterling on Sky. What do those programmes cover? Well the last time i looked, they cover everything to do with football. The clue is in the title of the programme you see. They are actually very informative. They talk about how clubs are run, transfer windows, and they actually speak to players, managers and board members from time to time describing how their clubs are run and how difficult it can be to buy players. Yes they actually do that you know!! These programmes always have very high viewing figures and i would hazard a guess that everyone on VT has at sometime watched at least one of those programmes, or, at the very least, have been able to read the sports pages of a newspaper.

I would also hazard a guess that many fans have also played 'Football Manager' or whatever else is available to play pertaining to football on a games console. The difference being, that with the availability of the media to the masses, i would assume that those who indeed use a games console, are very much aware of what is real and what is not unless you are a phychopath.

And you accuse other people of being condescending?

Why did you think the post was aimed at you? Do you expect a new manager to come in and turn a shambles of a club around in less ten games? Did you expect the kid from belgium to have delivered more than he has done? If so, would you care to explain why,given your encyclopedic (albeit media based) knowledge of football?

I would hope that ALL posters on here would know the difference between video games and reality and I certainly do not believe he is right.

Well, you would hope so. What do you attribute the tendency fo some posters on here to want everything now to? Like, there are some who think a manager can come in and turn around a shambles of a football club in less than ten games. There are others who expect a kid from Belgium to have somehow deliverrd more than he has done already.

I know form experience that playing these games, if I sign a star player I expect him to tick immediately, he is a creature made of statistics who doesnt require a settling in period. If I take over a struggling club I can look on various forums and find a formula for turning that club around. If I fail, I reload.

It seems to me as if this is the attitude that certain posters have on here, wouldnt you agree? It seems as if some posters have forgotten that football is a game involving people, people exactly the same as you or me

Downing coming back would be more of a problem for some fans than him I suspect. This may make a return difficult I agree.

But he is the type we are crying out for and has hardly settled up there

I dont really agree that Downing is what we need

Milner or barry? Yes. Downing? No.

Half that Swindon team will be playing for us in January [jokes]

Really glad I went along last night to see the lad play. Enjoy him while you can, a player of his quality isnt going to hang around this shower long, destined for big things

Could really debate all your points there but will instead state this.

If there had been any chance at all of Moyes coming to this club who would the chairman and fans have preferred. Moyes or Lambert?

I would also suggest that you stop fielding the insults to back your debate. It's becoming tiresome.

oh, and instead of dodging the debate in this kind of way, and making epople think you dont have a valid answer to the point raised, as you have done several times in the past few days, try making your point, go on, its fun

So lets hear your reasons as to why you think the points I made about Moyes arent true. I'd be really interested to hear them, because I remember Everton staying up on the last day. Do you not remember that?

Could really debate all your points there but will instead state this.

If there had been any chance at all of Moyes coming to this club who would the chairman and fans have preferred. Moyes or Lambert?

I would also suggest that you stop fielding the insults to back your debate. It's becoming tiresome.

Did you feel the comment was aimed at you?

I'm sorry, it was aimed at the kids (young and old) who think a guy can walk into a disaster zone of a football club and turn it around in five minutes, like you can on Champ manager or whatever its called these days

Thats quite clearly not you, is it?

The kid just needs to be given more time to settle, more patience. He was bought for peanuts, he is very young, but he will score goals. I just hope he is still here when he starts scoring, and isnt chased off by the boo boys, because this kid is going to be huge, he has all the attributes to play at the very highest level. One day he will change hands to a major club for a major fee. I hope the fans of this football club stick with him, stop bloody laughing at him and mocking him, and give him support. If they do, then it will be us that benefits from his goals before he moves on to bigger and better things and we benefit financially too.

Anyone who has seen him playing for Belgium can see just how good he is. So, he has missed a few chances. All strikers do, every single one of them has spells like that. Get behind the lad, let him know he has come to a club with real fans who will support him.

I know, fat chance of that, the boo boys will have their way, as they always ever have done at this club. Our own worst enemies

The difference though between Moyes and Lambert at the moment is that generally speaking the players that Moyes buys have an immediate impact on the team and thats why he has been so successful on a limited budget!

Moyes has never, ever had a poor spell as Everton manager

Moys has never ever nearly been relegated with Everton

Moyes has never ever bought a dud

Moyes has never ever had periods where his team played boring, negative, overly physical football

Oh hang on, sorry, I made all that up, in fact all of these things are true, but the Everton fans and board arent fickle, impatient kids who think its all a computer game.

And, as for these fans allegedly laughing at Benteke in training, I have only this to say

Shit support m'lord