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It feels like an absolute no brainer to sell him if we get a decent enough offer. (£50m+) We simply dont have any choice. He has hardly been a factor in the success we have had to this point this season. It is just the realities of the modern game. We all hate selling home grown players and players who have come through the ranks. With the way FFP works we could strengthen massively in other areas like RB or attacking options. He just isnt irreplaceable in the way Grealish was. Hasn't played anywhere close to the same level. 

The move in the betting markets suggest that Watkins is out.

If we are offered the 17/18m that City seem to be getting for all their youngsters I think we should take it. With a sell on clause. Realistically, he is so far away from the starting XI atm. Jacob will be struggling for a starting spot this season. We are not in a position now where he will be able to play a whole season to find his feet like his brother was able to. He is not that young anymore. We are just not in a position atm with FFP to have assets that valuable not being properly utilised. City have the model others should be aspiring to. The youngsters are funding seriously good acquisitions for the First Team. If any youngster is that special they just keep them anyway. Or can buyback at a later date. 

19 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

There is nothing against betting sponsorship of PL clubs. So Purslow has to make the decision in the best interest of Aston Villa. I believe that taking the best offer financially in terms of sponsors and doing the due diligence on the company and their financial health is the right path to take. Then to also take any blow back / tough questions from a section of fans who have an objection to this. 

I would be happier if the club was doing the proper due diligence. What is clear is that none of the clubs are doing the required due diligence and that includes the likes of Man City. These companies are a complete sham. 

28 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

The massive piece of information that is missing here. The choice of having a gambling company as sponsor is weighed up against the other sponsor options. How much are they offering in terms of sponsorship money. Without knowing that information there's no way to understand a decision.

The club primary purpose is to be successful at football and to do that is highly linked to income. So the decision that is to be made is gambling sponsor will pay us X and non gambling sponsor will pay us Y. There are sections of our fans who will be upset by having a gambling sponsor. Is the gap in money worth that trade off. 

I think the club has clearly decided the answer to that is yes. 

 

 

As you say we have no idea what commercial deals are on the table. There are plenty of other questionable ones at other clubs. The Arsenal and Rwanda one seems particularly odd. It is very short term thinking to always take the biggest money on offer now. Lets say Villa had taken sponsorship with a company such as Football Index. It collapsed causing a lot of people to be seriously out of pocket, If that happens to Villa fans they wont be so happy. By partnering with Villa these companies are being given credibility they dont deserve. It can never simply by about X v Y. If Purslow cannot find other brands and sponsors then maybe its time to find someone who can. 

I talk at length about betting and the various issues surrounding it at length on my Twitter feed and blog. I think the main issues are these;

1. Do Aston Villa as a brand want to be associated with not just a betting company but one that is incredibly shady at best.

The answer from my POV is no. I can understand why the club feels pressure to go down the betting route and has done for a while now. If you are going to do it, at least do something where the company involved is a pioneer in the space (ie Fulham and Betfair a few years ago). The company Villa are getting into bed with are so incredibly shady it is untrue. It has zero credibility within the space. It is clearly just a desperate money grab.

2. Do you want Aston Villa to be associated with betting companies fullstop?

I think you have to look at the different aspects. Shirt Sponsorship, Ground Hoarding Sponsorships, Betting Partners. The problem with the first two aree the fact that it exposes children to betting. Constantly and utterly unrelentingly. I can see a case for a betting partner with kiosks in the stands. I can live with that but think the others are seriously flawed given the collateral damage for children. There is no way for them to avoid it. Yes the kids shirts dont have betting sponsors on them but they will see the brand names constantly on adult shirts. 

3. What should Villa do about it?

This is a chance for Villa to take the right stance and actually adopt a no betting sponsorship policy. Make yourself stand out in the PL. Be a forerunner in driving the issues. It would make the club appear very classy imo. Hopefully, it would help attract other quality brands to the club.

4. What the future holds?

Point 3 is thinking ahead of the curve because betting sponsorships will eventually be banned at football clubs imo. When it happens so many clubs will be desperate for new sponsors to fill the void. You want to do it first. 

I talk a lot about the morals of gambling etc on my feed. As a pro punter I obviously have no real issues with it apart from the behaviours the bookies demonstrate. Its a very morally questionable industry and the predatory nature of those involved has to be seen to be believed. I just dont think it shines Aston Villa in the light it should. 

Absolutely comical blaming him for the first goal. His positioning was fine. It was just a great finish. If people are blaming him for that then there isnt a shot from that angle that can be scored without it being the keepers fault. 

The second one is much tougher. Only he will know whether he could have done more. Lots of keepers wouldn't have got anything on it. Almost criticised for getting so close to saving it. 

Everyone is really saying it comes down to game time and money. What I struggle with most is that he is surely couldn't find a more favourable environment to develop. Whether that be learning from SG or GM. Or be surrounded by the likes of Coutinho, Buendia, Bailey, Traore, McGinn, Ramsey etc. It just feels like he should be learning so much from them and it should be what helps him to the next level. 

I will also never understand the vitriol towards him on this thread. He is still a Villa player. Its his right to keep his options open. Until that changes everyone should be behind him hoping he signs a new contract. If he leaves and your mentality is that you want to give him abuse do it then. Just ridiculous the hate towards him when nothing has been decided yet. The abuse on here will hardly make him want to stay. 

4 minutes ago, allani said:

Just out of interest where are you getting these expected finishing positions from?  It sounds like there is a wider "analysis" than just Villa if you are saying that West Ham, Leicester and ourselves are expected to finish 8th, 9th and 10th behind the Sly 6 and Newcastle but very close together?  I'd be interested in having a further look and seeing how they support those expectations (maybe it will help me change my mind?!).

I am guessing from your wording though that in that assessment then West Ham and Leicester are 8th and 9th and we are 10th - all be it only by half a point.  In which case surely we should be saying that top half would be in line with that assessment rather than anything less than top 8 being disappointing?  I really can't see us finishing above either West Ham or Leicester this season unless we sign another player - there is a reason that they have finished in the top 8 five times out of six between them in the last 3 seasons and we haven't even been close.  To finish above both of them would be an absolutely massive jump forwards.  I suspect that Leicester, West Ham, Newcastle and Brighton (although I would put Palace and Wolves as above Brighton in terms of threat level next season) can all also point to things that didn't go their way last season (hell Everton fans are trying to claim that they should have finished above us last season if it hadn't been for VAR decisions going against them!).  In reality I think things probably balanced out on the whole (like they did both the season before and the season we just stayed up) except that maybe Brighton and Brentford did better than others expected..

I still don't believe that our fundamental issue in midfield has been fully addressed.  Kamara seems to have done well yesterday but we haven't seen him in a PL match yet.  Luiz and McGinn together have dominated fewer matches than those in which they have been dominated.  It's not an excuse.  It's a statement that we are still (in my opinion) unbalanced.  One more midfielder changes almost all of that.  Having the ability to bring on the likes of Luiz, JJ or McGinn with 30 minutes to go would be fantastic.  But having 2 of those 3 starting 38 matches next season for me means that 10th / 11th is more realistic than 7th / 8th.

Hopefully we make that one additional signing soon and then I think we can be more confident of being in the mix with Leicester, West Ham and Newcastle for "best of the rest" (with the possibility that one of the Sly 6 has a poor season and turns it into a 5 way battle for 6th, 7th and 8th.

You can see the expected points for each team on Sporting index. Leicester and us have the same expected pts with West Ham 0.5pts ahead. They are the most respected spread betting firm. It just gives an idea of how those who have money invested in these things view it. Its nice to see a more objective view.

Fwiw I dont think we have sorted the midfield either. Still need another top quality player in there. Never convinced by Luiz. Think Ramsey potentially overrated at this stage. McGinn too inconsistent. If we can sort it think we will be top 8. 

4 hours ago, allani said:

The key point being "if things go well".  The general assumption seems to be that we should be finishing around the top 8 this season otherwise we will have failed.  My point is that (on paper) 8th would be a significant over-performance.  Of course we could do it but the odds of doing so are not as good as some people seem to be making it out.  If things don't go well (a couple of injuries or a collective loss of form) then we could easily finish where we did this season.  You are right - we are within striking distance.  One more good signing will really help establish the balance that the team / squad has been missing for 3 seasons.  Kamara is a great step in the right direction (hopefully!) but we are putting a hell of a lot of pressure / expectation on a young lad in a new country if we are expecting him to solve all our problems in midfield.  Dougie and McGinn might both be better with Kamara behind them - but I have doubts that a midfield with Luiz and McGinn playing the majority of minutes in the majority of games will be consistent enough to finish in 8th place.  An extra (better) player in that position will suddenly give us real strength in depth to maintain a challenge for longer.

Similarly I hope that our defence will be better with Mings having a more senior partner alongside him (in terms of quality / reading of the game) keeping him on his toes.  But I still worry that when put under pressure we will resort to the "whack the ball down the channel" tactic that has put us under pressure for spells of each of the last 3 seasons.

Pretty sure I have said better balanced squads.  Of course all the mid-table teams will have weaknesses that other teams will try to exploit.  But our midfield has spluttered for 3 seasons on the trot - brilliant at times, woeful at others.  We've started to address that but I think people are being overly optimistic if they think that we will go from 14th to 8th based on signing one midfield player.  I expect that fans of Leicester, West Ham, Newcastle, Palace and Wolves would expect their teams to finish above Villa.  After all they have done for the last few seasons.  I suspect that most independent outsiders would look at our signings and say we've done OK but I doubt many would put us in the top 8 for next season.  We are definitely closing the gap and so far Gerrard and the Board seem to have been tackling the right problems with their transfer dealings this summer.  So there are plenty of positives.  But unless we can manage to control more games from the centre of the pitch we will probably continue to be incredibly inconsistent.  I am sure that this is what SG is saying to the Board (it is definitely what he is saying in public).  For me we are 1 (ideally 2) players away from being a really good team.  At the moment we are a mid-table team equally as capable of finishing 8th as we are of finishing 14th.  I don't think we will do either of those things (one assumes everything clicks for us, the other implies that lots of things conspire against us).  We could finish top half but to say that we should finish top half without question is (in my opinion) wildly optimistic.

Anyway, it is all (hopefully!) a moot point because I do think that we will be signing another midfielder (and that some kind of agreement will be made with Luiz) and at that stage I will 100% be jumping on the Top 8 bandwagon (well maybe Top 9 just because I have been disappointed for too many seasons to not have doubts that something will go wrong for us at some point! ).

Expectations are always interesting. As it currently stands we are expected to finish 8th/9th/10th. There is half a point in terms of expected points between ourselves, West Ham and Leicester. Newcastle are a little ahead in 7th and Brighton back in 11th. So many things didnt go our way last year that I dont think are truly accounted for in those numbers. I think anything less than top 8 will be disappointing. We can have no excuses this year. No new manager. No star player has just left. 

The amount of criticism he receives on here is insane. He hasn't said he wants to leave. Everyone is just making assumptions. Its because he is so good that he will have so many options that the decision is so tough. If he wasn't so good, then it is much easier as far few offers. 

It is rare that you see kids look so dominant in their age groups. Yes he hasn't taken the first team by storm yet but he is also up against some very seasoned professionals. He has been caught in the cross fire between the desire to win now and the need to build for the future. Once we couldn't finish in the top 7/8 Gerrard should have given the kids like CC far more playing time. It is so tough to expect young kids to come off the bench and change a game. There are so few players who have the calmness and time in possession that he has. He will be an absolute superstar.

We cannot afford to lose him for peanuts at this stage. I know everyone is worried about the precedent it sets in terms of other youth players but he is too valuable to let go if it is a decision coming down purely to money. The minute he signs a new contract he will be worth at least £20m+. He has the upside to be worth some crazy figures. Home grown 18 year old superstars dont come along every year. You can see how important the home grown factor is in the recent Williams and Collins transfers. 

Everyone tries to sugarcoat it saying he isnt all that etc. He is a ridiculous talent and to lose him at this stage of the journey would be a disaster. 

Hi,

I have been following this forum for so many years now. Thought I should finally add my opinions to it.

First started going to Villa as a ST holder in 1987 in the days of Taylor and Venglos. Was there for the 6-2 Everton drubbing etc. no longer a ST holder as based in London but go to games when I can.