ZL-

I think we all would have liked to have seen more of Tim post-Kamara injury but I'm more and more impressed with his increasing cameos and the assuredness he's displaying.

In the Wolves game he slotted in seamlessly and feel Unai has handled his transition very well. It reminds of Ramsey's breakthrough. he perhaps had around 10, 20 minute cameos before he got a full on start by Dean.

One thing interesting to note was Unai has repeatedly referenced 'when Tim tells me he is ready to play, he will play' makes me think its down to to confidence. Perhaps QPR experience knocked him a tad, we all imagine footballer as wild egos and always believing in themselves but think doubt can creep in more than we may think.

Feels like he's becoming more of the Tim all these coaches see in training and look forward to his first start!

Excited to see the return of Tim.

I'm not sure if injury had saved him inadvertantly from Monchi's chop. He may also have had a mixed loan spell at QPR (with mitigating factors IMO) but for me he has been the most exciting youngster in the recent crop alongside Chuk.

A positive of his loan spell, which seemed like a negative at the time was the amount of positions he covered.

We all know how much flexibility is a desired trait for Unai by now. Despite the selling of academy talent I think Tim stands a good chance to make an impact, at the very minimum usurping Donk as the rotation option for Kamara.

On 09/10/2023 at 13:43, DJBOB said:

This is the third game we have seen the Konsa-Diego-Pau back three, all away, and I’m still pretty mixed about it. 
 
I think Unai likes the defensive solidity of it but we seem a lot less snappy and I think that’s a result of the back line causing a lack of ball carriers in the team. Cash and McGinn are not 1v1 players so we struggle to pull teams around. 
 
I wonder if that is Unai’s purpose with this tweak. Defensive solidity but sacrificing almost any creativity. 
 
We did carve Burnley apart with this formation but I think that has more to do with Burnley. 

I agree on it not looking our most fluid shape so far, but I'm pretty confident that it's Emery's first choice shape with Mings likely playing the Carlos role. Given the injuries to both we haven't been able to give the Konsa RB formation as much minutes as we'd like. 

Whilst we've been alternating the attack thrust between Digne and Cash I also feel the above formation is taking into account a more permanent LB attacking role with Moreno's return, who I'm sure we can agree finds that role far more comfortable than either Digne or Cash.

We'd then have Diaby for width on the right or Zaniolo if we needed Diaby more central. We'd then see Cash minutes reduced to when we wanted a more defensive RW option.

Will be interesting to see how this shape pans out, certainly is favourable to Carlos and Pau but feel one downside is shifting Konsa, our best defender by some margin, to a less natural position.

What do we all think of Ramsey's long term position? The current LM role feels tailor made for him but also very Emery specific, if (god help us) Emery was to leave or change formation completely do people still see him as more of a CM as before or as a permanent left wing player?

Feel the lack of clarity on what role might hurt his England chances, which whilst we might not be bothered with, matters to the players a lot clearly.

See also: JJ's reaction to being shown his FIFA card in which he puzzled asks LM? when he sees his position

1 hour ago, useless said:

I'm pretty sure he was only playing right-back as the that was the easiest way to get him on the pitch, was just a case of getting some minutes into his legs, Seb Revan and Kellyman were also playing out of position, so team was a little disjointed when we made all those subs.

Right back is one of the position where the academy is well stacked, Kesler, Barber, Triston Rowe, and Ashton McWilliams, and Frankie Ealing.

My guess is he will go to the Championship with the expectation that he will be used as a DM, he had offers to go to the Championship in January but because he'd just come back from a year out went to League One instead to guarantee as much game time as possible.

Thanks for the insight Useless. I did think it was strange seeing him at RB but made a lot of sense given his skillset.

I do think KKH getting sent on loan immediately, as well as seeing out 2nd half of the season with u21s under Unai was telling however. Barber and Tristan Rowe clear talents but given their age it seems there is a clear opportunity for Bogarde in the short-run if that RB role is anything more than shoehorning him for game time like you said.

Really impressed me for his cameo vs Walsall.

Had not considered him RB but given the modern interpretation where RB have more of a CB/CDM skillset it makes a lot of sense that his profile fits very well there.

Had a wonderful range of passing, which is the main thing we are looking to upgrade on at RB, linked up well with Kadan Young. Great technical ability also to dribble his way out of trouble a few times.

By all accounts his season at Bristol went very well and despite joining us with a big reputation has seemed to fly under the radar somewhat.

Personally really hope we see some more considerable minutes for him at RB throughout pre-season. Looks like KKH is not fancied at all anymore for us and feel the Konsa at RB as an option is over-egged by fans.

If Bogarde can be an option at RB would save us a lot of money!

3 hours ago, CVByrne said:

I was wondering if we are planning a more specific 3 CBs at the back next season. So the current RCB can be left footed or right footed if they operate in the central role.

For example Moreno, Mings, Carlos, Konsa or Moreno, Mings, Torres, Carlos

We move to a 3 box 3 in build up it's just how we create that. 

We could see us start with 3 at the back potentially. I think Emery will have some tactical evolutions and maybe having 4 top CBs is a requirement

I agree with this, whether it is achieved with a new CB coming in at CCB or LCB or an RB that is closer to a CB makes no difference and achieves the same thing.

Look at the evolution of Pep's City this year, they too adopted a 3 box 3 but given how attack minded the 3 box 3 can be when pushing up in possession - Pep said he learnt it was key to have proper defenders who can handle 1v1 duels, Stones, Dias, Ake, Akanji was essentially a full CB backline that was key in their treble charge.

Our first phase play was much improved but there still is a much higher level to go, more teams will be sitting back vs us and ability on the ball from the backline will be key, as well as being far more natural defending high up the pitch.

I have a dream...

Would be our primary system replicating our general structure from last year below:

The alternative with the addition of Tielemans allows us is to push him and Luiz as free 8s to help us break down low blocks, which I expect we will be facing a lot more of next season.

You can swap Goncalves for any other second striker/AM we have been linked to such as Ferran Torres/Deulofeu and previously Asensio

Similarly Nico Williams could be swapped for a Chukwueze or Lee Kang-In.

Finally Pau Torres could be swapped for an actual RB instead of Konsa moving across, haven't seen many RB legitimately linked but a Fresneda/AWB would fit the bill here.

The above, whilst requiring pulling off some pretty massive transfers would fit into the greater plan Unai is building and put our squad composition firmly in a place for very strong league performance and conference chances.

3 minutes ago, av1 said:

Obviously a 4min video doesn’t tell the whole story, but everything good he did in that video seemed to come from him playing on the left. 
 

Is there a spot for that sort of player in our setup? Emery seems to like the width coming from the fullback on that side. 

Yeah it's definitely true - the video was just since he joined Barca who have played him on that side but he's played across the whole front 3.

As you can see he's more than capable of holding that right-wing width for us. He is right footed so goal output maybe better from left but is pretty adept with both feet.

21 minutes ago, ZL- said:

It's a good point Nick and have thought about it too. For me we are currently playing Emery's two striker system - I try not to read too specifically in the term striker here but essentially one of the two furthest forward.

Looking at his previous teams it as been one classical 9 like Moreno and then one more 'converted' forward who's more comfortable drifting to the wings and playing a bit deeper like Danjuma.

Watkins naturally fits more into the Moreno archetype and it feels we are yet to find our Danjuma archetype with Bailey closest of profile but not of desired effectiveness.

 

This leads me to thinking the 'striker' we are looking for is much more likely to be of a Torres profile replicating Danjuma's role than a classic 9 to replace/compete with Watkins. But it is all speculation and we will never fully know what he's thinking!

Highlight reel caveats etc but has recently developed focusing on his in the box finishing and poaching whilst doing a lot of good work on either wing and a bit deeper. Perfect foil playing off Watkins knock downs, similar to how we see Alvarez with Haaland recently or even how Goncalves plays at Sporting.

21 hours ago, nick76 said:

So Emery keeps saying he wants a striker….not a forward but a striker.  

So while Torres has been linked, a lot on the main links for the role you are suggesting has been different type of player like Nico Williams who we have been linked with who I would much prefer to Torres.  While Torres went to Spain for very good money from City, I’m not sure he was suiting English football so I’m not sure about big money spent on him.

Back to the striker though, if there was any chance  of Vlahovic I would jump at that unlikely I doubt he’d come to us but we need another striker.

It's a good point Nick and have thought about it too. For me we are currently playing Emery's two striker system - I try not to read too specifically in the term striker here but essentially one of the two furthest forward.

Looking at his previous teams it as been one classical 9 like Moreno and then one more 'converted' forward who's more comfortable drifting to the wings and playing a bit deeper like Danjuma.

Watkins naturally fits more into the Moreno archetype and it feels we are yet to find our Danjuma archetype with Bailey closest of profile but not of desired effectiveness.

This leads me to thinking the 'striker' we are looking for is much more likely to be of a Torres profile replicating Danjuma's role than a classic 9 to replace/compete with Watkins. But it is all speculation and we will never fully know what he's thinking!

Summarising the trends of the links we've had as well as the comments around Emery/Alemany that we will be looking for a 'forward' , 'winger' , 'dynamic midfielder' and 'right back'.

As well as focusing on La Liga targets that take advantage of the larger than ever financial disparity.

I'm speculating (hoping) we end up realistically with something like the above.

Lee Kang-In (£15m) Mallorca - Winger that can play on either side, similarities with how Ramsey plays but with a far better technical capability right now, should provide a creator role in the team as well as having strong outlet capabilities. A small touch but as a Spanish speaker would be able to communicate with Moreno from the off. The release clause of around £15m is more than doable for Villa but it feels his hype is accelerating exponentially from Lee carrying Mallorca this season with the likes of Atletico wanting to make a moved allegedly. Alemany promoted him from the youth team at Valencia so you'd feel it's deals like this even with competition that he'll earn his keep on.

Guendouzi (£20m) Marseille - Dynamic midfielder profile, Guendouzi would be an immediate upgrade to McGinn on the withdrawn wide midfield role having played similar interpretations over his time at Marseille. He would provide immediately quality in either CM role and despite him and Kamara already forging a double pivot relationship I wouldn't be eager on breaking up Luiz and Kamara, regardless his profile and ability to cover multiple positions fits the brief. Whilst Matteo is not a La Liga target per se, the links with Emery are well documented and given Marseille's extremely high asking price mid-title push it feels we were told to explicitly wait to the summer. Marseille signed Malinovskyi, a very similar player to Guendouzi in January but was loaned back to Atalanta until the summer. Guendouzi has recently been phased out by Tudor, understood not on the back of bad performances but perhaps preparing for his summer exit.

Fresneda (£20m) Real Valladolid - RB, to me this is the most ambitious target on the list, whilst there has been links, Ivan was by all means signed sealed and delivered to Arsenal in January but did not want to loan him back under Real Valladolid's request. All elite clubs seem to be monitoring right now, at only 18 years old is showing great maturity and has been famed for his defensive capabilities which we know will be what is profiled for the RB in Emery's lopsided shape. What makes me want Fresneda over other defensive RB's such as AWB is his ability in build up which still feels weak down our right hand side. Whilst the fee will likely not be the stumbling block this is a target I'd like to Alemany prove his worth and provide a clear career path into first XI despite his age that will make him choose us over the UCL sides also chasing.

Torres (£40m) Barcelona - Forward that would be a perfect candidate for our second striker role, whilst traditionally has played on either wing Ferran has always been more of an outside forward with poaching instincts. Like Baikey for us he could help provide cover at either wing as well as the forward role. He dribbles from deep and is comfortable with either foot and I think would play off Watkins very well. Out of all the targets, no doubt the biggest name and by all accounts does not want to leave Barcelona. Given one of the reasons he left City despite an impressive campaign was homesick it questions how doable this deal is. Like Lee however Alemany promoted Torres to the Valencia senior team as well as brought him to Barcelona and Emery is a known huge admirer. There will be a lot of random Barcelona links purely because of Alemany but it feels this one has genuine legs and makes sense. Torres would be true marquee signing and whilst the poor form at Barcelona may raise eyebrows at 23 would provide the opportunity to truly build around a star player similar to JG.

Pretty much confirms Carlos will only be coming in for Konsa. I know many thought that anyway but he has had the majority of his success LCB despite being right footed to accommodate Kounde at Sevilla (who is statistically very similar to Konsa...)

I'm a big Konsa fan but would like to see how Carlos fares under Unai, Konsa seems a bit uncomfortable in the high line and has been caught out a couple of times. Diego is very rapid and used to play high lines at Sevilla.

Also teams have clocked on our build up to only press Mings to let Konsa have the ball, he's been getting better with it but Carlos in possession is something that I think Villa fans underrate. Don't imagine we see him this season but can see Carlos and Mings in the not so distant future.

His passing is coming on leaps and bounds, whilst the majority of the build-up still goes through Mings, I noticed Ezri increasingly splitting lines through the middle to find Ramsey/Buendia.

This was my biggest criticism of Konsa over the years not being brave enough on the ball so great to see him slowly unearth the passing he was renowned for at Brentford / England u21s.

He played at right back in the BCD friendly vs Bristol to accommodate Carlos as we all anticipated. I know he did well in the lockdown restart season playing there but I do hope he doesn't get caught out playing slightly higher up (which is the one area he has struggled under Unai from CB). Will be interesting to see and could save us a pretty penny if he works out there.

41 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

The box shape when we have the ball, our sort of default, is like the below:

---------------------------------xxxxx----------------------------

xxxxx------------xxxxx---------xxxxx--------------xxxxx

---------------xxxxx----xxxxx------------------

------------xxxxx------------xxxxx-------------

---------------xxxxx----xxxxx------------------

 

I agree with the above would add the pivot to the back 4 as what seems to be our base, all constant positions in the variants of the 4-4-2, 6-2-2 and 4-2-2-2.

I think with the roles of the 4 shifting roles, looking back at our games under UE and what he tried at Villareal, he seems to plug and play these parts with a few different roles that he reacts to the specific opposition game.

The archetypes I've picked up on some far

Number 10 out wide:  Buendia, similar to how Pino was utilised, we could have Coutinho here but does require a discipline and physicality alongside playmaking that there is question marks over for PC. 

Pacey direct wide option: Ramsey, Bailey, like Chukwueze at Villareal. Even though we haven't seen Bailey there yet I can see the role being a better fit. Deulofeu or Sarr would give us cover here.

Bustling CM wide option: McGinn, a la Capoue at Villareal. Rumours of Rodrigo De Paul would put him in this category as a McGinn upgrade given his recent repurposing for that role at the WC.

Emery can play any combination of the above in the wide roles, even two of the same.

I think the pacey direct options are so key to our playstyle so we certainly need an addition here. We could also do with another technically capable wider play who can tuck in as a CM.

The front two ones more simply:

Target/Outlet forward: Watkins, Danjuma at Villareal. Can be an outlet with pace as well as strength sets tone on press also.

Second striker: Bailey like Moreno at Villareal. More of a mandate to peel wide and link play/run into space. Deulofeu has played this role during his recent success with Udinese. Archer you'd imagine could play this role too but seems to be going on loan.

Ings doesn't have the physicality for the first and it seems isn't trusted to drift laterally for the latter by UE.

I think a new second striker is a must but longer term some competition/youth outlet forward would also be welcomed.

Deulofeu would cover both second striker and pacey wide option which are really high on the list, Sarr perhaps also as well as both wings.

36 minutes ago, maqroll said:

How would we line up with RDP in the side?

FWIW I don't think we'll get RDP but in the interest of transfer window fun.

After seeing his more dogged WC performances shutting down the wing behind Messi I think he'd be a big technical upgrade on McGinn. I have enjoyed McGinns uptick in performances under UE and think its important for us to have a hustle and bustle wide midfielder in our system but RDP could replicate the same role but with far better ability on the ball.

Say we also do manage to get Deulofeu (which the rumours feel stronger for) and employ him as second striker as he's has done in Udinese

Would leave us with something like this which feels like good quality throughout multiple positions as well as a few more pieces for Emery's puzzle. Would only leave another ball playing CB and fullback successors as positions I'd want to add in summer.

I'm so happy the deal with Arsenal fell through. Luiz feels like one of our most important players this season. We have to remember its not even been half a season of seeing him as a more traditional '8' CM and the improvements have been enormous.

Really takes ownership of the game and seems to weave so many of our good attacking moves together. The partnership with Kamara seems so complimentary and I believe once the chemistry has been built we will likely see even more of the Dougie 'off the leash' offensive wise that we have had flashes of so far.

Starting to become everything we had hoped.

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

we also played defensive teams that played 5 at the back so it was pointless to go a bit more direct as was no space. I would like to see this stat after 8/9 games

Well we barely got above 300 passes in a game last season even against low blocks. We are already above 500 passes per game.

I agree let's see how the numbers look after some of our more difficult fixture but if I was a betting man I'd bet the possession numbers are going to be higher come the end of the season.

Does it mean we will be better for it who knows. What I do know is that most of the teams above us bar a couple of exceptions do play possession football however and whether we continue with SG or not it does make the transition to a better manager perhaps easier.

20 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

They key will come when we want to build possession from the back against teams who press high and put us under pressure. If we can beat the press there is space behind as they've pushed their team high in the press. If we can't beat the press we lose possession close to our goal which is dangerous.

Without Carlos we are at a disadvantage now in building from the back as he and Kamara were key to this. Press resistant and can play passes over the press. 

Agree, would say Kamara is a bit more important for this fortunately but no doubt Carlos gave us security under pressure and is a shame to lose for this style.

If anyone else still in doubt that this is a concerted shift: 

1 hour ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

Not comparable. Both Bournemouth and Everton made it clear they intended to sit deep, they didn’t press high and more or less handed the initiative to Villa. Few games will be like that.

I agree its two fixtures that make those numbers look most likely better than they are. Purely on the eye test (no stats to back up) I felt we had lion share of possession in all of our pre season games including high pressing Rennes and Utd.

We only recorded more than 50% possession on two occasions last season, so we have already matched that. Lets keep an eye on this stat as the season develops, my theory is over the 38 game run our possession will be notably higher than previous seasons.

We've moved from an average possession of 46% both last season as well as 44% the season before.

So far our possession stats were 66% vs Bournemouth and 58% vs Everton.

It is of course early in the season and the nature of these games could bias the possession favourably to us, but for me there is a concerted effort to make us a possession based side starting this season as Gerrard as mentioned. I have reservations on SG just like many but I do firmly believe this change is necessary to take us to the next level.

We will have periods of 'stale' possession as we make this change, I think Arteta's Arsenal were a great example who had large periods of failing to break down teams with the ball but over time slowly worked in a cutting edge. Seemingly possession based football is built as safety first which then creative risks and worked in later.

5 hours ago, est1874 said:

The amount of disrespect for Ezri on here lately, particularly in the Mings thread (quelle surprise), has been shocking. People have unbelievably short memories. I recall a lot of imperious performances from him before his dip in form where people were talking about England call-ups and incensed when he didn't get one. Fast forward a year and it's "Oh he was never as good as Mings, we can't expect him to step it up after his injury either, he's got to fourth choice" etc.

FWIW I don't think we've seen Ezri's ceiling yet, he is still very young for a centre-half and I think his dip in form and injury will stand to him, in terms of experience. I may be proven wrong, but expect he'll push on this season and claim/earn that first team spot alongside Carlos.

Couldn't agree more. I think once we can be sure of Ezri's fitness he'll be nailed on next to Carlos and I'm really looking forward to seeing the partnership.

Konsa's ball playing ability has regressed massively since joining Villa but funnily enough he was famed for his progressive play both for Brentford and England U-21s prior to joining us. In the Rennes game I felt I was starting to see Konsa become a bit more comfortable with his possession surrounded by Carlos and Kamara etc.

I think we can replicate the Carlos and Kounde partnership with Konsa - Ezri's progressive runs emulating Kounde's style is something I expect we're going to see a lot more of this season.

On 02/08/2022 at 22:34, ZL- said:

Would like another CM but feel despite the Carney exit and fee gained I still don't think its quite enough for another given the mandate on the bloated squad unless we see Sanson guy but noises are Gerrard fancies him in the team all of a sudden.

If we're to play 4-3-3 throughout the season we're light on widemen. We could be shifting Trez, El Ghazi and Traore all in one window. We don't have a natural back up to Coutinho at LW, a more classic winger in similar profile to Bailey could be preferable so we can continue to play that formation even if Bailey gets injured. 

Martin Terrier who played LW for Rennes vs us the other day is my shout, he is a big talent who is a rapid LW who can be clinical in front of goal.

 

Another thought on Terrier is he would add to burgeoning French contingent of Digne, Kamara and Sanson. It's clear when squad building that recruiting in language/cultural groups eases adaptation as we've seen with our South Americans!

2 hours ago, HalfTimePost said:

I know we want a bit of a reaction and to sign another mid but we can't forget Carney was shoehorned in a bit last season to push him on and keep him happy as possible. He didn't really ever need to be included or make the most of his opportunities.

Ramsey/Sanson.           McGinn/Luiz

        Kamara/Iroegbunam/Nakamba

Nakamba needs to go regardless now.

With Luiz's contract situation, we can then probably sign a player. If Luiz signs a deal then we probably need to sell Sanson before signing another.

A 6/8 Hybrid so Iroegbunam and Ramsey can both still be assured good minutes.

But i do think we'll need to see atleast one more out before we sign someone.

Maybe Otavio if we sell Traore? He could cover Buendia and CM.

Would like another CM but feel despite the Carney exit and fee gained I still don't think its quite enough for another given the mandate on the bloated squad unless we see Sanson guy but noises are Gerrard fancies him in the team all of a sudden.

If we're to play 4-3-3 throughout the season we're light on widemen. We could be shifting Trez, El Ghazi and Traore all in one window. We don't have a natural back up to Coutinho at LW, a more classic winger in similar profile to Bailey could be preferable so we can continue to play that formation even if Bailey gets injured. 

Martin Terrier who played LW for Rennes vs us the other day is my shout, he is a big talent who is a rapid LW who can be clinical in front of goal.