Stinglikeabee

August 7, 2019

Some interesting comments on here. Someone suggested that the clubs wouldn't release information about bids to the media. Probably not, but I bet the agent has, in order to force the move through. It's rumoured that Said wants a move to the PL, and understands that the price has to be right. Obviously, Brentford can't put on a ridiculous valuation, or we'd not move players on, and constantly have players go on strike. However, agents are involved, and therefore putting Brentford under pressure to sell, but also putting pressure on Villa to buy (after all, agents get a percentage of the fee and the wages in usual cases). It's also a message to other clubs that there might be a deal to be had.

Overall, I hope Said moves on. Undoubtedly a ridiculous talent, and in his first season in English football, he scores 11 goals and gets 15 assists. That's unreal for a young foreign player in my opinion, who had to adjust to the league, and probably took around 3 months to do so. However, it's not just that, it's the fact that he does the most outrageous moves to create space that are well-timed and not just for show, that sets him apart. As someone has mentioned, Bees fans rate him more highly than Jota...…..by a country effin mile. Think Mahrez, and you'll come pretty close. I'd like to see him go to Villa, as he knows Dean Smith, and I think it'd be better for his career at this stage. I think that he's worth the £20 million because you'll end up selling him for double that, at least, within 2 seasons.

His head's gone now, so Said needs to move away from Brentford. Gutted we had him for only one season, but he deserves Premier League football.

Best of luck for the season. Glad you guys stuck it out with Dean Smith, despite a few rumblings last season. He's a great bloke and right for your club at this stage.

October 13, 2018

7 hours ago, Lord Willard said:

Our fitness will improve by retaining possession and not having to chase every game

Dean Smith likes his teams to press high to force mistakes or force the opposition long. Therefore he requires a fitness level within his team to be exceptionally high.

October 13, 2018

8 hours ago, AshVilla said:

What is Thomas Frank like.

Is there any chance of us getting him as well do you think is he close to Dean Smith?

Also is there any sports science people and coaches at Brentford which are influential when it comes to analytics and technical training.

I've always been impressed with Brentford's movement on and off the ball along with passing.

I'm afraid there's almost next to no chance of you getting Thomas Frank as he's likely to be the manager at Brentford. That was always part of the succession and continuity planning at Brentford. Richard was brought in as an assistant coach but was Dean's man. Thomas was brought in but as Brentford's man.

Obviously there are a large number of coaches and people at Brentford who might want to move on to Villa at some stage in their careers. But I think you're alluding to whether the key players might move to Villa?

My understanding is that there are only a few people who fully understand the systems, as people have been brought in to perform a role within our structure, but not given access to the entire structure. Our owner is obviously secretive over what he has developed over the years, and the two DoF's are Phil Giles (who worked with him at the owners betting company) and Rasmus Ankersen, who is the chairman of FC Midtjylland. The owner of FC Midtjylland......? Our owner, Matthew Benham. Getting them to move to another club will be very difficult in my opinion. There's the technical director, Robert Rowan, who is probably the top person in terms of transferability, but if he was to move, he brings knowledge and insight, but not the actual system.

The system took years to implement properly, and is locked down in terms of confidentiality because it's the ONLY way that a club with, consistently, the third lowest wage budget in the division, can dream of competing at a higher level. Benham has been involved at the club since 2010 but started to implement his systems from 2013 when he took over the club. The key person to the entire system at Brentford is.....our owner. He wanted to see a blueprint of turning Brentford into an exciting football team (so people like Warnock would never ever be considered for the job at Brentford) but also a team that wasn't content to just exist. How do you that when there's no money to compete against the bigger clubs? Over 5 years of planning and implementation of the Brentford system.

October 12, 2018

1 hour ago, villan_007 said:

Got to be honest fella, your post doesn't fill me with confidence. It seems deep down you're more than happy for him to leave.

Hopefully he has improved again from the lessons he has learnt which he seems to have done everywhere he's been.

I'm still a little unsure on him to be honest. Having said that it will be nice to not have to sit and watch hit and hope football every week.

I'm happy for him to leave because I believe in the system that we have at Brentford. I'm gutted he left because he's a good coach and as I said, he was a very large cog in the machine we have. I appreciate I've undermined his influence a little, but the last major move for a manager where we provided complete continuity was when Rosler left, Warburton took over from within the club, and we went on to achieve promotion out of League One. Rosler, frankly, achieved little else. So my gut feeling is that as good as Dean was for us, he had his flaws and potentially underachieved with us a little. Only time will tell if I'm right, and honestly speaking, I wish him well (I can't say that for a lot of managers who've managed Brentford). If he has, as you say, learnt from his experiences, then there's no reason why he can't be successful at Villa. But I doubt managing Villa is anything managing Brentford. He'll need to adapt quickly, get the dressing room behind him and coach his methods into the players. You have the squad to do it, that's for sure, but he's got a massive task ahead of him. The quicker he gets what he's coached into Brentford at Villa, then seeing as we're consistently in the top 3 clubs for possession, chances created, shots on goal, then hopefully you guys will give him a chance to get his teeth into the job, accept that you're not necessarily going to get promotion this season, but watch fluid football that sees you dominate both home and away. One thing I'll guarantee you, is that he'll work his nuts off trying to achieve that for you. Hopefully our potential new manager will continue the good work and improve on what's been happening for the past couple of seasons.

What's been really nice is that you guys seem actually reasonably informed about us, or at least, not dismissive of what we've achieved. That's quite refreshing after a Villa fan tweeted, a couple of seasons ago, how tinpot and Sunday League we were, and how he'd stop supporting Villa if ever a club our size ever beat you.

Best wishes

October 12, 2018

Another decent man for Dean. His departure was inevitable. We employed two assistant coaches to Dean. One was his man and the other was a club assistant coach. Richard O'Kelly is pretty much everything Dean isn't. Good combination for you.

October 12, 2018

31 minutes ago, A'Villan said:

@Stinglikeabee Welcome, and thanks for your post. Insightful.

I'd like to pick your brain to better gauge the history and what we might expect here.

While perfectly understandable and relatable to have such expectations, is it possible that hope has persuaded judgement and overlooked actual ability or merits in regard to obtaining a top 6 finish?

I do not watch Brentford play, so don't take this as me insinuating that I believe playoffs to be beyond your club. I am genuinely asking the question as I know from being a fan of this club, that the contrast between what is expected and what eventuates can be both disappointing and even confusing at times.

This is a competition, and margins are fine, even a club like Villa, with the playing personnel we have at our disposal, can find ourselves on the wrong end of results. All too easily.

Coming from the position of ignorance that I do regarding Brentford, I would of thought that the system and coaching that you employ be the cause of any promotion chances above the playing personnel at your disposal. I take it from your view I am mistaken in thinking that?

Saying that the football was aesthetically pleasing would suggest that management (Smith absolutely included in my view) had done a good job of integrating both methodology and personnel. The explanation for the poor results is literally a multi-million dollar question, isn't it? I would appreciate you expanding on what your understanding of what caused your team to forfeit the points that should've been achieved.

For us, it was quite clearly a lack of adaptability and appropriate preparation from Bruce. We had players of elite calibre for the division throughout our squad, some of whom would not even make the match day squad such was our depth. We were so desperately reliant on the superiority of individual skills and bravado. Apparently we spent more than Brentford had in their entire 127 year history the season before, and we have only continued to add to that.

Edens (one of our owners) at another sports club he owns, appointed a coach of only one years experience. This coach took that club from the worst ever record and a lowly ladder position to the playoffs in one full season in charge. He was then afforded 4 years from memory to push on and take things to the next level. So I am not as concerned for Smith as you are. Should he show the capability to achieve promotion within the timeframe the club can afford he will be backed.

My word, does he have the playing personnel at his disposal. Even our defense, which has been penetrated with ease time and again this season, boasts three players of premier league experience. As far as personnel goes that is our weak point. However our true fragility can be found in a lack of coordination as a unit. If Smith can remedy this I think he might enjoy some success with Villa. From what you have written in stating that the football was easy to watch, he can, as long as players cooperate and commit to his methods.

I understand that the data analytics you employ are able to identify players who are playing to a similar or higher standard currently possessed by your club but are from countries where the fee they command make them worthy investments for Brentford. That's the kind of ingenuity that will take you places from a financial and business perspective as well as adding talent to the footballing side of the club. Win-win really. Though I don't see how that negates the work of the head coach in assembling and preparing his team to play an effective brand of football. If anything the two are complementary and both testament to your club being on track to grow in performance and therefore stature. Like you say the expectation is playoffs and a chance at your first ever Premier League campaign.

How do these analytics assist Smith in his tactical approach? I would be very keen to understand this better. Do they really identify anything that the naked eye might not through observation? I imagine it might give concrete feedback on the tendencies of the opposition in a number of ways. But will Smith really be left at such a disadvantage without it?

Bit of an essay there for you, so thanks if you've taken the time to read through all that.

Lol. Pretty much as long as my post.

I'll try to answer in the best way possible.

Brentford believe that has we invested in our fragile squad in January 2015, we might have gone on to get promotion. It was rejected by Warburton (we had a different setup at that time) and he and our owner fell out. Our squad was running on empty by the time we played Middlesbrough and we lost in the play-offs, having played great football with a small squad.

The strategy was to improve on the entire squad and keep Brentford playing attractive football in the hope that we might reach similar levels. The first season after the play-offs, we were far away from the standards required, the second season also, but last season, we had assembled the strongest squad we had ever seen coupled with the brand of football we were playing, expectations had risen. It is my opinion that we failed to make the most of that squad, as having watched Championship football for the last few years, I think I can recognise a true challenger and the ones that won't. Last season, Brentford should have challenged. This season, I'm going to be really irritated if we don't make the play-offs. Our methods, systems, analytics, scouting methods, mean that we can compete on a much more level playing field than if we hadn't employed such methods. Our squad and sales of players in the last few seasons speak for themselves. We have, on merit, established a reputation for being a quality footballing side, recruiting young athletic players who are comfortable on the ball (as recently recognised by Bielsa who sung our praises last week), and whilst we lack a bit of experience to challenge for automatic spots, I think we're good for play-offs. All this and we're constantly rebuilding our squad, improving it, whilst players depart. Pretty amazing in my opinion, as most clubs our size lose players and crumble.

I don't doubt for a second that Dean, having been a cog in the Brentford machine, was rather a large cog. I'm not disputing many of the good things he did for us. The footballing philosophy partly comes from the top though. It's instilled into the B team and, when we had an academy, all other age groups. That's why we've been able to promote players from within and invest in young players who might not get a chance in bigger clubs. Dean then coaches the team but obviously has a huge influence on daily and matchday matters as he's the one ultimately responsible. He's renowned for bringing the young players through, inspiring confidence in them, but he's not so renowned for his overall setup of the team for teams that "have figured us out". There seems to be a distinct lack of a plan B if our footballing style doesn't work as effectively, and I'd say that we struggle to grind results out. Put it this way, we don't tend to win ugly. And that's what costs us points.

In some ways, with Villa being a different setup with a squad that has experience at a higher level, that might work to his advantage. Our squad deficiencies are different to yours, and let's see how Dean sets up your team to suit his style. As I said, he had a pretty good squad when he first came to us, not as good as now, but I was surprised that despite the reputation that he had built at Walsall, we were playing direct football for most of the first year he was with us.

With regards to our scouting, recruitment and analytics. It's massively overlooked by our DoF's, not the coaches. The head coach gives them a brief and they regularly discuss players, but the DoF's then draw up a shortlist and then go for the players. In fact, a number of our signings have remarked at how impressed that we had been tracking them for years. We recruit young British players, and young Europeans. We offer young promising players something that a lot of bigger clubs cannot, and that's regular first team football, playing a style of football that we already know suits them. On negotiating with players, they are shown a presentation of themselves and hope they fit into the Brentford way, where they are told things about their game that they hadn't realised themselves. We also offer them no restrictions in movement should we get the right offer for them, and therefore we tend to sign some extremely promising players. And that's amazing thing. Our owner's very secretive analytics, coupled with an extensive scouting network that covers every league in Europe, means that we see things like, for example, how a winger performs in front of large crowds, under pressure against two defenders, in a team that tends to dominate possession, against a left footed defender who is short and quick, in the "danger" area of the wing. Stats like these are compiled and analysed to demonstrate consistencies within players, how that fits in with our style of football, and areas of improvement that require coaching. There's actually a lot more than that, including mental attributes, but that's about as much information as us fans can work out!

So, why is this relevant to your question? Well, it's a unique system that Villa doesn't have. Smith knew that he was getting what he asked for and the real challenges have been getting players to adjust to language, if they're foreign, so that they can truly understand the style.

The other aspect that I need to clarify for you as best as I can, is the matchday analytics. As our owner has based his entire fortune on analytics in sport, it's employed on matchdays to feedback information to the bench so they can make informed decisions from different viewpoints. Truthfully, bring on the bench means you only see one perspective of the game. From different angles and much higher up positions, is possible to see other things. That data is collected and provided to the coaching team at half time so that they can decide whether to make any changes. Obviously it's all used post match too.

That said, the way I've talked it up makes it sound like we ought to be in the Premier League by now. But we're a club with a ground capacity of 12,000, no corporate facilities, and we still lose money every week. Our losses are partly negated by our profit we make from player sales and from owner investment to fund our losses.

Anyway, hope that answers some of your questions.

October 12, 2018

2 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

I'm of the opinion that if you play anything resembling great looking football with this squad, the rest should take care of itself. Smith might have limitations that might manifest later down the road, but I think he has what it takes to get this beast of a squad playing good football and winning games, and that's all we need at this point in time.

Watching Bruce ball does appear to have scarred you lot!!!

October 11, 2018

Wotcha all. Brentford fan here. Quite happy to see Dean get his dream move. He did a decent job at Brentford but the feeling is that he didn't really quite achieve as much as he could have, but who knows?

Just a potted history but Smith came into Brentford at a time when we were happy with Lee Carsley as our caretaker, who took over from a disaster of a Dutch manager. What struck me was that Smith didn't really do anything with the team and a run of 10 defeats in 13 games in the league was followed by a run of 7 wins in 9 to convince the fans that he had the ability to take us into his full first season.

His next season was interesting because of our inconsistency. I remember clearly that our style of football wasn't all that (inconsistent) and we had a streaky patch where a fair few fans were calling for his head because we felt our squad was underachieving. However, a patient board and his ability to turn results around saw form improve and we finished the season quite strongly to finish midtable. It was at the end of this particular season when we started to play some really attractive football and therefore convinced Brentford fans, after 18 months, that his honeymoon period was over.

Into last season and the style of football had carried on from the end of the previous season and we looked great on the eye but the results were appalling. However, it was only a matter of time before results would pick up and they did. The football was outstanding at times, with a squad that we felt should be in the playoffs. But, our inability to counter most of the big clubs, sloppiness, concession of late goals, meant that we kept dropping points far too often and we finished outside the playoff places. Fans glossed over it by saying how close we were and the unfortunate start to the season.

Into this season, and we've played some great football again. Easy on the eye but has flaws. It requires unbelievable fitness levels and if we're only slightly off our game, we can look really ordinary. We also have struggled against teams who press us high for the entire game. Dean Smith just didn't seem to have an idea on how to counter this, as for me, the signs were there last season. Teams knew that if they could force mistakes against us high up the pitch, we looked very vulnerable.

So, whilst our football is easy on the eye, whilst Dean Smith is undoubtedly a great man manager, I'm concerned for him at Villa. He won't have or is unlikely to have the same level of patience shown. It took over 14 months for our team to start showing the attractive football that we play. And our recruitment policy has always been to sign players who are comfortable on the ball. We had a few streaks of poor results that put him under pressure, but against pretty awful teams.

Dean Smith never seemed to get a grip on teams that could press us for 90 minutes and a lot of Brentford fans will argue that the improvement in our style of football coincided with the appointment of ex-Brondby manager, Thomas Frank, who is tipped to be the new Brentford manager.

Brentford fans also talk of him being a cog in the machine. He benefits from a scouting system that has come about from our owner and his two DoF's who are his people. He benefits from a large number of other coaches who work on and develop many areas of our game, and he benefits from a unique analytical system where we have a number of analysts feeding information to the bench that enables him to make better informed decisions. This analytical system is also employed as part of our scouting system that enables us to assess players on every aspect of their game.

For all these points made, Brentford fans pretty much believe that we're in a great position to get in a manager that might make better use of our squad. Had Dean Smith stayed and failed to get us into the playoffs this season, he would seriously have underachieved. And the feeling is, like we sell players at the top of their value, we've let Dean Smith go at the top of his.

Villa is a totally different animal to Brentford. Different expectations, different pressure, different squad with bigger egos, and my fear is that Brentford was the perfect fit for him and Villa will be a step too far. I hope not, because he's an incredibly genuine person, and he's incredibly likeable in person. Please give him time and I'm sure that for all the negatives/concerns I've mentioned, he will have gained more experience during his tenure at Brentford, so everything I've said might become totally irrelevant.

It's also interesting to note that Brentford fans don't begrudge him his dream move. He leaves on excellent terms and with our best wishes.

P.S. any questions, I'll happily try to answer them. Obviously it's a busy forum so I'll answer what I can when I can.

October 11, 2018

Evening all. Just wanted to add a few words about Dean Smith's move to Villa. Might be able to show some insights, Brentford fans' reactions, and so on.

Cheers

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