hanxamillion

Surprised to see so many available managed to get a couple in the lower Holte just after 5pm. I’m sure the’ll be plenty snapped up over the weekend. The last two times iv wanted tickets I’ve had to go upper trinity. 

Looks like it will be sold out by the end of today 

Went down to this one as never been to upton park before and won't get the chance once the £200 million alterations to the Olympic stadium have enabled them to move.

It's a bit of cliche really but It thought the home support was awful. A pocket of 'vociferous' fans either side of the away end who mostly seemed to want to taunt or barrack the away fans most of the match and not really back there own team  better atmosphere coming from one of the pubs by the side of the ground - expensive way to release stress I'd say ?!. 

I always expect us to beat west ham and usually disappointed when we don't. As they played with six in midfield perhaps the way the match panned out realistically is how you may expect it to have in reality. Guzan dealt very well with the endless crosses that were sent over to the're missing centre forward, Baker and Vlaar  mopped up the rest competently.

Pleased to see Lowton back in the side and after a nervy first half I thought he did ok, Most of the midfield ( and even Bacuna) looked like rabbits in the headlights when they had the ball and it really highlighted the missing contribution from Delph today - far too many misplaced passes. Sylla was no exception surprisingly as I think we've all been calling for him to get more game time ( not just for the song eh ?) however he did a little better in the second half too.

Won't dwell on Clark's performance just to say that any recent confidence I had developed in him being in the side evaporated yesterday. Hurry back Okora is all I will add to the defensive issues. Wiemann ran around a lot and seemed to get shoved off the ball too easily for me a lot of the time - don't think Benteke or even Gabby would have been felled the time he burst though in the first half.He later got injured so missed his chance to put the ever mounting number of chances he's had to score to be addressed positively.

Had two great chances in the second half and i'm sure it won't be too long before Benteke hits the goal trail again, A bit too much long ball up to him for me but as I said with 6 in midfield we were never going to play it through them too many times.They did beat spurs 0 3 recently after all.

It has stopped the rot of a run too many defeats and a ANOTHER clean sheet and a point more than we got from there last year - it's two less on west ham's tally too.

On reflection not a bad result from another frustrating overall performance, don't think either team really deserved to win we have quiet a few 'winnable' games coming up - over to you Paul Lambert.

I think the physical and mental energy spent over the three games took it's toll both on the first half performance and the overall result. Perhaps with a fresh Sylla in the middle instead of Bacuna ( who I thought was no worse than anyone else) and either Tonev or Helenius in for Wiemann we may have got a few more passes together and made a goal happen.

If the consensus is that we have just played three of the top 6 you really wouldn't be able to say we didn't match any of them all over the pitch.

I think Vlarr's strength and Okora's pace we have a much improved central defense.

Bring on the toon. 

 

I cannot see Lambert changing our 4 3 3 for this, didn't we go 4 2 4 at old trafford recently ? On saturday's form I would drop Weimann for clark and bring in okora

 

 

alongside vlarr to go 4 4 2 but am 100 % behind whatever he see's fit to try. 

 

Although we have had some thrashings of late we don't have a bad record against them with an entertaining 4 4 draw not so long ago and under mcliesh did we not

 

win 1 3 ?

 

Would really love to get a result here and make up for the 8 0 from last year - although the score didn't flatter chelski that much ! Guzan seems to command his goal

 

well and let's hope our defense is ready for a battle  !!! bring it on

Confused by this?! You'd drop Weimann and play Clark where exactly?! Especially as you're bringing in okora (Okore) alongside Vlaar?! Anyway same team that played the majority of Saturday for me and I fancy 2-2

 

As stated in the 4 4 2 ie gabby and benteke up top clark westwood delph kea in midfield luna vlaar okore lowton defense i fancy a 1 - 2 

I cannot see Lambert changing our 4 3 3 for this, didn't we go 4 2 4 at old trafford recently ? On saturday's form I would drop Weimann for clark and bring in okora

alongside vlarr to go 4 4 2 but am 100 % behind whatever he see's fit to try. 

Although we have had some thrashings of late we don't have a bad record against them with an entertaining 4 4 draw not so long ago and under mcliesh did we not

win 1 3 ?

Would really love to get a result here and make up for the 8 0 from last year - although the score didn't flatter chelski that much ! Guzan seems to command his goal

well and let's hope our defense is ready for a battle  !!! bring it on 

I think Okora will be picked along side Vlaar. KEA , Delph and Westwood will be the choice in midfield. 

Guzan

Lowton Vlaar Okora Luna

Delph Westwood KEA

Wiemann Benteke Agbonlahor

Midfield is going to be interesting.

 

Westwood would be my first choice. Think he's very important to us, like Carrick he's very consistent, keeps the game calm and is generally great at keeping possession. He is essentially our Petrov replacement, except he isn't as likely to chip in with a goal but his passing play is more attack minded, where as Stan could drive me mental with his consistent backwards passing.

 

However, past Westwood I don't know where to go. Part of that is because when you play a 4-2-3-1 you generally expect the '2' to have defined roles, be it a DM, The mythical Box-to-Box or a playmaker. The thing is none of our midfielders are really Great at those defined roles, Westwood included as he's not going to open up many defences with his passing (Norwich aside).

 

Delph and Sylla can both attack a bit, defend a bit and pass a bit. They can do it all but not really any of it brilliantly. If one of them kicks on I can see them being a bit like a lightweight Yaya Toure or a poor mans Moussa Sissokho. But similarly they could have a bit of a time where they dont really do much of anything in midfield.

 

Bacuna is a bit of an unknown quantity and its really hard to tell if Gardner can become the Claret and Blue Gerrard after his injury set backs. I dont rate KEA at all.

 

Guess my point is, after Westwood, despite having more squad depth we dont have any stand-out midfielders who we can rely on to go and do something - even just one defined job/role - great. Hopefully one of those 4/5 players can become that this season. If just one of them maximises their potential this season and we get a great AM in we'll be looking like a real force imo.

The thing is with the luxury of having 3 up front we cannot afford too many midfielders getting caught further up field, especially if Lowton and Luna rome forward up the wings.

The three in the middle have to anchor, battle and protect our vulnerable defense. Delph, Sylla and Westwood will do this with offensive options like Tonev Bacuna KEA coming on to

help later in the game if we need goals to change the result..Against the top teams we will need the front three tracking back from time to time to help out anyway.

This is why Bent has lost his place. ( along with the extra 6 mill we may have to pay sunderland for performances ).

I think Clark could be considered in the team in front of Bennet but behind Luna, Okora, Baker, Vlaar, Lowton and maybe Bacuna at a push as a defender. 

Midfield as a last resort behind quite a few decent ones we have in there. 

 

 

Our backup worries me

 

None of the players mentioned are ready for the premier league (you missed Tonev and N'Zogbia, the latter I don't rate)

 

Perhaps for the last 10 or 15 mins they would be OK, but certainly not for 90 mins every week.

 

So if either CB, GA or AW get injured, I suspect we may struggle a little

 

 

I realize that the top of the league is a more difficult situation than it was 30 odd years ago but then our back up was  David Geddis alone up top.

 

Tonev is an attacking midfielder although he might be called on for forward duties if injuries force it to happen. Nzogbia is not in the plans at present so omitted him from the scenario.

 

Anyhow we have plenty of attacking midfielders that could support a forward two if required.

 

Since Delph and Sylla established there places either side of Westwood the goals against improved considerably. With forward minded wide defenders who can support the midfield

 

and attack we have a great shape and fluidity. 

 

AW  and Gabby have the energy to track back when needed and give us some width when the midfield pushes forward.

 

 

I'm not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing!

 

To summarise - I don't think our backup players are good enough (yet). If one of the three lads get injured, I know we have players who can come in, I just don't think they are up to the standards required. I'm sure lots of people will disagree and I hope I'm wrong

 

I am not disagreeing with the comment that you don't think the back up is that good. BUT my point is the front THREE ( not two or one as we have had in the last say 20 years) is

VERY GOOD. Geddis was the only back up in the title winning season and with some decent new midfielders and additional defenders this time around, the whole team is a good

step up from last season. If one of these three got injured i'm sure the alternatives included with using the other two we can still carry a threat.

I'm sure we will have to be satisfied with a draw from time to time.

I can really see some great goal - fests coming this season, with a stronger defense and better options in midfield hopefully we will shore up the goals against column. The forward

threat this year compares well with the classes of '77 and '80. I love the lack of media attention too which will i'm sure adds more gravity to some of the back page headlines the'll

begrudgingly have to produce.

I think the spurs match would be my preferred choice for a landslide result.

I've just had a look and can confirm we will be finishing at Spurs 

Guard of honor for us there I understand 

Our backup worries me

 

None of the players mentioned are ready for the premier league (you missed Tonev and N'Zogbia, the latter I don't rate)

 

Perhaps for the last 10 or 15 mins they would be OK, but certainly not for 90 mins every week.

 

So if either CB, GA or AW get injured, I suspect we may struggle a little

I realize that the top of the league is a more difficult situation than it was 30 odd years ago but then our back up was  David Geddis alone up top.

Tonev is an attacking midfielder although he might be called on for forward duties if injuries force it to happen. Nzogbia is not in the plans at present so omitted him from the scenario.

Anyhow we have plenty of attacking midfielders that could support a forward two if required.

Since Delph and Sylla established there places either side of Westwood the goals against improved considerably. With forward minded wide defenders who can support the midfield

and attack we have a great shape and fluidity. 

AW  and Gabby have the energy to track back when needed and give us some width when the midfield pushes forward.

That's Clark stepping into midfield from 3rd CB. The false-9 is like the opposite, steps into midfield from striker. The transition areas between midfield and attack and defence and midfield are very important, Helenius is one of those transition players, Clark is another.

Given the season we had last year I think we need a dedicated midfield of 3 with delph westy and sylla as the defensive model, exchange one or two with bacuna / tonev / el hamadhi or even helenius for a more offensive approach perhaps clark as the extra defensive option.

A dedicated attack with gabby, benteke and weimann plan 'a' with possibly bowry / helenuis as a back up or last throw of the dice. 

My feelings of optimism are gathering momentum each time I see further progress from our pre- season warm up matches.  

Would it be a bit premature to start comparing our present front three with some illustrious names from the past.

Given that last season our front  three Netted 47 in total 

 Agbonlahor (12) Benteke (23) Weimann (12)  if we can build on that and get some from around the rest of the team we could well be going places this year.

We seem to be a little under the radar for the media too given our struggles and heavy defeats from last year. I bet Dicanio will remember his visit to

Villa Park.

How does the potential of these compare to some from yesteryear ?

Going back to the late 70's Deehan, Little and Gray or early 80's Withe , Morley and Shaw ? 

We have some back up too with Helenius, Bowrey, Carruthers and Greilish 

Bring it on.

At premier league level he has been caught out / found wanting at times last season. I still think there could be a good premier league player there in him, Lambert clearly feels the same as he has sanctioned a new contract. 

I'm sure given support and training in the area's of weakness he and others within the team will improve further, and with the stronger squad last year's roller coaster season will stand us in good stead for the next one.

Good to see Okora with a bit of pace and decent ball control in the second half. With Bacuna's defensive capabilities we may now at last have reasonable cover across the whole of the defense -  there could well be some formation juggling but certainly Okora is making a claim on a regular place next to Vlaar or Baker ?.

Still could do with another CD a la McGrath imo but they don't come along tooo often i suppose. 

Obviously I meant July.

 

If you wanted a discussion about our best eleven for the season, you shouldn't have named it like you did. There was nothing in the title or the first post suggesting this was a "best eleven" thread, the only reference was to the date of the first game.

 

My point was that if you'd noticed sooner, it could have been renamed and moved back to the VillaTalk forum. If you start a thread and then don't come back for 12 days then it might not work out how you expected.

I obviously intended the post to be about prevailing opinions at THAT TIME of  the 'starting 11' for the season start date, that is why I thought the title I chose was the most appropriate and named it accordingly. 

Nothing to do with the best 11 which would surely be another debate depending on form / rotation and tactics, along with the assumption mentioned in the opening line of the first post that all current players are available. i.e not been sold, banned or injured.

Once the pre-season friendlies had taken place and the new signings are given chance to make an impression, the team to start specifically against Arsenal could be entirely different and not at all relevant to that particular thread until a few days before kick off ?

Never mind eh 

 

Not sure why this post has been moved to the arsenal fixture. The intention was for a debate / post about our best Starting eleven for the forthcoming

 

SEASON commencing on 17th August.  

 

There's certainly not much interaction on it ???

We don't yet have a psychic mods. The thread was fairly unambiguously titled and so was moved. A link to it is still present in the main forum. It was moved on the 21st August, how much interaction did you expect if you haven't checked in all that time?

 

My comment was not a reflection of how often I had looked at the thread, more a subsequent reaction to the lack of interaction, and therefore raising the point that as the post had been moved - in spite of having a clear title ' starting 11 for 17th august' that this could be the reason ?

To clarify my thought, I feel that because it has been moved the interaction is probably lower than it perhaps would have been.

I take it the suggested post move for the 21st august is not actually a psychic prediction but a mistake on your part ?

Does e/w get you top 5 ?

No just second at half ....and maybe third place at quarter. will check with the bookies first but it's been a while since I placed a bet on them. Going forward we look very promising

As long as we score 1 more than the other team we'll be just FINE.

well at 2000 to 1 for the title i'm having a tenner each way. nobody fancied us in 1980 / 81 as liverpool were dominating things back then. we'll surprise quite a few methinks 

I think the point is that unlike previous managers Lambert simply tries to pick the best 11 on merit he has no favorites . With a big target up front like Benteke the other attacking

players have to have pace and energy to track back when required or get on to the knock downs. Given our defensive frailty and lightweight midfield Bent never fitted into that formation .Remember Southampton away for example.

I also think the extra 6m we may have had to pay sunderland given a certain amount of full games played had a bearing on the decision to drop him too.

He came in when we needed him, done his best within his skill set and now just wants first team football elsewhere. The 80 k wages is a bit of a burden at the moment but hopefully

someone will realize they need another forward who can find the net........spurs ?    

Not sure why this post has been moved to the arsenal fixture. The intention was for a debate / post about our best Starting eleven for the forthcoming

SEASON commencing on 17th August.  

There's certainly not much interaction on it ???

With Benteke on board, the team building experiences from last season and the new signings ( still need another CB by the way ) we are in as good a position as we have been for years,  The transfer window is hotting up and will feel much happier when it's all over. Hope bale goes to RM karma for spurs.

UTV

Perhaps someone could suggest a form of words to be used on this forum and from the stands when Clark makes one of his frequent monumental cock-ups and gives away a goal. 

 

If pointing out that he makes a lot of cock-ups is now seemingly not acceptable, how should we discuss such events?

I think we are all agreed that Clark has been found wanting too many times last season and with the arrival of Okora, an improving Baker and a fit Vlaar he won't be in the first 11 too often.

With Luna in for Bennett and a much stronger defensive midfield ( Sylla and or Delph with Westwood and Bacuna),  -  the defense and the goals conceded column will be much

improved  and we won't have to be pointing out these events