villal

a Question though , has there ever been concrete proof that it was about the oil ? I don't mean the fact that oil companies have done well out of it and conspiracy theories on the interweb , I mean firm evidence a policy document or a leaked memo or something ?

Well not leaked exactly, but if you read through the PNAC manifesto it's quite plain that ensuring no other empire has rights over the main oil source's was a constant underlying theme.

edit - from PNAC

"The United States has for decades sought to play a more permanent role in Gulf regional security. While the unresolved conflict with Iraq provides the immediate justification, the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein."

Don't forget:

"Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor

Rebuilding America's Defenses is available here as a PDF file 852kb

Is that Megrahi dead yet? Seems like he probably should be seeing as he "only had 3 months to live" back at the start of August.

Yes, last week I think it was.

Nope

Revealed: Lockerbie bomber defies doctors' prediction of death

The health of the Lockerbie bomber has "not deteriorated" since his release from prison three months ago – despite doctors' assessments that he would have died by now, a senior source has told The Sunday Telegraph.

The disclosure will reignite the row over the release of Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al-Megrahi on compassionate grounds despite his conviction for the murder of 270 people when Pan Am flight 103 exploded in mid-air over Lockerbie in 1988.

Megrahi, who is suffering terminal prostate cancer, was sent home to Libya to die after medical experts concluded in a report on July 30 he had just three months left to live. The time span was crucial because only prisoners with three months or less to survive are eligible for release on compassionate grounds

full article here

There should definitely be a choice for "None at all - they are all self obsessed words removed"

Convicted does not always mean guilty

Free does not always mean innocent

There are people in positions of power in this country that have thousands if not millions times more blood on their hands than the 2 mentioned in the OP yet they walk around as free men.

A bit old - from 2004...

Conservative backing for ID cards

The Tories are to back controversial government plans to introduce ID cards.

The shadow cabinet revealed its support ahead of next week's Commons vote on a bill to introduce compulsory ID.

The decision follows a "tough meeting" where some senior Tories argued vociferously against the move, party sources told the BBC.

The bill, which ministers claim will tackle crime, terrorism and illegal immigration, is expected to be opposed by the Liberal Democrats.

'Hold to account'

They have said the scheme is "deeply flawed" and a waste of money.

Sources within the Conservative Party told the BBC Michael Howard has always been in favour of ID cards, and tried to introduce them when he was Home Secretary.

The party has been "agnostic" on the issue until now but had now decided to come off the fence, the Tory source said.

Despite giving their backing to ID cards, the Conservatives insisted they would hold ministers to account over the precise purpose of the scheme.

Privacy?

They said they would also press Labour over whether objectives could be met and whether the Home Office would deliver them.

And they pledged to assess the cost effectiveness of ID cards and whether people's privacy would be properly protected.

"It is important to remember that this bill will take a decade to come into full effect," a spokesman said.

"It will do nothing to solve the immediate problems of rising crime and uncontrolled immigration."

Margins?

Lib Dem home affairs spokesman Mark Oaten said: "This has all the signs of Michael Howard overruling colleagues' concerns over ID cards.

"The Tories should have the courage to try and change public opinion not follow it."

The new chairman of the Bar Council, Guy Mansfield QC warned there was a real risk that people on the "margins of society" would be driven into the hands of extremists.

"What is going to happen to young Asian men when there has been a bomb gone off somewhere? They are going to be stopped. If they haven't [iD cards] they are going to be detained".

The Federal Reserve's balance sheet is so out of whack that the central bank would be shut down if subjected to a conventional audit, Jim Grant, editor of Grant's Interest Rate Observer, told CNBC.

With $45 billion in capital and $2.1 trillion in assets, the central bank would not withstand the scrutiny normally afforded other institutions, Grant said in a live interview.

"If the Fed examiners were set upon the Fed's own documents—unlabeled documents—to pass judgment on the Fed's capacity to survive the difficulties it faces in credit, it would shut this institution down," he said. "The Fed is undercapitalized in a way that Citicorp is undercapitalized."

Grant said he would support legislation currently making its way through Congress calling for an audit of the Fed (Currently 207 Co-sponsors)

Moreover, he criticized the way the Fed has managed the financial crisis, saying the central bank's target rate should not be around zero.

"I think zero is the wrong rate for almost any economy," Grant said, adding the Fed has "embarked on a vast experiment in moral hazard. Interest rates are the traffic signals in a market economy, and everything's green. ... You have to wonder whether these interest rates are the right clearing rate or rather they are the imposition of a central bank."

Amid a disparity between analysts predicting there will be no rate hikes soon and the fed funds futures indicating tightening by the end of the year, Grant said he thinks the Fed indeed will begin raising rates as inflation creeps into the picture.

Fed funds futures have fully priced in as much as a half-point rise in the target rate from its current range of zero to 0.25 percent.

"If the hairs on the back of your neck stand up when there's too much unanimity of opinion, then one begins to worry about this," he said. "The Fed proverbially has been late."

here

far too many voters it seems would rather have sided with the fuhrer back in the 40's and shot their grandparents to death on omaha.

pity really.

Back then the level of corruption in politics wasn't so high and most definitely wasn't as visible

media was restricted totally to what the government wanted you to hear..

No comparison at all really

I do not know how or why she remains in post

Does anyone really think that all this ID card stuff is personally her idea??

IMO - It is an agenda that is being played out using "terrorism" as justification for amongst other things snooping, it is/has happened in the US via the back door in The Real ID Act and more than likely would be banded around by whatever party is in power in the UK regardless of what they say now.

I agree though, she is a worthless word removed

50 people voted for ID cards as a good idea in the poll

Out of interest does anyone have any stats regarding policies that have been put into place by one party only to be overturned by another as they come into power.

I bet its quite a short list.

Personally I cannot see anyone giving up control measures that are already in motion

How about Star Wars episodes 1 - 3 ?

The UK economy has shrunk for the third consecutive quarter, confirming that the country is still in recession.

GDP fell by 1.9% in the three months from January-March 2009, the steepest quarterly fall since 1980 and much worse than the predicted 1.5%.

The UK government is now predicting that the economy will continue to decline through most of 2009, at annual rate of 3.5%, but recover in 2010.

Translates to:

"The Government will allow the banks to continue looting the tax payers until some time in 2010, by which time we should be at rock bottom, from then on the only way is up"

By MATT SMALL, Associated Press Writer – 1 hr 55 mins ago

WASHINGTON – David Kellermann, the acting chief financial officer of mortgage giant Freddie Mac, was found dead at his home Wednesday morning in what police said was an apparent suicide.

Mary Ann Jennings, director of public information for the Fairfax County, Va., Police Department, said Kellermann was found dead in his Reston, Va., home. The 41-year-old Kellermann has been Freddie Mac's chief financial officer since September.

Jennings said that a crime scene crew and homicide detectives were investigating the death, but that there didn't appear to be any sign of foul play.

McLean-based Freddie Mac has been criticized heavily for reckless business practices that some argue contributed to the housing and financial crisis. Freddic Mac is a government-controlled company that owns or guarantees about 13 million home loans. CEO David Moffett resigned last month.

Freddie Mac and sibling company Fannie Mae, which together own or back more than half of the home mortgages in the country, have been hobbled by skyrocketing loan defaults and have received about $60 billion in combined federal aid.

Kellermann was named acting chief financial officer in September 2008, after the resignation of Anthony "Buddy" Piszel, who stepped down after the September 2008 government takeover. The chief financial officer is responsible for the company's financial controls, financial reporting and oversight of the company's budget and financial planning.

Before taking that job, Kellerman served as senior vice president, corporate controller and principal accounting officer. He was with Freddie Mac for more than 16 years.

here

Hmmmm - what did he uncover?

U.S. President Barack Obama Monday asked Congress to back an expansion of an IMF emergency fund by $500 billion in a move designed to expand its reach to big emerging-market nations.

Obama also asked lawmakers to approve a U.S. contribution to the fund to $100 billion, as part of the plan to swell International Monetary Fund reserves agreed at this month’s Group of 20 industrial and developing nations summit in London.

At the G20 summit, “the Germans did not want an EU effort to bail out the banks,” reported the Asia Times. “They wanted the International Monetary Fund (IMF) to bail out a substantial part of the EU financial system instead. The reason was simple: The IMF receives loans from the United States, as well as China and Japan, meaning the Europeans would be joined by others in underwriting the bailout. The United States has signaled it would be willing to contribute $100 billion to the IMF, of which a substantial portion would go to Central Europe. (Of the current loans given by the IMF, roughly 80% have gone to the struggling economies in Central Europe.)”

The president made the request in several letters to Democratic and Republican congressional leaders Monday, pointing out that the fund didn’t require an extra financial outlay from the U.S.

When Washington transfers funds to the IMF under the program, known as an expansion of the New Arrangements to Borrow, or NAB, it would receive interest bearing assets in return, backed up by IMF resources including gold stocks.

“Our proposal to increase U.S. participation in the NAB by up to $100 billion as part of an overall increase of $500 billion was warmly endorsed by the G20 Leaders,” the letters said.

“I am asking for your help to deliver on that commitment by supporting inclusion of the NAB and related IMF proposals in the most timely legislative vehicle that will enable the United States to act quickly,” Obama wrote.

“Rapid progress is essential to the restoration of confidence in the global economy and financial system so that the global economy can emerge from recession to recovery and to sustained growth.

The IMF was the main beneficiary at the Group of 20 London summit where leaders agreed to triple its war chest to $750 billion by adding $500 billion, some of it already pledged.

“Mexico became the first to win approval for the new credit line Friday, gaining access to a record 47 billion dollars,” reported the Economic Times.

“The IMF’s 47-billion-dollar credit line to Mexico was the largest financial arrangement in the 64-year-old institution’s history.”

“Other potential candidates for an IMF credit line are Brazil, Chile, South Korea, the Czech Republic and Singapore,” the Times continued.

“In a letter to U.S. congressional leaders, Obama said the U.S. funding ‘does not represent a budgetary expenditure or any increase in the deficit since it effectively represents an exchange of assets,’” reported Reuters.

Obama made the request in letters to two Democrats: House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid; and Republican House Leader John Boehner and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.

here

Apologies if this has been posted before (on this thread or another) but did anyone catch Daniel Hannan's speech/dig at One Eyed Twunt on 26/03/09.

We need more people like him IMO (of course)

www.ukcolumn.org/

Bank of England, Sterling and Government Treason

Mike Robinson

Apr 14th 2009

...............

:-)

That must be the biggest crock of shit article ever to be posted on any web site.

Not surprising that the British Constitution Group want to lend their name to it

:-)

Saying it's a crock of shit article is to be honest a crock of shit response - you normally give a point by point rebuttal - I'd be interested to know whats wrong with each part (preferably with sources) :winkold:

did we reach the worse of it just after Xmas and now we are coming out of it but will be a very slow process.

I don't think we've seen much yet - IMO it's going to get worse over the next 12-18 months - and don't forget we have the summer of rage upon us (according to the media) that not going to happen if everything is rosy.

After losing 2 friends out there, it is a categorical no from me.

So you'd rather have your friends die in a meaningless war?

Bizarre question :shock:

Let's be honest: you'll never win the lottery.

On the other hand, the chances are pretty good that you'll slave away at some miserable job the rest of your life. That's because you were in all likelihood born into the wrong social class. Let's face it -- you're a member of the working caste. Sorry!

As a result, you don't have the education, upbringing, connections, manners, appearance, and good taste to ever become one of us. In fact, you'd probably need a book the size of the yellow pages to list all the unfair advantages we have over you. That's why we're so relieved to know that you still continue to believe all those silly fairy tales about "justice" and "equal opportunity" in America.

Of course, in a hierarchical social system like ours, there's never been much room at the top to begin with. Besides, it's already occupied by us -- and we like it up here so much that we intend to keep it that way. But at least there's usually someone lower in the social hierarchy you can feel superior to and kick in the teeth once in a while. Even a lowly dishwasher can easily find some poor slob further down in the pecking order to sneer and spit at. So be thankful for migrant workers, prostitutes, and homeless street people.

Always remember that if everyone like you were economically secure and socially privileged like us, there would be no one left to fill all those boring, dangerous, low-paid jobs in our economy. And no one to fight our wars for us, or blindly follow orders in our totalitarian corporate institutions. And certainly no one to meekly go to their grave without having lived a full and creative life. So please, keep up the good work!

You also probably don't have the same greedy, compulsive drive to possess wealth, power, and prestige that we have. And even though you may sincerely want to change the way you live, you're also afraid of the very change you desire, thus keeping you and others like you in a nervous state of limbo. So you go through life mechanically playing your assigned social role, terrified what others would think should you ever dare to "break out of the mold."

Naturally, we try to play you off against each other whenever it suits our purposes: high-waged workers against low-waged, unionized against non-unionized, Black against White, male against female, American workers against Japanese against Mexican against.... We continually push your wages down by invoking "foreign competition," "the law of supply and demand," "national security," or "the bloated federal deficit." We throw you on the unemployed scrap heap if you step out of line or jeopardize our profits. And to give you an occasional break from the monotony of our daily economic blackmail, we allow you to participate in our stage-managed electoral shell games, better known to you ordinary folks as "elections." Happily, you haven't a clue as to what's really happening -- instead, you blame "Aliens," "Tree-hugging Environmentalists," "Niggers," "Jews," Welfare Queens," and countless others for your troubled situation.

We're also very pleased that many of you still embrace the "work ethic," even though most jobs in our economy degrade the environment, undermine your physical and emotional health, and basically suck your one and only life right out of you. We obviously don't know much about work, but we're sure glad you do!

Of course, life could be different. Society could be intelligently organized to meet the real needs of the general population. You and others like you could collectively fight to free yourselves from our domination. But you don't know that. In fact, you can't even imagine that another way of life is possible. And that's probably the greatest, most significant achievement of our system -- robbing you of your imagination, your creativity, your ability to think and act for yourself.

So we'd truly like to thank you from the bottom of our heartless hearts. Your loyal sacrifice makes possible our corrupt luxury; your work makes our system work. Thanks so much for "knowing your place" -- without even knowing it!

Author Anon

So everyone who likes that song has bad music taste all round?

Not all round although a possibility - everyone has a shite song that they like, its just most wouldn't admit to it, especially in a public arena like this.

If you deliberately set out to fail at something,and succeed, which have you done?

It's shit.

Rihanna is fit .

What he said ^

not proud of what the country has become

and had no choice being born here - proud nah just thankful i wasn't born in a 3rd world country

Yes you are - and people have already been charged with offences against the ministry of truth by conspiring to distribute non-govt approved material with the direct purpose of distressing people (at how woeful their govt are) and alarming people (at how little there is they can do about it).

Indeed, it kinda reminds me of this incident last october...

We will not be silenced, say protesters after clash with police

CAMPAIGN groups will return to Liverpool city centre this weekend despite clashing with police and claiming their “freedom of speech” had been violated last week.

Members of around 10 groups including Keep Our NHS Public, the Socialist Party, and Stop the War Coalition say peaceful leafleting ended in a “near riot” because of the police’s action.

They say literature has been confiscated on many previous occasions and they deny anyone broke the law on obstruction or public order grounds.

They are now planning to set out their campaign stalls again this Saturday and say they will not be silenced.

Merseyside police refuted the claims that officers breached any human rights, as two people were arrested on Church Street.

The force claims officers received complaints from the public and shop owners about campaigners causing an obstruction.

It is also alleged one campaigner verbally abused an officer.

But Socialist Party member Tony Aitman, who was present last Saturday morning, said: “A huge crowd of people were gathered as this was all happening, they were very shocked.

“Over the last few months, campaigners on issues as diverse as the war in Iraq, animal rights and defending the NHS have been the subject of police bullying, with many being cautioned and arrested.

“We were peaceful but the situation rapidly turned ugly when the police came

more here

Harassment is defined as "alarming the person or causing the person distress". The act can be used to impose injunctions on people, criminalising their previously lawful activities. As the injunctions use civil law to create criminal offences, they require a much lower standard of proof: hearsay evidence and untested and unproven allegations can be used to criminalise any action the police or the courts wish to stop.

In other words, if you hand out leaflets to passers-by which contain news that might alarm or distress them, that is now harassment.

These parts are in my opinion something everyone should be concerned about.

Effectively stopping flyers being handed out containing certain truths (whatever they may be) and making distribution of said flyers an offence.

Forums such as this will probably be next, some of the threads on here contain information which people who don't follow current events would possibly find distressing.

Are we stalkers?

Wasnt sure whether to put this here or the photography/terrorism thread

Photographers being arrested to seize evidence" claim at NUJ Photographers' Conference

The first NUJ Photographers’ Conference heard claims that police are using their powers of arrest to seize journalists’ material and circumvent the Special Procedure Material protections in the Police and Criminal Evidence Act.

Solicitor Mike Schwartz of Bindman and Partners told conference attendees that police were circumventing the Police and Criminal Evidence Act (PACE) Special Procedure Material safeguards, designed to protect journalistic material such as photographs and notebooks.

“Sadly, I think one of the dangers is that the police are using their powers to arrest journalists and photojournalists in order to get round the protections which are built into PACE which are supposed to protect journalistic material.”, he told the conference.

“The police are arresting journalists, seizing their equipment, treating them as suspects, looking at their photographs, taking copies, perhaps returning them to them, taking no further action often (but not always) and they’ve got, straight away, what they want.”

more here