Manchester United

[villa4europe]

You cant bring money in to a defence of jose, his spending is every bit as bad

Hes coming under more scrutiny than ever before, lost his magic media touch, i dont think that much has changed, his brand of football is still the same, madrid fans didnt like it now utd fans dont like it

he only has 1 player in that entire squad that performs consistently at a world class level and thats the keeper

[Xela]

12 hours ago, VillaChris said:

Mourinho's slowly morphing more and more into Wenger with each season. Still good in the cup competitions but dosen't really challenge for the league anymore and is starting to get knocked out of last 16 of the CL on a regular basis.

Even looked a bit like him today on the touchline with the white shirt and no tie look.

I think its a matter of when, not if Man Utd win the title under Mourinho. It won't be as stylish as Pep but he'll do it as he always does. 

His record across 4 leagues is exceptional and it dwarfs Wenger's achievements. 

[theboyangel]

Mourinho won’t finish next season as manager of ManUre.

the cracks are already beginning to show with dissent in the playing squad, with certain players unsettled and not getting on with him.

if ManUre aren’t challenging for the title next season (not being second 10+ points behind) then he’ll break and leave. 

[VillaChris]

4 hours ago, Xela said:

I think its a matter of when, not if Man Utd win the title under Mourinho. It won't be as stylish as Pep but he'll do it as he always does. 

His record across 4 leagues is exceptional and it dwarfs Wenger's achievements. 

We'll see.

One league title in last seven full seasons.

As it stands I think Liverpool are more likely to challenge Man. City next season given they've tightened up at the back since the new year.

[Mark Albrighton]

Yeah I don’t see Jose winning the league with Man Utd next season either.

[Xela]

13 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

We'll see.

One league title in last seven full seasons.

As it stands I think Liverpool are more likely to challenge Man. City next season given they've tightened up at the back since the new year.

He's won 6 titles in 3 countries since Wenger last won 1. If we are carrying on the Wenger comparison.

As for challenging City, I agree Liverpool do have a chance but they are far too inconsistent. Man Utd have already overtaken them under Jose, no doubt aided by money.

Like you said, we'll see but I think Man Utd will be much closer to Man City next year

[Dr_Pangloss]

I think Mourinho is massively under delivering there and he has spent fortunes on what is clearly a pretty average squad given their objectives. I don't think he will be around by the beginning of the season after next, he will get hounded out for not delivering.

For me Mourinho has declined as a manager, you can't argue with his career record, especially IMO what he did at Porto and Inter, two unbelievable achievements, but I think he is starting to look a bit old hat. 

[villa4europe]

im sure its VT that ive seen that discussed before, the idea that the same as players managers can peak and dip at certain ages and its entirely conceivable that they can lose their mojo

not saying he has fell from grace or isnt still at the top table (or that he couldnt refind it somewhere else) but jose is almost certainly not at his peak right now and i would never say its any of this too big a job for him nonsense

not sure where the answer is for him, dont think its PSG

[Stevo985]

18 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

im sure its VT that ive seen that discussed before, the idea that the same as players managers can peak and dip at certain ages and its entirely conceivable that they can lose their mojo

not saying he has fell from grace or isnt still at the top table (or that he couldnt refind it somewhere else) but jose is almost certainly not at his peak right now and i would never say its any of this too big a job for him nonsense

not sure where the answer is for him, dont think its PSG

I think a lot of that to do is with the game moving on. Mourinho's methods were very effective 10-15 years ago. But the game has moved on and adapted.
Same with Wenger. When he came to the country he was revolutionary. But the game moves on.

It's one of the reasons Ferguson was remarkable.

[theboyangel]

Fergie adapted by frequently changing his no.2 who also took most of the training. 

But totally agree that mourinho and Wenger have stagnated over the years. 

[VillaChris]

1 hour ago, villa4europe said:

im sure its VT that ive seen that discussed before, the idea that the same as players managers can peak and dip at certain ages and its entirely conceivable that they can lose their mojo

not saying he has fell from grace or isnt still at the top table (or that he couldnt refind it somewhere else) but jose is almost certainly not at his peak right now and i would never say its any of this too big a job for him nonsense

not sure where the answer is for him, dont think its PSG

Correct. Mourinho is still fantastic generally in one off sort of games (cups and league matches home and away to main rivals) but I don't think his approach works that well over a full league season anymore.

Just playing for that 0-0 at Anfield. Yes in isolation it was a fantastic result but the following week they went to Huddersfield and lost and so rendered it useless.

[Genie]

On 22/04/2018 at 18:25, Stevo985 said:

I think a lot of that to do is with the game moving on. Mourinho's methods were very effective 10-15 years ago. But the game has moved on and adapted.
Same with Wenger. When he came to the country he was revolutionary. But the game moves on.

It's one of the reasons Ferguson was remarkable.

I’m not sure about this tbh, people are very quick to label managers “dinosaurs” when they aren’t doing as well as they were slightly before.

People like Neil Warnock & Roy Hodgson... then they go quiet when the results start coming in. It was exactly the same with Steve Bruce.

Jose is one of the most successful managers of this era, his list of achievements across multiple countries is ridiculous. 

How are you able to tell that the game has moved on without him (but he himself cannot see it and adapt)?

On Man United and Jose I don’t think he’ll get close to winning the league next year either but after what United have been through after SAF I think they’ll stick with him if he keeps bringing in CL money and trophies.

Edited April 23, 2018 by Genie

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, Genie said:

I’m not sure about this tbh, people are very quick to label managers “dinosaurs” when they aren’t doing as well as they were slightly before.

People like Neil Warnock & Roy Hodgson... then they go quiet when the results start coming in. It was exactly the same with Steve Bruce.

Jose is one of the most successful managers of this era, his list of achievements across multiple countries is ridiculous. 

How are you able to tell that the game has moved on without him (but he himself cannot see it and adapt)?

On Man United and Jose I don’t think he’ll get close to winning the league next year either but after what United have been through after SAF I think they’ll stick with him if he keeps bringing in CL money and trophies.

I'm not calling him a dinosaur. he's cleary a very good manager.

But he's not at the level that he was in the noughties when he was the best in the world and I think a lot of that is to do with people catching up with him, both in style of play and off the pitch psychology.

[Genie]

I think it’s mainly to do with Man City having an embarrassment of riches, Jose has made Man United the best of the rest. Of course he also has a mega budget but he’s still done it and filled the trophy cabinet too. Not sure the game has passed him by when he’s managed this haul in 2 years.

Be interesting to see what happens in the summer. If the rumours that Man United were offering Pogba around were true I have a theory it was because United were financing some mega transfer, maybe Bale or Neymar for example. Don’t think they’d bust the bank for Ronaldo at this stage of his career.

[Stevo985]

12 minutes ago, Genie said:

I think it’s mainly to do with Man City having an embarrassment of riches, Jose has made Man United the best of the rest. Of course he also has a mega budget but he’s still done it and filled the trophy cabinet too. Not sure the game has passed him by when he’s managed this haul in 2 years.

Again, I haven't said the game has passed him by. I've said the game has moved on. As in moved on from where it was 15 years ago when he broke onto the scene.

[VillaChris]

1 hour ago, Genie said:

I think it’s mainly to do with Man City having an embarrassment of riches, Jose has made Man United the best of the rest. Of course he also has a mega budget but he’s still done it and filled the trophy cabinet too. Not sure the game has passed him by when he’s managed this haul in 2 years.

Be interesting to see what happens in the summer. If the rumours that Man United were offering Pogba around were true I have a theory it was because United were financing some mega transfer, maybe Bale or Neymar for example. Don’t think they’d bust the bank for Ronaldo at this stage of his career.

Other things though...that abysmal title defence from Chelsea. He was 16th in the league when they were sacked.

Also finished sixth last season in the league, these are all recent examples.

Let's not forget his history is generally to start off brilliantly at clubs and then tail off by the third season, Maybe it will be in reverse at Man. United.

[Genie]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

Again, I haven't said the game has passed him by. I've said the game has moved on. As in moved on from where it was 15 years ago when he broke onto the scene.

Isn’t it the same thing? You said the game has moved on and implied that he hasn’t.

Your post.

On 22/04/2018 at 18:25, Stevo985 said:

I think a lot of that to do is with the game moving on. Mourinho's methods were very effective 10-15 years ago. But the game has moved on and adapted.
Same with Wenger. When he came to the country he was revolutionary. But the game moves on.

It's one of the reasons Ferguson was remarkable.

He’s a bit of an idiot and I think he’s not the same man as he was but his record is absolutely incredible, even the last 3 or 4 years. 

[Stevo985]

9 hours ago, Genie said:

Isn’t it the same thing? You said the game has moved on and implied that he hasn’t.

Your post.

He’s a bit of an idiot and I think he’s not the same man as he was but his record is absolutely incredible, even the last 3 or 4 years. 

No it's not the same thing.

What I'm saying is the game has changed since Mourinho first broke through and was, imo, the best manager in the world at the time. So where as he was revolutionary at the time in terms of his style of play and off the field psychology with players and the media, others have adapted and caught him up since then so that, whilst still remaining a very good manager, he is not quite the elite manager he once was.

 

What you're implying I said is that the game has passed him by, he's no longer any good and that he's a dinosaur.

 

It's the same discussion with Wenger. Wenger is still a very good manager. But when he arrived he revolutionised English football. Since then everybody else has caught him up and he's no longer at the level he was as a result. He hasn't changed or got worse, the game has moved on so that his methods aren't quite as effective.

 

The comparison with Ferguson is that despite th egame changing over the decades he was in charge, he kept himself at the very pinnacle of managers, which Mourinho and Wenger haven't done, imo

[Genie]

Ok fair enough. It reads like you’re suggesting he is no longer effective.

Quote

I think a lot of that to do is with the game moving on. Mourinho's methods were very effective 10-15 years ago. But the game has moved on and adapted.

 

[Zatman]

A frontline consisting of Lukaku, Sanchez, Martial, Rashford, Mata are on paper on a par with other attacks in England but they have no direction on the pitch or except Lukaku ever look like scoring

United need major changes