Stevo985 Posted July 19, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted July 19, 2013 Don't shoot me, but Spurs have always kinda been my second team (well tied with Everton maybe). They're my brother's club and we always rooted for each other. But the way some of them have been going on here and the way the club has presumably been taking the piss out of us, they've gone down a bit in my estimation. If I had a gun, I'd shoot you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted July 19, 2013 Moderator Share Posted July 19, 2013 Ah cock, why did I word it like that when it wasn't what I was trying to say at all, merely a throwaway line And now as is usual it will deflect from the thing I was saying all along. In a nutshell Levy's frugality has cost Spurs and I believe it quite blatantly and spectacularly cost them CL last season. What I hamfistedly was trying to say there was that they're now shopping in a different market as a result of that failure. So they can't even go for the top players. Not that they'd actually ... you (hopefully) know what I mean My stupid throwaway line changed the argument. Those players were players Levy didn't manage to buy through his stinginess. I was not saying they had turned him down. Ignore that one line in the many I've posted. We will put it down to the heat my friend. So... moving on, Levy's frugality and it costing Spurs. I think that is a really interesting one because I think a convincing argument could be made either way on that one. On the one hand you could say his frugality cost them last season on the other you could say his frugality has put them in a position from which they can realistically challenge (I don't think we were ever realistic challengers) the top 4 in a sustained way. You could argue, as you've done that he cost them by not funding a striker in January and there is some merit to that, had they been able to land right then it is I think at least fair to say they wouldn't have dropped as many points as they did. Although I do think it is too simplistic to say that they fell away for want of a striker, the same as it would be too simplistic to say we failed to hold on to 4th because we signed Heskey. There are always other factors, with us it was the O'Neill March burn out and I'm sure, if I were a Spurs fan I'd point in the direction of other factors as well. Add to that the fact we don't actually no for certain that a, AVB wanted a striker and b, their failure to land one was due to Levy I think it is a bit of a stretch to blame their failure to land 4th on him or his frugality. As for this summer, their approach to the market is slightly schizophrenic particularly in terms of their now definite pursuit of a striker. I would though argue it very much remains to be seen if it ends up costing them. I think it is reasonable to assume they were the club (or one of the clubs) talking to Villa before he moved to Athletic and they may or may not have failed to complete the deal due to finances. It could though just as easily be that Villa was always either a back up or an icing on the cake style signing behind a top target like Benteke or the Brazilian chap. There are many twists and turns in the market this summer yet so we will have to wait and see if they end up missing out or if he ends up doing rather well for them. On a wider discussion on his approach or his frugality I would argue it has helped transform Spurs from perennial joke club of the later 90's into a genuine top 4 competitor and all without sending their debt spinning out of control as happened to Leeds and to a lesser extend happened or was happening to us. They are signing bigger and bigger commercial deals and they are seemingly funding a new stadium which will much as has happened with Arsenal, likely transform their income in the years that follow. They are currently hamstrung by their capacity and it is almost a certainty that their match day revenue will rocket as and when they get the new ground. It is an absolutely certainty that Levy has made mistakes, plenty of them and very often they've been related to personnel such as managers or DoF and some of them such as the manner of Martin Jol's departure were pretty bad. But he is a very effective chairman and although probably a horrible person to do business with has taken the club forward and achieved a degree of success. I find it almost impossible to talk about him and Spurs without drawing comparisons with Villa which I'm loath to do but they have a certain merit. Compare their tight control of their wage expenditure to ours for example, I know the figures aren't 100% comparable because they are made up in different ways but their wage percentage to turnover has always been far more sensible. Then compare Levy's removal of Redknapp and for that matter Jol, two successful managers yet we didn't show the same decisiveness with O'Neill that fateful summer that we should have done. And as you know that isn't me using the benefit of hindsight I was saying it at the time. Is there not a small part of you that wishes Levy had been running the show here for Lerner these last 7 years? Because there is a big part of me that does even though I suspect if I met the guy I'd feel an instant need for a shower and country air. Levy isn't seemingly likeable, he isn't seemingly very personable and doesn't treat people as well as he perhaps should and he is careful with the cash spending it as if it were his own. But for me, he is one of the best at his job in the league and I'd have loved to have him here even if he perhaps doesn't have a reflection when he looks in a mirror. So ultimately, with a fair few proviso's, yes perhaps he contributed to them not getting CL football this season but I certainly wouldn't put all the blame at his door and neither would I say he has cost them this summer, yet. Anyway... I shall let people get back to disliking Spurs fans because I think we almost all agree on that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted July 19, 2013 Moderator Share Posted July 19, 2013 Don't shoot me, but Spurs have always kinda been my second team (well tied with Everton maybe). They're my brother's club and we always rooted for each other. But the way some of them have been going on here and the way the club has presumably been taking the piss out of us, they've gone down a bit in my estimation. If I had a gun, I'd shoot you Yes but we established you are a seriel killer and one that only targets people in the park behind your house. So John Gregory you pose no immediate threat to Keyblade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Working in London it's mostly Spurs or Arsenal fans. Talking football is lots more fun with the Arsenal fans than Tottenham. The gunners fans mostly take the piss out of themselves but for the Spurs fans it's always super serious and super competitive. "Spurs are signing this player, Spurs are signing that player" "Spurs are going to do X Y & Z this season!" etc etc Then they go deathly quiet when missing out on Champions League again. I think it is a bit like having a form of small man syndrome due to being in Arsenal's shadow for so long. sound a lot like Liverpool fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted July 19, 2013 Moderator Share Posted July 19, 2013 Yeah good post Trent and thanks for moving past my stupid line I think it is worth clarifying again that I didn't say he's a bad chairman either, just that he had made those big mistakes. He has definitely put Spurs in the position they're in now with his stewardship (and ENIC's money ...). The discussion then becomes 'What next?'. There is a line of thinking that says in order for Spurs to become properly competitive (as in league winningly competitive) Levy in his current guise would become a weight around their necks. In other words while he has gotten them to where they are now, his M.O. is not one of speculation to accumulate and in order to make the next step (which as we know is a huge step) Spurs; or he; would have to change that mentality or at the very least stop joeopardising deals and quibbling over relative pennies. I'm not sure Levy would be able to do that, simply because he has never had to do that and consequently I've never seen him do it. In hindsight, one of Lerner's biggest mistakes was that he did speculate on CL football in order to accumulate. So in one way, Lerner has already shown a quality in his leadership that Levy will have to show soon if Spurs are to avoid stagnating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted July 19, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted July 19, 2013 For me they are Londons second club, right behind Arsenal. I don't like them down to the fact they are media darlings and always seem to be linked to our players, their fans are also a bit arrogant when justifying these moves. Levy done a good job with their profile and their income streams, for me that's to be admired, despite him seeming to a bit of a bellend. They are a similar club to us and without the big money foreigners who throw money at their clubs, city and Chelsea, they would have been top 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted July 19, 2013 Moderator Share Posted July 19, 2013 Nah, Chelsea may be rotten to the core and Johnny come latelies, but they've won more significant stuff in the past decade than Spurs have ever won. Spurs have never ever been as good as Chelsea have been under Abramovich or even from when Harding joined the board. So not only are Chelsea now above them in honours but they've done it more recently and they're more relevant. It stinks how they did it, but they have done it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimzk5 Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 (edited) we also got Wayne Routledge for a steal but manager wouldnt use him. Look at him now he is playing regularly for one of leagues most entertaining teams Wouldn't have got in our side t the time though. maybe but we still criminally underused him. he was an option from the bench or could have played a few games to rest Young up. pity the manager wasnt fond of either same could be said of Maloney actually If you look at routledge`s career this is the most time he has spent at a club, he came to us after loan spells at fulham, palace, portsmouth, had 12 months with us where he looked fairly ordinary, then went to qpr (twice) and newcastle before ending up at swansea. He really wasn't ready to be playing every week for us. Edited July 19, 2013 by Jimzk5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 19, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted July 19, 2013 Yeah there's no way Tottenham are London's second club. Chelsea weren't far off before Abramovich. Sine then they've blown them out of the water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted July 19, 2013 Moderator Share Posted July 19, 2013 Yeah good post Trent and thanks for moving past my stupid line I think it is worth clarifying again that I didn't say he's a bad chairman either, just that he had made those big mistakes. He has definitely put Spurs in the position they're in now with his stewardship (and ENIC's money ...). The discussion then becomes 'What next?'. There is a line of thinking that says in order for Spurs to become properly competitive (as in league winningly competitive) Levy in his current guise would become a weight around their necks. In other words while he has gotten them to where they are now, his M.O. is not one of speculation to accumulate and in order to make the next step (which as we know is a huge step) Spurs; or he; would have to change that mentality or at the very least stop joeopardising deals and quibbling over relative pennies. I'm not sure Levy would be able to do that, simply because he has never had to do that and consequently I've never seen him do it. In hindsight, one of Lerner's biggest mistakes was that he did speculate on CL football in order to accumulate. So in one way, Lerner has already shown a quality in his leadership that Levy will have to show soon if Spurs are to avoid stagnating. Its okay mate I just put it down to you being getting a bit too much sun my friend. And yes I realise you didn't say he was a bad chairman and you are right that they are at a bit of a cross roads in terms of where they go now. At risk of sounding like a broken record though I don't agree that he has effectively taken them as far as he can because of his approach. It is rather hard to know exactly what sums are at stake but on the Brazilian striker I think I read Spurs offered £10m and they wanted double that and that isn't pennies. As I said previously, they are careful with money in terms of fee's and wages and that makes them sustainable. I just don't believe teams like Spurs can realistically challenge for the title in a PL dominated by the wealth of Man Utd, Man City and Chelsea and Arsenal could well soon join that little group as their finances rebalance. I just don't think Levy or anyone else can by gambling a little more challenge that group or make a play for anything more than top 4. The best chance they or anyone has is through sustainable longer term growth and progression to give them an ever increasing platform to push on, well that or an Arab billionaire. Fine line between control and being tight or enjoying the control a little too much, there are certain things that suggest it might be the later. On the final point in relation to Lerner and leadership, I will leave that one I think but safe to say I think you already know I won't agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 detest that club, their fans a large majority are ar$eh0le$! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 AVB to Barca? heh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Don't shoot me, but Spurs have always kinda been my second team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Spurs are a word removed team with word removed fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oaks Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Well that was a bit tetchy. Oh well... Spurs can well and truly shove off with their arrogant gobby fans, and the cockney media can jolly jog on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Hope we finish above them next season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted July 19, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted July 19, 2013 They do seem to be cursed with some of the most condescendingly arrogant fans around. Whats all the more galling is I'm buggered if I know what they've got to be condescending or arrogant about.That, amongst various other things, all just adds to why they are one of the most unlikable teams in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Well they ballsed that up didn't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 I don't think the Benteke deal was ever truly 'on'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Don't shoot me, but Spurs have always kinda been my second team (well tied with Everton maybe). They're my brother's club and we always rooted for each other. But the way some of them have been going on here and the way the club has presumably been taking the piss out of us, they've gone down a bit in my estimation. I like spurs too. Always thought they played good football and i normally go to the lane 3 or 4 times a year as I have three friends that are spurs ST holders who live in brum and there is usually a spare ticket as all of them cant always go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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