Spurs

[BOF]

On the basis that we can only know from what we read and hear around the place, because we're not privvy to their inner-workings. The most recent examples would be their alleged dawdling over David Villa and then there's the long drawn out saga of them trying to sign Leandro Damiao. They're the two that pop into my head.

As a comparison, some Villa fans criticised our chairman for not investing more in January aswell, when we looked like we needed it. The fact there's no guarantee shouldn't preclude you from rolling the dice otherwise you'd never buy anyone. Spurs' eventual decline vindicates the stance that they should have rolled that dice. Of course it mightn't have worked, Asprilla style, but then it might have too, Carew & Young style. What we do know is that what they ended up doing resulted in an Asprilla-style collapse. And this isn't hindsight talking. They were screaming for a striker at the time too. I will concede that I am assuming it was Levy who blocked any deals though, because of his very frequent frugality and the imminent stadium payments.

[LondonLax]

They have had a few players reject them just this summer.

Every window they go close to signing a top striker but always seem to fall short.

[AVFCforever1991]

Adebayor was a top striker, look at his first season for Spuds. Was in great form, 17 goals and 11 assist I think.

He's just way too inconsistent...

Edited July 19, 2013 by AVFCforever1991

[Zatman]

 

 

Just spending money when in position of strength doesn't automatically guarantee maintaining or improving form, remember Asprilla?

 

I remember Heskey 

[TrentVilla]

The most recent examples would be their alleged dawdling over David Villa and then there's the long drawn out saga of them trying to sign Leandro Damiao. They're the two that pop into my head.

As a comparison, some Villa fans criticised our chairman for not investing more in January aswell, when we looked like we needed it. The fact there's no guarantee shouldn't preclude you from rolling the dice otherwise you'd never buy anyone. Spurs' eventual decline vindicates the stance that they should have rolled that dice. Of course it mightn't have worked, Asprilla style, but then it might have too, Carew & Young style. What we do know is that what they ended up doing resulted in an Asprilla-style collapse. And this isn't hindsight talking. They were screaming for a striker at the time too. I will concede that I am assuming it was Levy who blocked any deals though, because of his very frequent frugality and the imminent stadium payments.

 

David Villa certainly didn't turn them down, in fact seemingly he was desperate to join a yet unnamed PL club but they didn't conclude the deal for reasons unknown. That certainly isn't an example of a player rejecting them. As for Damiao, he didn't turn them down either they bid and it was turned down by his club.

 

I've never said that there being no guarantee should preclude you rolling the dice, in fact I've argued quite the opposite in relation to our position in January.

 

You were saying it was Levy's fault they didn't buy a striker in CL and had they done so they would have got CL. That as you are now seemingly accepting isn't a forgone conclusion, had you said they would have stood a better chance I'd have agreed with you.

 

 

 

Just spending money when in position of strength doesn't automatically guarantee maintaining or improving form, remember Asprilla?

 

I remember Heskey 

 

 

Quite.

 

Although thankfully even O'Neill wasn't foolish enough to pay £20m for him.

[BOF]

Spurs bidding under a player's value (Damiao) and the bid being rejected is Levy's fault though. So that one is his fault. Just like if they did want Benteke and refused to meet our valuation, that would be Levy's fault. Sure, Levy might decide the player isn't worth it, but that's his opinion based on his set of financial values. And Spurs will live and die by those values.

You were saying it was Levy's fault they didn't buy a striker in CL and had they done so they would have got CL. That as you are now seemingly accepting isn't a forgone conclusion, had you said they would have stood a better chance I'd have agreed with you.

You're dealing in absolutes here though. You're basically saying that because I can't 100% guarantee it would've happened then I can't really say what I was saying. You still got the basic jist of my point though. If you want I'll say Spurs would have been 90% certain of CL had they bought a striker. Not 100%, but certainly far far more than 50-50. Your Asprilla scenario is far more of a long shot than the norm would be of buying a £20m striker.

[TrentVilla]

That is an entirely different point BOF, again had you said that I wouldn't have disagreed but you didn't.

 

You said players were turning them down because they missed out the CL and laid the blame for that purely at the door of Levy for not buying a striker in Jan, then when I asked which players you stated two players who haven't seemingly turned them down.

 

I'm certainly not dealing absolutes, there is no such thing when signing a player, that is my very point.

[LondonLax]

Trent, why do you not believe the club Villa was talking about was Tottenham?

He was heavily linked there before moving to athletico and making his statement about the premier league club dragging their heels.

[BOF]

Wow there Trent! My opening post was that they missed out on CL because of Levy not buying a striker in January. You took issue with how definitively I believed that. Citing Asprilla. So I tweaked it for you to say that in all probability when spending £20m on a striker you'll probably gain from that 9 times out of 10. We're both dealing in hypotheticals but it's not unreasonable to assume that buying better players will normally improve your team. Otherwise people can't criticise Lerner's January dealings either. Can't have it both ways.

You've since shown that Levy's bid for Leandro, for one, was turned down. That's Levy's fault. I never said players turned him down. I said he wouldn't buy them. Huge difference.

[TrentVilla]

Trent, why do you not believe the club Villa was talking about was Tottenham?

He was heavily linked there before moving to athletico and making his statement about the premier league club dragging their heels.

 

I don't, I've not suggested it wasn't Spurs that was never my point.

 

We don't know for certain it was Spurs but it is highly likely that it was.

 

My point was that Villa hadn't turned them (or anyone) down as was suggested.

[TrentVilla]

 

 

I never said players turned him down. I said he wouldn't buy them. Huge difference.

 

Sorry BOF but yes you did.

 

That failure to invest has cost them far far more than the £20m it would have cost. Arsenal's good run would have been in vain and Spurs would be buying much better players than are now rejecting them.

 

The criticism over his failure to complete deals came later, is a totally different point and one which is perhaps valid.

 

But you did previously say players are turning them down, it is right there in bold.

 

As I've shown the two examples of players that turned them down that you provided didn't turn them down.

[BOF]

Ah cock, why did I word it like that when it wasn't what I was trying to say at all, merely a throwaway line And now as is usual it will deflect from the thing I was saying all along. In a nutshell Levy's frugality has cost Spurs and I believe it quite blatantly and spectacularly cost them CL last season. What I hamfistedly was trying to say there was that they're now shopping in a different market as a result of that failure. So they can't even go for the top players. Not that they'd actually ... you (hopefully) know what I mean

My stupid throwaway line changed the argument. Those players were players Levy didn't manage to buy through his stinginess. I was not saying they had turned him down. Ignore that one line in the many I've posted.

[Zatman]

I personally dont think Villa wanted to come to England at all and is happy in Spain

[AVFCforever1991]

He made the right decision methinks...

Edited July 19, 2013 by AVFCforever1991

[Voinjama]

Don't mind the club. Can't stand the fans. I find their insecurity about how 'big' they are turns into arrogance.

 

Spurs have won this and this. We finished fourth you know! We are a big club. Bigger than you etc etc.

 

Then you mention how Arsenal can be shit for half a season and still finish above them, and they really get upset.

 

Muppets.

 

Still, I don't mind the club itself.

 

 

This is exactly 100% what I think too. It's not the club itself, it's the arrogance of the Spurs fans that annoys me. The best way to silence is mention that they have not come ahead of Arsenal since 1995 or that they are the 3rd club of London, these 2 things really wind them up.

[Stevo985]

If I meet a Spurs fan (and it's happened a few times, I have 2 very good friends who are Spurs fans), I just say something like

 

"I'm really sorry, but I REALLY hate Spurs"

 

It's met with a huge "whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy???"

 

And it seems to annoy them even more when I don't give a reason

[LondonLax]

Working in London it's mostly Spurs or Arsenal fans. Talking football is lots more fun with the Arsenal fans than Tottenham.

The gunners fans mostly take the piss out of themselves but for the Spurs fans it's always super serious and super competitive. "Spurs are signing this player, Spurs are signing that player" "Spurs are going to do X Y & Z this season!" etc etc Then they go deathly quiet when missing out on Champions League again.

I think it is a bit like having a form of small man syndrome due to being in Arsenal's shadow for so long.

[BOF]

I think it is a bit like having a form of small man syndrome due to being in Arsenal's shadow for so long.

That's exactly what it is. Arsenal fans are comfortable with what their club is. Because it has been that for so long. Spurs are trying to become that but they aren't yet. And their fans know it, so anyone that suggests Spurs are late to the party and not on the list gets a curt response.

[Keyblade]

Don't shoot me, but Spurs have always kinda been my second team (well tied with Everton maybe). They're my brother's club and we always rooted for each other. But the way some of them have been going on here and the way the club has presumably been taking the piss out of us, they've gone down a bit in my estimation.

[Voinjama]

I think deep down Spurs fans know they are not at Arsenals level and probably never have been. But mention Chelsea are bigger and better than them too really riles them. I know there is the argument that Chelsea are a new club and only winning trophies because of a rich owner blah blah, and they are still not big. But you can't ignore a Champions League trophy, 3 league titles, 5 fa cups, 2 league cups and a europa league this century (2000 onwards).

 

Spurs are the 3rd club of London and I have thought since 2012. There comes a point in time where you have credit Chelseas trophy haul as whether you like it or not, it is as much part of their history as Spurs golden side of the early 60s, or Villas successful side of the early 80s.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Voinjama